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Intergalactic Summit

 
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"You don't quote much Scripture..."

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Author
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#181 - 2013-09-30 23:46:39 UTC
My apologies for returning to an old thread. I had a conversation with a kirjuun today and had thought it worth sharing.

Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic maintains several offices in Khanid space, to aid in collaborative projects - we have a very active outreach program that is doing wonderful work on palliative care there. I was visiting them today, and had a chance to talk with some of my friends who have lived there for several years now. In our discussion, she had commented that she had read this thead and was confused by it. Specifically, she told me that "Lai Dai is Lai Dai, no matter who holds the lease."

I think that she's right. Our Corporations are our home, and these exist anywhere. Provided that we hold the sovereign right to these corporations, we exist happily amongst the Amarr, the Minmatar - even the Gallentine Empire.

The State exists to ensure that sovereignty, that free action of its Corporations. Should another Empire ensure that freedom in a manner we find suitable, I see no reason it could not result in a peaceful, happy co-operation, as it already does in some limited form. Lai Dai is Lai Dai, no matter who holds the lease. Our culture is strong enough to withstand the predation of outsiders with good cheer.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#182 - 2013-10-01 03:57:04 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
My apologies for returning to an old thread. I had a conversation with a kirjuun today and had thought it worth sharing.

Lai Dai Research Biomedical and Cybernetic maintains several offices in Khanid space, to aid in collaborative projects - we have a very active outreach program that is doing wonderful work on palliative care there. I was visiting them today, and had a chance to talk with some of my friends who have lived there for several years now. In our discussion, she had commented that she had read this thead and was confused by it. Specifically, she told me that "Lai Dai is Lai Dai, no matter who holds the lease."

I think that she's right. Our Corporations are our home, and these exist anywhere. Provided that we hold the sovereign right to these corporations, we exist happily amongst the Amarr, the Minmatar - even the Gallentine Empire.

The State exists to ensure that sovereignty, that free action of its Corporations. Should another Empire ensure that freedom in a manner we find suitable, I see no reason it could not result in a peaceful, happy co-operation, as it already does in some limited form. Lai Dai is Lai Dai, no matter who holds the lease. Our culture is strong enough to withstand the predation of outsiders with good cheer.



I've always thought of culture as a sort of double-edged sword, as it were. I think that isn't a majority opinion anywhere, but it tends to be better received by the Empire. The good things about culture deal with identity and unity. There are things that are very good about culture, especially that we move forward with good ideas. Culture also has a dark side though. Calcification. In the end, I think everyone needs to always step back and examine their culture and their methods.

One of the reasons I find the Scriptures so enlightening is that they are constantly undergoing scrutiny. There are similarly examine documents, usually legal texts, but I don't think any single set of documents has ever gone scrutinized so long without losing much of the original message. While many of our legal codes have been changed throughout the years, Scriptural doctrine tends to be very basic and underlines many key points that are necessary for any group of people. Following leadership, trusting the group to examine your decisions, to be charitable and humble. Time and again, these are the skills and codes that have formed the moral basis of our society. To this day, they've essentially born all of our good decisions. Failure to follow them is the cause of almost all of our missteps.

I think that's unique in the universe in that length of time. Strict adherence to a Scriptural doctrine simply produces good people.

However, we shouldn't be vainglorious about that knowledge. Our culture has not been static at all; we've often brought great infusions of new ideas from peoples we have taken into the fold. Sometimes it seems we are very megalithic, but this isn't true. While I think Caldari citizenship is very heavily based on ideas of state and code, ours is mostly based on a method of behavior and religion. There really hasn't been any reason to worry about cross-integration of our cultures because they aren't necessarily antithetical.

Take, for example, our project. We've had excellent success with our slavery education program by following some very theoretical books I returned with from Caldari space. The Scriptures don't mention in detail precisely how much work a person must do to maximize efficiency, but the Caldari have calculated this to a science. They show precisely how much recreation is required to keep a laborer from becoming mental complacent or suffering a breakdown. Best of all, they like to include education in their calculations, and know precisely how much education one can absorb and in what bouts before the information begins to blur.

The effect of implementing this has been remarkable. It produces slaves who have a clear drive towards citizenship and cultural integration. Something I think would be quite useful to anyone working with laborers, but particularly in our case, where our laborers are working towards eventual citizenship within the Empire.

Is introducing Caldari labor practices antithetical to our culture? No, especially since it's worked so well to spread the faith. Early estimates from the domestic program have showed a sharp reduction in recidivism among released slaves. The work, like Scripture, stands on its own. It works, and so I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing to incorporate into our practices.

Everything fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. God has bits of knowledge hidden everywhere that become necessary to find. One of two things will happen. Either we will all accept each others' universally good ideas, cast by the wayside the bad ideas, and begin to grow closer as empires, or an empire might refuse to take any lessons from another culture. I can guarantee, we are one culture that has no qualms about assimilating other peoples and strengthening them with the tenets of our Scriptures. Whether or not you initially take our methods under advisement, even my traditional people are only too happy to use those methods to better the people. I've enjoyed the rocket technology the Khanid brought back immensely.

That Reclaiming isn't something to be afraid of. One of the reasons that I believe the Reclaiming is inevitable if we continue to preach and follow the Word of God is because its system of moral behavior irons out the bottom. Used correctly, we eliminate major problems that other empires face. While our political decisions may not be universally popular, the Scriptures produce unparalleled cohesion and discipline. It trims the fat from human existence, priming the soul for enlightenment.

It tends to catch on, is all I am saying.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#183 - 2013-10-01 11:43:38 UTC
Perhaps it will take an over-zealous Amarrian missionary strung by his ankles over a lamp post with his throat slit by a blue collar Caldari lynch mob to disabuse the notions that the State is founded upon the principles of cultural or religious tolerance.

I certainly feel no qualms with throwing the Scriptures upon the very same fires the Federation's books were tossed if it should ever become necessary to do so.

What need have I for God?

My faith is placed in my fellow citizen.

My religion is civic duty.

My immortality is granted by the continued existence of the State.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Kaid Hayden
Seven Stars Search and Rescue
#184 - 2013-10-01 11:56:54 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

I certainly feel no qualms with throwing the Scriptures upon the very same fires the Federation's books were tossed if it should ever become necessary to do so.


Maybe there's also a library instead of a pyre? There's a practical solution for everything, really.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#185 - 2013-10-01 17:31:15 UTC
Kaid Hayden wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:

I certainly feel no qualms with throwing the Scriptures upon the very same fires the Federation's books were tossed if it should ever become necessary to do so.


Maybe there's also a library instead of a pyre? There's a practical solution for everything, really.


Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#186 - 2013-10-01 17:43:53 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.


Thank you, I certainly agree! We aren't a violent people by nature, only when we are propelled to those acts by the situation at hand. Trade, in general, brings greater prosperity.

I've tried to read the Scriptures - I was once gifted a 26-volume set of the more seminal works and have tried several times. I just can't seem to follow the language that's used.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#187 - 2013-10-01 18:10:21 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:


Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.


Then you are no student of history, for I still remember Waschi, and frankly the Intaki did more for the State and the Caldari people than the Amarr ever have.

I would also call into account the fact that you baseline openly within corporate enclaves within the State as extremely dubious at best. I'd say openly preaching in non-SCC designated zones of Caldari corporate territories as nothing more than the promotion of dissent and since SOP both with base-lining capsuleers and foreigners promulgating dissent in a corporate enclave is arrest and prosecution or simply the expedience of a bullet to the head by corporate military units am I now to take your word as truth when you have openly and in public flaunted your complete disregard for corporate law and your utter disrespect for your nominal hosts in the State?

I might see it as believable in the case of a former Caldari corporate-citizen who operates under SCC mandate to be given lee-way by the corporate authorities but as far as I'm concerned you've just incriminated yourself as a foreign provocateur whose complete and open acknowledgement of their breach of protocol regarding State corporate law viz-a-viz the SCC and CONCORD makes you nothing more than a criminal in my view.

I suppose this is where you say you supposedly have connections in high places perhaps?

I will say then there is no need for further discussion for then you must be nothing more than quite the con-man weaving a rather rich tapestry of bullshit to me.

Have a nice day.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#188 - 2013-10-01 18:53:13 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.


Then you are no student of history, for I still remember Waschi, and frankly the Intaki did more for the State and the Caldari people than the Amarr ever have.

I would also call into account the fact that you baseline openly within corporate enclaves within the State as extremely dubious at best. I'd say openly preaching in non-SCC designated zones of Caldari corporate territories as nothing more than the promotion of dissent and since SOP both with base-lining capsuleers and foreigners promulgating dissent in a corporate enclave is arrest and prosecution or simply the expedience of a bullet to the head by corporate military units am I now to take your word as truth when you have openly and in public flaunted your complete disregard for corporate law and your utter disrespect for your nominal hosts in the State?

I might see it as believable in the case of a former Caldari corporate-citizen who operates under SCC mandate to be given lee-way by the corporate authorities but as far as I'm concerned you've just incriminated yourself as a foreign provocateur whose complete and open acknowledgement of their breach of protocol regarding State corporate law viz-a-viz the SCC and CONCORD makes you nothing more than a criminal in my view.

I suppose this is where you say you supposedly have connections in high places perhaps?

I will say then there is no need for further discussion for then you must be nothing more than quite the con-man weaving a rather rich tapestry of bullshit to me.

Have a nice day.



I suppose that depends heavily on whether you believe the Scriptures are inimical with Caldari day-to-day life. As my lawyers explained to me, subversion would rely on the direct supposition that the Caldari government must be directly overthrown or altered. As that isn't part of my opening sermons, my religious message has fallen well within the law.

In the end, the Achura are to thank, primarily. They required legal easements for their spiritual growth and establishment, and thus I have registered through them.

Though I am regularly audited by the Caldari state, it is not illegal to disseminate information of a spiritual nature in your territory. As long as I do not directly advocate a political agenda, the Caldari State has no way to arbitrarily differentiate my message. If you'd like more information about our legal status in the Caldari State, you can always contact our attorneys there.

I actually quite enjoy my time in Caldari space. Because of the legal situation, it's probably the one place in space where inhibiting spiritual learning and discourse will spark an internal diplomatic incident. Since, as you've probably, seen, civil disobediance and violent subversion are not part of my ministry, I have every right to spread the Word in your space.

One thing I've learned the value of in this ministry are excellent legal services. They are worth more than any armor we've ever developed. If you'd like to expend some effort testing my legal representation, they have case materials already prepared in every system of every space where CONCORD maintains high security. Believe me, they are very good.

If not, all the better! We both save resources. Perhaps you would like some of our copies of relevent Scriptural material? In the process of combing them for details, you may learn something useful about the nature of fear. How it is a barrier to your personal spiritual health and progress, and the root of all unecessary conflict. I always welcome such scrutiny. To scrutinize, you have to read. Thoroughly.

Either way, I am not particular.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#189 - 2013-10-01 18:55:45 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.


Thank you, I certainly agree! We aren't a violent people by nature, only when we are propelled to those acts by the situation at hand. Trade, in general, brings greater prosperity.

I've tried to read the Scriptures - I was once gifted a 26-volume set of the more seminal works and have tried several times. I just can't seem to follow the language that's used.


Please, get in touch with me then! I love personal ministry, and I could answer any questions you might have. You are not the only one to have trouble with the language. Great staffs of theologians busily read away, trying to see if we've translated through variations of the language correctly. Teaching is my joy and I would very much like to clarify any issues you may be having and to give your spiritual growth a boost.

There is nothing to be lost in the pursuit of knowledge!

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#190 - 2013-10-01 19:33:42 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:


Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.


Then you are no student of history, for I still remember Waschi, and frankly the Intaki did more for the State and the Caldari people than the Amarr ever have.

I would also call into account the fact that you baseline openly within corporate enclaves within the State as extremely dubious at best. I'd say openly preaching in non-SCC designated zones of Caldari corporate territories as nothing more than the promotion of dissent and since SOP both with base-lining capsuleers and foreigners promulgating dissent in a corporate enclave is arrest and prosecution or simply the expedience of a bullet to the head by corporate military units am I now to take your word as truth when you have openly and in public flaunted your complete disregard for corporate law and your utter disrespect for your nominal hosts in the State?

I might see it as believable in the case of a former Caldari corporate-citizen who operates under SCC mandate to be given lee-way by the corporate authorities but as far as I'm concerned you've just incriminated yourself as a foreign provocateur whose complete and open acknowledgement of their breach of protocol regarding State corporate law viz-a-viz the SCC and CONCORD makes you nothing more than a criminal in my view.

I suppose this is where you say you supposedly have connections in high places perhaps?

I will say then there is no need for further discussion for then you must be nothing more than quite the con-man weaving a rather rich tapestry of bullshit to me.

Have a nice day.



I suppose that depends heavily on whether you believe the Scriptures are inimical with Caldari day-to-day life. As my lawyers explained to me, subversion would rely on the direct supposition that the Caldari government must be directly overthrown or altered. As that isn't part of my opening sermons, my religious message has fallen well within the law.

In the end, the Achura are to thank, primarily. They required legal easements for their spiritual growth and establishment, and thus I have registered through them.

Though I am regularly audited by the Caldari state, it is not illegal to disseminate information of a spiritual nature in your territory. As long as I do not directly advocate a political agenda, the Caldari State has no way to arbitrarily differentiate my message. If you'd like more information about our legal status in the Caldari State, you can always contact our attorneys there.

I actually quite enjoy my time in Caldari space. Because of the legal situation, it's probably the one place in space where inhibiting spiritual learning and discourse will spark an internal diplomatic incident. Since, as you've probably, seen, civil disobediance and violent subversion are not part of my ministry, I have every right to spread the Word in your space.

One thing I've learned the value of in this ministry are excellent legal services. They are worth more than any armor we've ever developed. If you'd like to expend some effort testing my legal representation, they have case materials already prepared in every system of every space where CONCORD maintains high security. Believe me, they are very good.

If not, all the better! We both save resources. Perhaps you would like some of our copies of relevent Scriptural material? In the process of combing them for details, you may learn something useful about the nature of fear. How it is a barrier to your personal spiritual health and progress, and the root of all unecessary conflict. I always welcome such scrutiny. To scrutinize, you have to read. Thoroughly.

Either way, I am not particular.


Ah yes. You appear to have been taught in the theological seminary of acting the vapid and empty poseur on the IGS with an intense focus on:

- Delusions of grandeur
- Ignoring facts or evidence
- Living in fantasy
- The creation of unsubstantiated claim-making
- Logical fallacy
- Emotional projection
- Circular logic
- Torpid opinion presented as fact

Congratulations, you've just made the grade of being in the top one percentile of IGS delusional pundits.

You should be proud.

However, if you think I am in fear of an inconsequential braggart such as yourself whose only claim to fame thus far as I can see is senile pedantry:

I'm not.

An amusing thought though I would admit, that I should be in fear of the Lord Vaari, Seriphyn Inhonores, Diana Kim and now Constantin Baracca's of New Eden.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Eran Mintor
Metropolis Commercial Consortium
#191 - 2013-10-01 20:20:00 UTC
You don't fear Lord Vaari? That mustache is hideous and haunts me in my dreams.

-Eran
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#192 - 2013-10-01 22:40:50 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:


Ah yes. You appear to have been taught in the theological seminary of acting the vapid and empty poseur on the IGS with an intense focus on:

- Delusions of grandeur
- Ignoring facts or evidence
- Living in fantasy
- The creation of unsubstantiated claim-making
- Logical fallacy
- Emotional projection
- Circular logic
- Torpid opinion presented as fact

Congratulations, you've just made the grade of being in the top one percentile of IGS delusional pundits.

You should be proud.

However, if you think I am in fear of an inconsequential braggart such as yourself whose only claim to fame thus far as I can see is senile pedantry:

I'm not.

An amusing thought though I would admit, that I should be in fear of the Lord Vaari, Seriphyn Inhonores, Diana Kim and now Constantin Baracca's of New Eden.


Well, I must have said something fairly frightening. You don't see most of them lining up in my little corner of the IGS to tell me they are not afraid of me and that I am lucky not to be shot on sight. To understand other people, you need to see what they see and understand why they make the decisions that they do. Everyone can be boiled down to a few very basic points of interest.

Unlike most of the Caldari, you're somewhat more directly offensive, which I have always come to understand as a distinctly defensive way of viewing the world. People who are sure of themselves have no reason to attack anyone, so I understand your defensive nature to be related to your worldview. We extrapolate out from that point to wonder what it is about me that has so unhinged you that you feel I am a threat. As I am not a violent man, nor have I advocated violence against any people, I have to return to the arguments you've made.

You seem to have the assumption that I am lying, which I have also understood to be a complete denial that people of your culture cannot convert to the Word. It seems a rather calcified view of the world, and one that I can't say I have personally witnessed within the State. Certainly, military figures from the State have warned me against political transition, but that is par for the course. However, the idea that no one in the State would ever want to learn the Scriptures is an argument that I can see reflected back from, again, your worldview.

The rest not being very direct, I do assume you have a great fear of cultural diversity and assimilation. Otherwise, why the reaction? Pieter does not have these same reactions because he does not think my ministry would be sufficient to change any minds. Hence he interacts with me as a professional and leaves me be otherwise. Other Caldari you have seen here are not so harsh either. Certainly, they seem afraid of political change, but none seem overtly frightened or argumentative about my methods. Some have even directly contradicted you by showing interest in the Scriptures and their meanings.

What you have to understand, therefore, is that I see your arguments as not about me, but about how you see the world. What you fear, what you want, what you project as a supposition of the universe. You can tell a lot about who someone is by how they see the world and react to it.

All of which is a long way of saying that by your arguments, I simply assume you are afraid of cultural integration and assimilation. If not, why argue with me? If I really was so vapid and unenlightened, you've spent quite a bit of time being vexed about it. It all stands to reason. You wear that fear on your sleeve, but you do not need to be afraid of cultural integration. There are so many wondrous things out there in other cultures for you to see, experience, and even possibly absorb. Scripture is one of them, unique unto itself as a long-studied set of moral tales. Scripture teaches you to be without fear of other cultures because of the universality of our brotherhood. So many of the same problems and fears you experience are experienced around the cluster by various other people, some of whom live in quite different cultures than your own.

We really are all very similar, and there is nothing in any of our cultures that do not have corollaries in others. The great universal truth is that assimilation is inevitable because none of us really have that far to go. Conflict only hangs by a thread in the wider view of universal consciousness. We should not despair when that thread frays.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Arista Shahni
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#193 - 2013-10-02 05:50:05 UTC
I am quite impressed that the Theology Council seems to allow so many more liberties with the faith.

I am assuming that is what is happening, yes?

"I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also.  And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."

Slaver Filth
Council of Apostles
#194 - 2013-10-02 09:16:38 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.
Something must be malfunctioning with my datapad, because it states that Mr. Heth was a Caldari laborer, I am sure it is wrong and young pilot humblebrag is correct, Caldari laborers are as meek as lambs.

Perhaps if he gave his sermons someplace other then barstools he would discovery the true nature of the Caldari people with sober eyes.

"Child of Amarr seek not warmth in our cold hearts, we are the old serpent of New Eden and you must do your part, revel in our viciousness, we rule by venom and our strike is merciless, "

Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2013-10-02 09:39:06 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Well, I must have said something fairly frightening.

Ah, the standard "they've spent a lot of time addressing my falacious arguments so they must feel threatened by them" argument. You see this used a lot on the IGS and I admit that in the past I've been guilty of it. Farbeit from me to speak on Mdme. Gesakaarin's behalf, but if I were to take an educated guess as to why she's spent so much time verbally destroying you and all the falacious beliefs you hold, it would be because you are - or at least claim to be - actively promoting sedition in the Caldari State, in combination with the supremely arrogant twin beliefs that:

a. your culture is innately superior to Caldari culture (and, indeed, all cultures)
b. cultural and territorial assimilation of the State by the Amarr Empire is inevitable

Both beliefs are not only not facts but matters of opinion, but the weight of historical evidence suggests they're very likely both false. To continue trumpeting them despite the fact that you are not only almost certainly wrong but also very obviously offending the very people you're trying to convince is folly. To attempt to act on these beliefs despite this continued displeasure is madness.

In short, I would estimate that the reason Ms. Gesakaarin continues talking to you is because you are an idiot and she seems to enjoy ripping on them.

Constantin Baracca wrote:
You seem to have the assumption that I am lying

That is because, much like Slaver Filth, who is also a prize idiot, you have said many things that are extremely unlikely, and some things which are demonstrably untrue. Despite examples of the latter being demonstrated to both of you, you both continue to claim them. Slaver Filth considers himself better than you, and you consider yourself better than him - in truth you're both liars and charlatans, and not even very good at being either.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#196 - 2013-10-02 11:40:19 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:

That is because, much like Slaver Filth, who is also a prize idiot

Look, gallentean kid, from all the peoples, who has replied in this topic, this description could be applied only to you.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#197 - 2013-10-02 17:03:15 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Well, I must have said something fairly frightening.

Ah, the standard "they've spent a lot of time addressing my falacious arguments so they must feel threatened by them" argument. You see this used a lot on the IGS and I admit that in the past I've been guilty of it. Farbeit from me to speak on Mdme. Gesakaarin's behalf, but if I were to take an educated guess as to why she's spent so much time verbally destroying you and all the falacious beliefs you hold, it would be because you are - or at least claim to be - actively promoting sedition in the Caldari State, in combination with the supremely arrogant twin beliefs that:

a. your culture is innately superior to Caldari culture (and, indeed, all cultures)
b. cultural and territorial assimilation of the State by the Amarr Empire is inevitable

Both beliefs are not only not facts but matters of opinion, but the weight of historical evidence suggests they're very likely both false. To continue trumpeting them despite the fact that you are not only almost certainly wrong but also very obviously offending the very people you're trying to convince is folly. To attempt to act on these beliefs despite this continued displeasure is madness.

In short, I would estimate that the reason Ms. Gesakaarin continues talking to you is because you are an idiot and she seems to enjoy ripping on them.

Constantin Baracca wrote:
You seem to have the assumption that I am lying

That is because, much like Slaver Filth, who is also a prize idiot, you have said many things that are extremely unlikely, and some things which are demonstrably untrue. Despite examples of the latter being demonstrated to both of you, you both continue to claim them. Slaver Filth considers himself better than you, and you consider yourself better than him - in truth you're both liars and charlatans, and not even very good at being either.


While the body of my ministry isn't necessarily reliant on people outside it believing it, I think you have applied a broad swatch against my ministry that wouldn't hold up in a court of law in Caldari space. Namely, you'll need to find a place when I have directly called for the Caldari corporate government to be dissolved. The reason I continue to operate is because, as I said, I haven't. In fact, spiritualism is not banned in Caldari space, and disseminating the Scriptures to individuals who request it is not illegal. If any Caldari, or really anyone, has a problem with that, they may attempt to bring a lawsuit against us to have my NGO status removed. Honestly, there haven't been that many attempts and all that we've met have been won in court.

As I said, lawyers are worth more than guns every time. Your points, A and B, are not seditious according to Caldari law because I've never called for the dismantling of the state nor said my entire culture was entirely superior. In fact, we won our most recent case by positing my work on what Caldari thought processes I have been applying to our own slave labor projects. Nobody has since challenged me for sedition, though if you would like, you can attempt to contact legal representation in the Caldari State and meet my legal team in court. As long as my NGO status stands, there is nothing stopping me.

I think it is important that, before you pass judgement on my ministry, that you read the content of the articles. The State isn't really as reactionary as you think if you aren't aiming a gun at them, and I think I made an overall convincing case for fear being the rational behind all causal conflict. If you'd like to weigh in on that matter, perhaps even to have me recall when that has been the case in my own Empire, I would enjoin you to ask! However, attacking me is a little easier and perhaps more gratifying in the short term than having to counterpoint the argument.

Regardless, you can think of my ministry what you will. It isn't necessarily important that a capsuleer especially disbelieves its results, since I rarely end up being helped or interrupted by them. Perhaps, though, it does say a bit if that is what you think was so untrue? Why do you think I should have been killed by the Caldari? Is it really so shocking that they are not attempting to ravenously dismember me in the street?

The Caldari, by and large, are a fine people I've come to love and respect. My trips into their space has actually been less fraught with difficulty, whether you believe it or not. They're also an exceptionally reasonable people as long as you have taken the time to read the relevant statutes and maintain your place in the law. Perhaps they have even more of a fetish for procedure than even my people do, but that isn't necessarily difficult to deal with. "Please" and "thank you" go a long way there as well as being respectful to everyone you meet, no matter their station.

I know it may sometimes seem implausible that I can maintain decent status with all of the major empires, but it is possible even for a minister like me with a fairly obvious agenda in life. Kindness and common respect will open nearly every door for you, at least in well-secured parts of the empires. People, especially non-capsuleers, have a tendency to be more lenient if you leave your bad attitudes at home.

You would be amazed what you can achieve just by not being a source of escalation or conflict.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#198 - 2013-10-02 17:04:06 UTC
Slaver Filth wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
Cultural inclusion and assimilation is always a touchy subject. My experience has been that most people find the Scriptures incredibly fulfilling once they start reading them. As such, it's very important to people who fear such changes to avoid reading and attaining the knowledge.

I can say that blue collar Caldari are not lynching me in the streets when I come to Caldari territory and preach the word. I'm not in any danger here. The reaction runs the gamut from interest to dismissal, but Caldari laborers are not a violent people.
Something must be malfunctioning with my datapad, because it states that Mr. Heth was a Caldari laborer, I am sure it is wrong and young pilot humblebrag is correct, Caldari laborers are as meek as lambs.

Perhaps if he gave his sermons someplace other then barstools he would discovery the true nature of the Caldari people with sober eyes.


Remember, Slaver, that we all have bad examples in our past. Everyone has a black spot.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#199 - 2013-10-02 17:07:22 UTC
Arista Shahni wrote:
I am quite impressed that the Theology Council seems to allow so many more liberties with the faith.

I am assuming that is what is happening, yes?


You may have to read back some way, as this thread has been going for quite a while. However, that might be a fairly accurate assessment. We, as a people, have been examining our flaws and mistakes since the rebellion and the failure against the Juno. Believe it or not, we aren't a completely static people. The Scriptures may be inviolate, but we had to look back at our practices, even those tied to our faith, after they had so drastically failed us.

You have to be able to read God's hand in the universe to know you've made a wrong turn somewhere. He'd been helping and helping us, then punished our greed and laziness. We would be a poor people of faith indeed if we did not look back and see what we were punished for, then correct our problems.

That's required quite a bit of external and internal soul searching.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#200 - 2013-10-02 23:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Constantin Baracca wrote:

The rest not being very direct, I do assume you have a great fear of cultural diversity and assimilation. Otherwise, why the reaction?


Indeed, assumption and assertion is all that you appear to have and upon which you base your own particular brand of soporific platitudes to expound at length. If you believe in my present discourses with yourself I have been harsh, than that is indeed your own opinion and feeling that my words were injurious. This is not me being harsh, in fact I would say this is me only having escalated matters only very slightly with a minimal expenditure of effort for I have numerous duties to attend to in the prosecution of my present leadership position. This matter at hand is very low on my list of priorities to the point I would classify it as, "Idle amusement."

Now if you desire my kindness I will state a favourite saying of mine: "Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise." As such I will endeavour to show you the full extent of my kindness when I deem it suitable given my present demands upon my time and energies to extend towards yourself the wish you appear to have that I grant you the pleasure of having the rope you have most graciously placed in my hands tied around your neck, just as you have been equally gracious in having dug a hole of your own accord for me to place you in. All your words thus far presented are now in the public domain, and even if you wished to change them, sufficient logs exist in publicly available databases, that I have the time and leisure to prosecute this matter in the manner I would deem most suitable -- for myself certainly, for yourself perhaps not so much.

However, just as it seems you are oblivious both to the length of rope you have placed in my hand in addition to the hole I see you digging, you are just as blind to the fact that my interest and amusement in this discussion was never to convince you personally (Indeed, an overly large ego might believe it to be so) but rather to engage in some nostalgia of the days I worked as a corporate lawyer. To use an argument you have used yourself, so that you might understand, if you believe my position is incorrect because it has not been endorsed by what you see as my peers (granted, the use of endorsement is better left in the fields of advertizing and propaganda not debate in my mind) then what does it say about your own position and claims when not a single one of your own nominal Amarrian peers has supported it here?

Perhaps you will find an answer of sorts if you come to understand that in the life lead by a capsuleer, ones own reputation is a valuable commodity, and that I am not here, again, to convince you -- indeed it seems you have failed to realize that your own thoughts are of little value to me compared to the potential verdict to be passed by what might be said to be your peers and the public at large.

Kurilaivonen|Concern