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Dev blog: License to kill: Certificates Overhaul

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Dunk Dinkle
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#81 - 2013-09-30 21:35:26 UTC
The changes look great and will be helpful to our new pilots especially.

However, we need to hear the status of the Hull Tanking Elite certificate before giving it both thumbs up.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-09-30 21:48:44 UTC
Aliventi wrote:
I love that gun training no longer needs the previous sizes of guns trained to V to get the next sized up T2 guns. This does bring the gunnery skills in line with missile skills. However, this doesn't fix the issue that the base missile skills take twice as long to train as the base skills of a single type of turret. I have some numbers below:

**NUMBERS**

The numbers made sense previously as missiles allowed quicker specialization, but slower generalization. Turrets offered better generalization and slower specialization. Now that turrets get the generalization and specialization it would be nice for missiles to join them. If you could unify the training times missiles and turrets that would finally make these changes complete.



Thank you for articulating this concern and backing it up with numbers. This is my concern as well, as it was one of the core differentiators between Gunnery and Missiles. I believe Missiles were at a disadvantage before this change, because the support skills only affected one weapon system, versus 3 (Hybrids, Energy Turrets, Projectiles). With this differentiation being removed, some balance should be applied to players who invested a lot of SP specializing in this weapon system.
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-09-30 21:55:02 UTC
Some good stuff in there although apparently I never used the certificate system the way it was designed to be used ("guidance" - chortle). For me, it was always about the bling. With that said:


  1. Please keep the "Claim" button.
  2. Please retain the ability to set Certs to Public; this is very important because it allows people to see my
  3. Hull Tanking Certificate Elite - nuff said.


Also - Starter Professions should stay mos def!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#84 - 2013-09-30 21:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Also voicing my concern over missile skills. If guns only have to train 'Hybrid weapons' missiles should gain the same unity of 'Small missiles' for Rockets & Light missiles, then specialise differently. As the 'advantage' missiles had of skipping specs that was always used as the argument for why missiles had to train twice has now been removed.

Though I approve of the changes to gun skill requirements.

I also feel the skill multipliers of the missile support skills should be reviewed at the same time, as they only apply to a single skill, not two skills (Most of the Gunnery Support skills actually only benefit two of the three gun types, Controlled Bursts being no benefit to AC's, Optimal being minimal benefit to AC's etc)

Certificates I'm split on a few of the flavour elements like starter professions, though if the system is being extended to include corp defined certificates, those fill the same role. Elite Hull Tanking must stay! & for everyone going on about Astronautics rigging, Warp Speed rigs. Remember they are changing Warp Speed mechanics to make Warp speed actually matter. So just because currently no-one uses them doesn't mean they will remain unused.
Rodrik Vikary
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#85 - 2013-09-30 22:05:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodrik Vikary
These changes seem to be really great! I can't wait to see all these new things in EVE!

The certificates and the requirements for T2 guns are very good changes that will improve the capsuleer experience a lot and make it easier for not only new players but also the old ones.

Edit: I have read most of the comments and I agree and hope CCP looks into this. Don't make skills that are not really necessary at V in the Certificates. The case of rigging skills is very obvious for example. New players will get the wrong idea from this and lose time training things that are unecessary. Also, I hope you take a look at the missile skills too, because if it's true that it takes much longer to train into missiles than to gunnery, it might be a good idea to improve them too.
Marlene Dakenek
Devid Ventures
#86 - 2013-09-30 22:32:41 UTC
Good changes. However it would be nice if the skill books and info icons would have some other color than gray. I like the current beige and blue color scheme.
James Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2013-09-30 22:50:42 UTC
1Robert McNamara1 wrote:
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65175/1/SC_Icons_Branded.png

This could be made a touch more intuitive.

Red is worse than grey generally. Give Red/Yellow/Green a shot.
Red - do not own/not injected
>Yellow - injected, not high enough for requirement
> Green - requirement met
> Green Star - L5

+1 to this. It would mirror how the current certificate requirements are marked: red X for no requirement met, yellow O for some requirements met, green check for all requirements met. The symbols aren't important but the colors are. As an alternative, make the "uninjected" a red wireframe or outline of a skillbook.

A few other things.

1. Please make sure the new "requirements" tab is also applied to other "skill prerequisites" tabs such as for Modules and Skills themselves. It would be awkward if they continue using the current format.
2. Perhaps add arrows for the skills so you can expand and contract skill trees in the requirements tab. So you could look at either just the 3 required skills, or all of their prerequisites as you desire.
3. Please add a popup notification when you reach a new level of a certificate with an appropriate sound. Achievement Unlocked (of course not with those words Blink)
Nihill Widderslaint
Tyranx
#88 - 2013-09-30 23:33:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nihill Widderslaint
Loving the Turret Tiericide! I was actually hoping for this while training core turrets' skills to get in a T2-weapons Nightmare, this is perfect, about 21 days of unneeded small/medium training will be gone. (some other stuff to train until the release, all is good)

+1 to the argument (backed up with numbers, post #48) of rebalancing missiles skill trees/multipliers, considering now things will be much better for turrets (from a new-ish player base perspective), and considering Devs ARE at it (Rapid Heavies!) you guys should definitely give it some love. Thanks.

+1 concerning the colors of skill requirements. Red/Yellow/Green/Green-Star is much more visually intuitive.

The Mastery concept seems good, can't wait to see the InterBus ship specialization tree (or whatever you'll call it) showed in the last CCP stream, I predict that's something I'll spend hours in awe / planning.

Cheers for the Devs involved!

PS. Don't forget to also apply the tiericide requirements of T2 Ammo (as already noted) or all the changes would be for nought.
Highfield
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#89 - 2013-09-30 23:42:06 UTC
"that’s where corporation created certificates might come in handy"

YES! Superduper useful to let people know what to train for the new doctrines.
Rain6638
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#90 - 2013-09-30 23:43:33 UTC
sweet. this is excellent. focused max'ed ships will come sooner with the gunnery skill surgery. win

[ 2013.06.21 09:52:05 ] (notify) For initiating combat your security status has been adjusted by -0.1337
stoicfaux
#91 - 2013-09-30 23:48:36 UTC
a) You buried Gunnery Tiericide in a Cert dev blog. It should have been its own blog.

b) The large gunnery pre-req windows are backwards in terms of Primary and Tertiary skills e.g. "Large Artillery V" should be in the Primary as oppose to "Large Artillery IV." It's a clarity issue.

c) You're nerfing/lowering my cert count? I expect compensation! Twisted

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#92 - 2013-10-01 00:06:32 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Certificate icons are changed to be a lot more readable (how many of you knew that the old certificate icons were showing different levels?)

o/

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
None ofthe Above
#93 - 2013-10-01 00:21:53 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Looks nice, but I like cliking the "Get certificates" button. Not a *critical* issue, but it feels rewarding when the message pops and says "certificate earned". Smile


I won't miss it.

I particularly disliked the avatar image flashing to get me to accept the certificates, then when I did -- flashing again to let me know I just received the certificates that I just accepted.

I like the changes in general. All in all seems like an improvement.

The gunnery skill changes is a surprise. Not sure how I feel about that, but can probably adapt. Valid point that it probably deserves it's own blog or announcement. The people that care about that aren't necessarily the same people that would read about certs.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Galphii
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#94 - 2013-10-01 01:12:18 UTC
Excellent changes, especially to turret specialisation. Love the clarity and focus of the mastery system, this will really help newer players get a grasp on what they need to train for. Well done! Big smile

"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#95 - 2013-10-01 01:32:23 UTC
Nihill Widderslaint wrote:
+1 concerning the colors of skill requirements. Red/Yellow/Green/Green-Star is much more visually intuitive.


Red/Yellow/Blue is friendlier to the colorblind, especially if they're different hues.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
#96 - 2013-10-01 01:47:03 UTC
Very nice changes, keep the blogs comming.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron

-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#97 - 2013-10-01 01:51:08 UTC
Antoine Jordan wrote:
Bring back Cert claiming, I love to click that button!


Noooooo!!!!! Shocked Such an unnecessary hassle What?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#98 - 2013-10-01 02:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mioelnir
If the Panther keeps its recommendation of Artillery with Active Armor Tanking I'll make fun of the certificate system next Fanfest again (if you don't know why this recommendation is funny: try fitting it).

PS: sad that newer players will never again feel the sense of accomplishment of having t2 large turrets.
Matuk Grymwal
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#99 - 2013-10-01 02:24:48 UTC
Awesome, I've wanted the gunnery skills to be decoupled like missiles for years. Anything that encourages specialisation is to be applauded.
Sturmwolke
#100 - 2013-10-01 03:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Ok, good move for the certificates ... now create an ingame template tool for players aka like ships fits for certificates so that it can be passed around to players.
Why do this? Because you get tired for the upteenth time telling newbies what to train for, for a specific task. It makes the job a lot easier by templating - i.e by allowing players to pick and choose what they think as important skills for a task.

For example, arbitrary :

Armor Logistic for Incursion Template
Navigation 3
Sensor Linking 3
Remote Armor Repair 5
Whatever Else 5
Hull 4
Ship 5


... you get idea.