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FW vs. null sec
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Enochx Kaine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-09-22 19:53:42 UTC
I am new to the game. I am trying to decide whether I should apply for a null sec corp or seek a FW corp. I have done a little bit of FW in the past on a now deleted char., but I have never been to null. I understand pretty much everything about FW except for one thing.....what is the biggest size shp that form fleets in FW? Are there every battlecruisers or above...or really any need for battlecruisers and above in FW?

As for null....well what do you do there? I gather that you form fleets and attack your enemies...but what about in between things like that? Seriously...I don't really know what you do in Null. It is so far away from high sec and from what I understand it can be hard to even GET to high sec. So how do Markets work in Null? What do people do for ISK in Null? How few and far between are fights in Null?
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#2 - 2013-09-22 20:07:32 UTC
Enochx Kaine wrote:
I understand pretty much everything about FW except for one thing.....what is the biggest size shp that form fleets in FW? Are there every battlecruisers or above...or really any need for battlecruisers and above in FW?


You don't see battleships and battlecruisers as much anymore but you still do see them. Certainly still have a place in FW... just not as big of a place as it used to be.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Enochx Kaine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-09-22 22:56:51 UTC
what about my other questions? Specifically the market....how do you buy things when you are part of a corp in null? Like I understand Jita and Amarr....people sell things I buy them. But if you are in a corp in null....then there isn't anyone else there is there? like who sells stuff?
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2013-09-23 00:55:43 UTC
Markets in null are stocked by the locals, so prices vary and are generally higher than HS as you pay a premium for the locals having to move them there. It is odd though, many alliances\corps\players manufacture goods in null and even put them on the market for higher than Jita prices, basically out to rip off their alliance buddies.
Making isk in null is pretty easy if you are in a big sov alliance. Lots of isk to be made ratting and with exploration, PI is also pretty good and if you can get some moons up you can make some isk from them if you careful on what\how you do it.
To be truly self sufficient in null you will need 2 accounts and a jump freighter. Makes life far easier. You can easily make enough isk to cover 2 plex'ed account. You can do just fine without it.. but means you rely on other good will a lot.
SOV grinding is a pain though, lots of boring structure bashing with only a few good fights.
Pinky Feldman
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#5 - 2013-09-23 01:10:33 UTC
Amarr have been bringing out BCs lately since they're fun to fly in lowsec, I wouldn't expect anything other than an SFI out of the Minmatar unless it's WINMATAR, and even then it's only to shoot ihubs. I think a lot of the Minmatar are too busy polishing the warzone control medal they got for taking Sahtogas.

The moar you cry the less you pee
Enochx Kaine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-09-23 02:28:57 UTC
what if i don't have 2 accounts. or a jump frieghter. can I still make enough isk to live in null? I am not really interested in hoarding a whole lot of isk. I just want enough for the next ship. and the ship after that. and as I gradually train higher and higher....for THAT ship as well. of course I will need enough to fit all those ships....but yeah thats all i really want. Anything else is WAY beyond my skill level anyway. This is my first char ever (except for the ones i deleted) but he only has 2 mill SP. and thats twice as many as the two i deleted....so......if I move to null with a corp/alliance that owns it's own sov space....will I be ok yall think?
Cage Man
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2013-09-23 02:32:26 UTC
Enochx Kaine wrote:
what if i don't have 2 accounts. or a jump frieghter. can I still make enough isk to live in null? I am not really interested in hoarding a whole lot of isk. I just want enough for the next ship. and the ship after that. and as I gradually train higher and higher....for THAT ship as well. of course I will need enough to fit all those ships....but yeah thats all i really want. Anything else is WAY beyond my skill level anyway. This is my first char ever (except for the ones i deleted) but he only has 2 mill SP. and thats twice as many as the two i deleted....so......if I move to null with a corp/alliance that owns it's own sov space....will I be ok yall think?


Yep you will do fine, that's how most start, just find a good corp\alliance.
Andre Vauban
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-23 04:14:24 UTC
If you enjoy the idea of sov, large epic fleet battles in expensive ships, and would prefer to rat (or log off) when there isn't an organized fleet; go to null sec. If you want to log on, undock, and get instant pvp in mostly frigs/dessies with some T1 cruisers once in a while; go FW.

Don't worry about logistics. Any decent corporation will stock the market in their home system and have JF service.

.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-09-23 04:34:50 UTC
Speaking from the point of view of a former carebear that has been slowly adjusting to life in null:

Once you get properly adjusted to Null, Eve becomes a whole new game. You now have much more interaction with the environment, as there is no longer any non-player intervention. Defense, infrastructure, and sovereignty are all handled by players. The situation can change at any minute, and a previously quiet system can become a raging warzone literally due to one wrong click. A slow day in null is simply the calm before the storm. Quite simply, Null is fun. If you can find an alliance that will have you and teach you to live there, it is definitely worth it.
Enochx Kaine
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-09-23 04:36:47 UTC
cool beans.....so just find a good corp. I think I might have one. I applied. we shall see what happens I suppose. Thanks for all the info and advice. And they say Eve doesn't cater to new people...........That's just a ploy by Blizzard and Bio to try and keep people there. SECRETS AND LIES I SAY........SECRETS..............AND.....................LIES.
Janna Sway
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#11 - 2013-09-30 20:51:40 UTC
Enochx Kaine wrote:
what if i don't have 2 accounts. or a jump frieghter. can I still make enough isk to live in null? I am not really interested in hoarding a whole lot of isk. I just want enough for the next ship. and the ship after that. and as I gradually train higher and higher....for THAT ship as well. of course I will need enough to fit all those ships....but yeah thats all i really want. Anything else is WAY beyond my skill level anyway. This is my first char ever (except for the ones i deleted) but he only has 2 mill SP. and thats twice as many as the two i deleted....so......if I move to null with a corp/alliance that owns it's own sov space....will I be ok yall think?


With 2kk SP I stongly suggest you join FW and not a SovNull alliance, for I am pretty sure that you will have a very tough time until you have a minimum of maybe 7kk SP, 10kk SP preferred I would say. I don't know in what you have spent your 2kk SP in but there is pretty much nothing in null for you to do. Maybe you could join frigate roams and support with ewar, but that's pretty much it.

Yes, people say that you can earn a lot of ISK in null etc, but you need minimum amount of skills for that and 2kk SP is not sufficient.

Consider that you will invest a lot of ISK in the very beginning when you enter null until you have yourself established there, made yourself a home there. Consider that the market in null will most likely be poor to non-existent.

I have always lived in Nullsec, from the very beginning, since I had 2-3kk SP and tell you about the pain I experienced. When you live in unclaimable NPC-null space, then you can most likely live with the thought that there will absolutely be no market existent, or expect to buy a T1 Frigate for 2-5kk ISK.
Thus, you have to be able to manufacture some equipment you will need. You will need to be able to mine something from time to time, so that you can manufacture. You would rely on corpmates to get your stuff out of null into highsec. It is recommended that you have at least one jumpclone (not a problem, ask in null about how to get those even without 8.0 standings), for you need to get out of null and sell that stuff to get some money in.
Consider that getting in and out of null is not always easy, for there are camps everywhere. In my case, when I was up to 6kk SP young, I never managed to get out of null, thus I always actively searched for Wormholes and tried to bounce through 2-5 wormholes into highsec and once I had such a path set up, I used the opportunity to get stuff in and out of nullsec and buy the stuff I had put on my buying list.

I might also stress that you rush and train for CovOps or just Cloaking, for cloaking will be the only form of defense for you that early.
Until you have around 7-10kk SP, you will feel like in a prison in null, I can promise you that, yes I am pretty sure about that. It will not be fun.

What you could do in null however is to salvage and loot wrecks from kind ratters and complex runners, who are not interested in the "trash" and are just seeking to make ISK by killing the rats and drop possible faction loot.

It is very possible to live with 2kk SP in null, don't wanna put a stop-sign up there for you, but expect a challenge. If you are up for a rough and challenging experience, go for it, but do not expect ISK falling from the sky into your bosom. Rather expect spending lot of time and efford to just keeping yourself alive, ISK-wise and motivation-wise.
It will be really hard and I highly suggest you stay out of null for now. There are exceptions and of course other people who started EVE like me might have had other experiences to share with you, for all depends on where in null you live and with what people you were together in the corp/alliance, but seriously, FW much more fun that early on, that's 100% for sure. FW has particularly been designed to serve low-SP players. Null will not be fun, that's for sure.

Good luck with your decision and hopefully it will be the right decision for you.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-09-30 22:00:50 UTC
I lived in null three times for extended periods. Even during a pretty heated war during the BRUCE years in Fountain and some decent fighting in Syndicate and Geminate, nullsec has nothing on FW if you want to pvp. You can find more small gang fights in one week in FW than you could in an entire month of nullsec.

Now, you CAN get into large fleet fights and get a lot of kills during war in null, but its ... different. Just kinda zombie fleets F1 F1 F1. It didnt really seem like pvp to me. Nullsec fleet battles seemed like a B52 dropping bombs vs FW small gang dogfighting. You can get dogfighting in nullsec, its just not as common. Now - there are "endgame" fights with capitals and stuff that could be really fun and of a different quality - I just never was into that kinda thing.

I had some fun in null, but it depends on what you are looking for. There is a lot more small gang in FW, and that is my personal preference.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#13 - 2013-09-30 23:13:36 UTC
Like all of eve, its about finding the right corp to help you in your goals. I think people forget that Goons started as a bunch of noobs in rifters. They still active recruit new players, that's that's how they stay strong, vets get bored and move on.
Every fleet needs brave tacklers, so many fleets will have space for new players. Any sov alliance worth anything will have a properly stocked market, all be it a little bit more expensive than HS.. some times.
Will you battle as a new player in null, maybe.. everyone is different and a good corp will support you.
As said though, if you want to log in and consistently get pew pew.. then FW and RVB is where you want to go. Null has times when pew pew is busy and times when its not, then there are other thing to do, small fleets, ratting, mining, exploration.. and in most cases its safer than hs.

BTW, living in CVA space is very different than the rest of null, in CVA space you only shoot reds.. in other null space you shoot anything that is not blue.. the big difference, in CVA space if a neutral comes in.. he must agress you first, in other null.. shoot anything not blue.. no thinking involved..

Try it, if you don't like it.. leave is all I can say, but its important to find a good helpful corp.

... What next ??
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#14 - 2013-10-01 14:25:34 UTC
Two major differences between FW and 0.0:

a) FW is more occasional... you can go off for a few days or a week and come back and just continue where you stopped. Okay, you should maybe avoid putting all your stuff into FW-low sec stations which might result in a docking denial. But you can always operate from "safe" high-sec for resupply etc. In 0.0 however, if you aren't on all time 24/7 you might end up stranted once you come back. Your POS is down, your station taken and you are far out from any safe harbour.

b) In FW people to tend fly small and inexpensive stuff. Mostly Frigates, Dessies and sometimes up to Cruisers. In 0.0 the opposite is true... the larger and more expensive the better. You can't do much in 0.0 with a frigate.
Ludate
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-10-01 19:34:58 UTC
New PVP pilot should start out with FW 9 times out of 10. You generally see a lot of small ships there and the pilots have low SP often too.
Major Killz
inglorious bastards.
#16 - 2013-10-03 01:25:14 UTC
The ONLY substantial difference between 0.0 and Low security space is: warp bubbles, bombs, Concord sentries, and lack of NPC stations.

Low security space has always been a matter of convenience for me. Mainly due to more NPC stations and relatively close access to trade hubs.

If You're a solo pilot or Fleet Commander who's good. You'll find things a little more challenging but others you have more freedoms in terms of combat and more things to watch out for or avoid.


Most pilots communicated with in low security space or factional warfare will tell you otherwise. As you may or may not know. Most pilots in 0.0 are afraid to venture far from allied systems in search of combat without a large group of allies (Fleet). This is the norm in game. Which is funny because any GOOD solo pilot or Fleet commander in 0.0 doesn't really roam their own space. You go to hostile regions. So of course those who don't like this dynamic choose an easier path and join factional warfare or do other things in low security space. This isn't to say that all bad pilots are in low security space. Infact I find the opposite is true. Pilots in low security space tend to be more independent and competent. Still, they choose to live somewhere that was more secure, convenient and EASY comparatively.


However, don't listen to people in factional warfare who say you cannot solo in 0.0. They say things like that because they failed in that regard and are projecting for whatever reason. Anything that can be done in Low security space can be done in 0.0 and more. It's just more difficult, not impossible.

[u]Ich bin ein Pirat ！[/u]
samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#17 - 2013-10-04 20:06:42 UTC
Major Killz wrote:
The ONLY substantial difference between 0.0 and Low security space is: warp bubbles, bombs, Concord sentries, and lack of NPC stations.

Low security space has always been a matter of convenience for me. Mainly due to more NPC stations and relatively close access to trade hubs.

If You're a solo pilot or Fleet Commander who's good. You'll find things a little more challenging but others you have more freedoms in terms of combat and more things to watch out for or avoid.


Most pilots communicated with in low security space or factional warfare will tell you otherwise. As you may or may not know. Most pilots in 0.0 are afraid to venture far from allied systems in search of combat without a large group of allies (Fleet). This is the norm in game. Which is funny because any GOOD solo pilot or Fleet commander in 0.0 doesn't really roam their own space. You go to hostile regions. So of course those who don't like this dynamic choose an easier path and join factional warfare or do other things in low security space. This isn't to say that all bad pilots are in low security space. Infact I find the opposite is true. Pilots in low security space tend to be more independent and competent. Still, they choose to live somewhere that was more secure, convenient and EASY comparatively.


However, don't listen to people in factional warfare who say you cannot solo in 0.0. They say things like that because they failed in that regard and are projecting for whatever reason. Anything that can be done in Low security space can be done in 0.0 and more. It's just more difficult, not impossible.


Not entirely true.

Having lived in nullsec exclusively I can agree that mechanically these are the differences. However null sec has something that you can't get anywhere else which is a sense of definite and indescriminate ownership.

It makes you want to undock your best ship for invaders. It makes you want to join the fleets to defend.

Lowsec feels a little less pushing for that. I love it due to the nature of the PvP but null will always be where my heart lies.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-10-05 08:05:04 UTC
Major Killz wrote:

However, don't listen to people in factional warfare who say you cannot solo in 0.0. They say things like that because they failed in that regard and are projecting for whatever reason. Anything that can be done in Low security space can be done in 0.0 and more. It's just more difficult, not impossible.


The challenge in soloing null is just different. In FW space the challenge is about winning skilled opponents, in null the challenge is having the stamina to spend hours on trying to find a player ship in space.

.