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Dev blog: License to kill: Certificates Overhaul

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Psihius
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-09-30 18:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Psihius
Good stuff, but I have to say it... T2 ammo? It has all the prerequesties of training turrets to lvl5, and specializations to 4 on smaller turrets - so for Large T2 guns to use tech 2 ammo I have to train small, medium and large (the large one is fine ofcourse) to lvl4, so I would assume you have forgotten about the tech 2 ammo?

An image :) http://clip2net.com/s/5Rfb3s
WarpToMe AtZero
Sodium Chloride Mining Logistics
Domain Research and Mining Inst. Logistics
#42 - 2013-09-30 18:43:28 UTC
It seems confusing, to use Tech II guns (hybrid and projectile) the primary skill is level IV but the tertiary skill is V to train specialization. But without specialization you can't use Tech II guns. And I just noticed lasers require primary at level V.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-09-30 18:47:00 UTC
What's happening with the Hull Tanking Elite certificate ?
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#44 - 2013-09-30 18:47:19 UTC
its a shame that me as a battleship pilot already was forced to train all the skills for smaller ships I do not fly, but nonetheless great job.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-09-30 18:49:51 UTC
What about XL guns? Will they still need Large Turret skill lvl V?

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#46 - 2013-09-30 18:50:32 UTC
BUT : Where are my corp certificates ? SadSadSad

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Liner Xiandra
Sparks Inc
#47 - 2013-09-30 18:57:56 UTC
So in order to tell if a corpmate should be allowed a corp-role or been given a ship we're now forced to do an API check to see if he or she qualifies for the associated certificate?

Please dont toss out public certificates. In fact, expand it with corp/alliance access please.
Aliventi
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#48 - 2013-09-30 18:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aliventi
I love that gun training no longer needs the previous sizes of guns trained to V to get the next sized up T2 guns. This does bring the gunnery skills in line with missile skills. However, this doesn't fix the issue that the base missile skills take twice as long to train as the base skills of a single type of turret. I have some numbers below:

Quote:
Some by the numbers:
For equivalent effectiveness of small turrets you need to train:
Rockets (256k SP) + Light Missiles(512k SP) = 768k SP - small projectile turret (256k SP) = 512k UNNEEDED SP

For equivalent effectiveness of medium turrets you need to train:
Heavy Missiles (768k SP) + Heavy Assault Missiles (768k SP) = 1536k SP - Medium projectile turret (768k SP) = 768k UNNEEDED SP

For equivalent effectiveness of large turrets you need to train:
Cruise Missiles (1280k SP) + Torpedos (1024k) = 2304k SP - large projectile turret (1280k SP) = 1024k UNNEEDED SP

Totals: Missile Launcher Skill to V is 4608k SP and Gunnery Turret skill to V is 2304k SP. Each Gunnery Turret SP is worth 2 Missile Launcher SP.

Total up to this point is 2,304,000 unneeded SP just to be as effective as a someone who trained a large turret skill to V.
At 2250 SP/hr (remapped Perception/Willpower with no implants) that is 42.66 days worth of additional unneeded training.
At 2700 SP/hr (Remapped Perception/Willpower with +5 implants) that is 35.55 days worth of additional unneeded training.

The numbers made sense previously as missiles allowed quicker specialization, but slower generalization. Turrets offered better generalization and slower specialization. Now that turrets get the generalization and specialization it would be nice for missiles to join them. If you could unify the training times missiles and turrets that would finally make these changes complete.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#49 - 2013-09-30 19:01:38 UTC
Psihius wrote:
Good stuff, but I have to say it... T2 ammo? It has all the prerequesties of training turrets to lvl5, and specializations to 4 on smaller turrets - so for Large T2 guns to use tech 2 ammo I have to train small, medium and large (the large one is fine ofcourse) to lvl4, so I would assume you have forgotten about the tech 2 ammo?

An image :) http://clip2net.com/s/5Rfb3s


Well noticed... perhaps ammo could get their own skills

and sharpshooting lv5 for T2 LR guns is also annoying and should be reduced to lv3..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Marsan
#50 - 2013-09-30 19:03:02 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
What's happening with the Hull Tanking Elite certificate ?


Please keep the Hull Tanking cert!!! I've got to Leet at something.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#51 - 2013-09-30 19:14:49 UTC
We need ISK tanking certificate beside hull tanking certificate.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#52 - 2013-09-30 19:15:09 UTC
It'll be very nice and easy to cross train into large weapons now! Thank you for changing this. I can now have projectile large, hybrid medium and laser smalls if I want....not a very good idea, but at least its possible!!

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Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#53 - 2013-09-30 19:15:32 UTC
Quick, upgrade your clone CCP Ytterbium!

About the few worlds on corporates certificates... are you doing these custom-made things we'd asked for a while soon?
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
#54 - 2013-09-30 19:21:23 UTC
Certificates will never really work all that well in a game with so many skills, ships, and roles. A game where level 5 in a skill can take a month or more to train and gives an unnoticeable benefit. And a game where you can fit your ship however you like and for varying uses. Hopefully new players will understand that they are a very rough guide and are not to be taken too seriously. Astronautics Rigging 5...
1Robert McNamara1
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2013-09-30 19:28:58 UTC
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65175/1/SC_Icons_Branded.png

This could be made a touch more intuitive.

Red is worse than grey generally. Give Red/Yellow/Green a shot.
Red - do not own/not injected
>Yellow - injected, not high enough for requirement
> Green - requirement met
> Green Star - L5
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#56 - 2013-09-30 19:29:19 UTC
i like the look of the skill icons in the skill list. Maybe you could update the skillbook icon of the actual item too for consistency reasons.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#57 - 2013-09-30 19:29:45 UTC
For this to be useful I think this still needs some mechanism of exposing/sharing skill proficiency levels to others short of giving them an API key.

Other than that, these changes are hot 3-way sex in a tub of jello.
M1AU
Zappenduster Inc.
#58 - 2013-09-30 19:33:27 UTC
Throughout good changes. Well done!
VaL Iscariot
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-09-30 19:37:01 UTC
Two questions:

1. Why are large and medium beam lasers harder to use than any other turret class? The skills needed for 425mm t2 rail guns only requires Large Hybrid Turret lvl IV where as Tachyon Beam Laser t2 requires Large Energy Turret lvl V. Maybe a typo? If not, what is the thought process?

2. Will I get to keep my Hull Tanking Elite certificate?
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#60 - 2013-09-30 19:38:06 UTC
Can we get a new option in the skill window to "hide fully trained skills" ?

Would like to be able to "show all skills" with "hide fully trained" selected at the same time when I'm browsing to see what to do next.