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Interceptor changes
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Olaf4862
Dragoon Industries Limited
#41 - 2013-09-30 19:07:42 UTC
Lucine Delacourt wrote:
How about making sure that every interceptor has at least enough mids for tackle and a prop...


Why is Tackle not a high slot module instead of a mid slot? I mean you would think it would balance out better as a high slot item.
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#42 - 2013-09-30 19:41:29 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
In my opinion, the thing that intys need the most, is to be immune to the mwd canceling affects of a warp scram.


This is exactly what interceptors need most!


This would make them way to overpowered, especially kiting versions.



Not necessarily. As kiters they have very week dps, also neuts/webs would play a big role in killing them. The warp scram has become too necessary for pvp.

I would love to see a class of ship that you need to use webs and neuts to kill. Not just do the same old thing and slap on a scram.
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


Like I said, energy neuts and webs would ravage any inty. Also if certain intys are still to OP there are some very simply rebalances that could happen to bring them in line. Removal of one turret or launcher would do a lot for example.

Please try to keep an open mind. There is MANY ways of killing an inty with out the use of a scram. I used to mainly fly intys before scrams shut off mwds, and there was still tons of ways to die. All it takes is one curse or a rapier and some warrior 2s, and your ship melts.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#43 - 2013-09-30 20:07:50 UTC
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


Like I said, energy neuts and webs would ravage any inty. Also if certain intys are still to OP there are some very simply rebalances that could happen to bring them in line. Removal of one turret or launcher would do a lot for example.

Please try to keep an open mind. There is MANY ways of killing an inty with out the use of a scram. I used to mainly fly intys before scrams shut off mwds, and there was still tons of ways to die. All it takes is one curse or a rapier and some warrior 2s, and your ship melts.


You're talking about the nullsec metagame. Back when Interceptors were unscrammable webs had a base strength of 90%, of course people didn't have any trouble killing you. In the current lowsec metagame unscrammable ceptors wouldn't have any counters since rapiers & Co can't go into very many plex types. In small scale frig pvp that currently dominates lowsec there wouldn't be any counter for this.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#44 - 2013-09-30 20:16:01 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


Like I said, energy neuts and webs would ravage any inty. Also if certain intys are still to OP there are some very simply rebalances that could happen to bring them in line. Removal of one turret or launcher would do a lot for example.

Please try to keep an open mind. There is MANY ways of killing an inty with out the use of a scram. I used to mainly fly intys before scrams shut off mwds, and there was still tons of ways to die. All it takes is one curse or a rapier and some warrior 2s, and your ship melts.


You're talking about the nullsec metagame. Back when Interceptors were unscrammable webs had a base strength of 90%, of course people didn't have any trouble killing you. In the current lowsec metagame unscrammable ceptors wouldn't have any counters since rapiers & Co can't go into very many plex types. In small scale frig pvp that currently dominates lowsec there wouldn't be any counter for this.


Yes there is. Neuting Sentinels. And on top of that all EA frigs are getting buffed. So yes there is a counter.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-09-30 20:20:12 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
You're talking about the nullsec metagame. Back when Interceptors were unscrammable webs had a base strength of 90%, of course people didn't have any trouble killing you. In the current lowsec metagame unscrammable ceptors wouldn't have any counters since rapiers & Co can't go into very many plex types. In small scale frig pvp that currently dominates lowsec there wouldn't be any counter for this.

Well there are the soon to be buffed EAFs, one of which has a web range bonus.

However I feel that if you are going to get close enough to someone to scram them and shut off their MWD then you should run the risk of getting your own MWD shut off as well. A fleet inty can scram to 11.3km which I feel is rather powerful. I feel this makes the choice of fleet inty vs combat inty more interesting if you are going to be a dog fighter. I mean who expects a brawling/scram kiting Malediction?
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#46 - 2013-09-30 20:23:12 UTC
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


Like I said, energy neuts and webs would ravage any inty. Also if certain intys are still to OP there are some very simply rebalances that could happen to bring them in line. Removal of one turret or launcher would do a lot for example.

Please try to keep an open mind. There is MANY ways of killing an inty with out the use of a scram. I used to mainly fly intys before scrams shut off mwds, and there was still tons of ways to die. All it takes is one curse or a rapier and some warrior 2s, and your ship melts.


You're talking about the nullsec metagame. Back when Interceptors were unscrammable webs had a base strength of 90%, of course people didn't have any trouble killing you. In the current lowsec metagame unscrammable ceptors wouldn't have any counters since rapiers & Co can't go into very many plex types. In small scale frig pvp that currently dominates lowsec there wouldn't be any counter for this.


Yes there is. Neuting Sentinels. And on top of that all EA frigs are getting buffed. So yes there is a counter.

You can't have a ship class that can only be countered with one other ship class, that is imbalanced. An unscrammable interceptor would be effectively invincible if a daredevil, hyena or sentinel wouldn't be present.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#47 - 2013-09-30 20:47:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Teth Razor
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Randy Wray wrote:
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


Like I said, energy neuts and webs would ravage any inty. Also if certain intys are still to OP there are some very simply rebalances that could happen to bring them in line. Removal of one turret or launcher would do a lot for example.

Please try to keep an open mind. There is MANY ways of killing an inty with out the use of a scram. I used to mainly fly intys before scrams shut off mwds, and there was still tons of ways to die. All it takes is one curse or a rapier and some warrior 2s, and your ship melts.


You're talking about the nullsec metagame. Back when Interceptors were unscrammable webs had a base strength of 90%, of course people didn't have any trouble killing you. In the current lowsec metagame unscrammable ceptors wouldn't have any counters since rapiers & Co can't go into very many plex types. In small scale frig pvp that currently dominates lowsec there wouldn't be any counter for this.


Yes there is. Neuting Sentinels. And on top of that all EA frigs are getting buffed. So yes there is a counter.

You can't have a ship class that can only be countered with one other ship class, that is imbalanced. An unscrammable interceptor would be effectively invincible if a daredevil, hyena or sentinel wouldn't be present.


Or dramiel, or any other interceptor or, most of the recons, any neuting BS. the list goes on.

I ask you this question. If you are so worried about having counters. What's the counter to Griffins and Kitsunes?
I don't see much for option on counters for those. The list of ships that counter an unscrammable inty is quite large in comparison.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#48 - 2013-09-30 21:11:25 UTC
Teth Razor wrote:


Or dramiel, or any other interceptor or, most of the recons, any neuting BS. the list goes on.

I ask you this question. If you are so worried about having counters. What's the counter to Griffins and Kitsunes?
I don't see much for option on counters for those. The list of ships that counter an unscrammable inty is quite large in comparison.

Neuting BS is not a viable counter to interceptors.

Kitsune and griffin can be countered by: fitting ECCM, any ship with drones, damping ships like the maulus which damp them from outside jamming range, other jamming ships, auto targeting missiles and burning out of jamming range. (now please don't turn this into an ECM argument)

An unscrammable interceptor could be countered by the following: Some EaFs, some Recons(who can't participate in most lowsec pvp where interceptors will), other interceptors(arguable, since even another interceptor would have a hard time pinning another one down), dramiel(same problem as other interceptors) and daredevil. You could add cruor to the list but it's a little slow.

There are plenty of broken mechanics in the game with way to few counters, let's not add another one.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#49 - 2013-09-30 21:49:12 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:


Or dramiel, or any other interceptor or, most of the recons, any neuting BS. the list goes on.

I ask you this question. If you are so worried about having counters. What's the counter to Griffins and Kitsunes?
I don't see much for option on counters for those. The list of ships that counter an unscrammable inty is quite large in comparison.

Neuting BS is not a viable counter to interceptors.

Kitsune and griffin can be countered by: fitting ECCM, any ship with drones, damping ships like the maulus which damp them from outside jamming range, other jamming ships, auto targeting missiles and burning out of jamming range. (now please don't turn this into an ECM argument)

An unscrammable interceptor could be countered by the following: Some EaFs, some Recons(who can't participate in most lowsec pvp where interceptors will), other interceptors(arguable, since even another interceptor would have a hard time pinning another one down), dramiel(same problem as other interceptors) and daredevil. You could add cruor to the list but it's a little slow.

There are plenty of broken mechanics in the game with way to few counters, let's not add another one.


That's why I am completely against interdiction nullified intys. There is no counter to it.

And stop using your low sec sites as an argument. That is a VERY SMALL portion of the game that few people engage in. There is WAY more to this game then your low sec sites.
To me is sounds like you are afraid that intys might give your AF are run for its money in low sec sites.

Anyway i'm done talking to you. I have proven there is MANY counters to my idea. And you repeatedly ignore them.

Instead of blindly trying to prove my idea is imbalanced, try to be productive and come up with an idea to buff intys that doesn't make them OP. I would be more then happy to hear you ideas Smile
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#50 - 2013-09-30 21:56:47 UTC
Another Idea I have is to make a interceptor only MWD that is immune to warp srams. Make it take a large amount of PG so that minimal weaponry can be fit. this would have the same affect as intys that are immune to scrams but instead would limit the ship to a basic tackle role with no dps.

If you wanted to have a kiting inty with some dps then you could fit a normal MWD that uses less PG and then fit your guns or launchers.

This would make the ship more versatile but still give it limitations.
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#51 - 2013-09-30 22:29:56 UTC
Why not simply just buff their stats in the direction of their t1 bases? The attack frigates have a very good niche among the tech 1 frigs. Tackle ceptors are fine where they are if some buffs to fitting and targeting range would be implemented. The attack ones should all have 3 mids and a dps potential similar to AFs. I don't really see any reason why they should have less dps than AFs since they trade alot of tank for speed.

Lowsec pvp is not a small part of the game, each of the militias have around 5000 members and black rise/placid(the main caldari/gallente warzone) has as big kill statistics as the most active nullsec regions.

http://themittani.com/features/small-gang-pvp-heaven-black-riseplacid

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
Teth Razor
Chicks on Speed
Weapons Of Mass Production.
#52 - 2013-09-30 23:02:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Teth Razor
Randy Wray wrote:
Why not simply just buff their stats in the direction of their t1 bases? The attack frigates have a very good niche among the tech 1 frigs. Tackle ceptors are fine where they are if some buffs to fitting and targeting range would be implemented. The attack ones should all have 3 mids and a dps potential similar to AFs. I don't really see any reason why they should have less dps than AFs since they trade alot of tank for speed.

Lowsec pvp is not a small part of the game, each of the militias have around 5000 members and black rise/placid(the main caldari/gallente warzone) has as big kill statistics as the most active nullsec regions.

http://themittani.com/features/small-gang-pvp-heaven-black-riseplacid


Ether way intys need more of a buff then just a few stats. If nothing else it would be nice to see intys project damage better.
If they gave intys a range bonus along with keeping the damage bonus, and increased their lock range, then that would be cool as well.

But if CCP wants to add a new mechanic to intys, then they need to look to something else beside interdiction nullification.

Tbh I don't really care what they do as long as it is not nullification.
Snape Dieboldmotor
Minotaur Congress
#53 - 2013-09-30 23:16:31 UTC
I support a 'warp bubble immunity' on/off switch with default on
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#54 - 2013-10-01 07:56:44 UTC
Randy Wray wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Meditril wrote:
Teth Razor wrote:
In my opinion, the thing that intys need the most, is to be immune to the mwd canceling affects of a warp scram.


This is exactly what interceptors need most!


This would make them way to overpowered, especially kiting versions.



Not necessarily. As kiters they have very week dps, also neuts/webs would play a big role in killing them. The warp scram has become too necessary for pvp.

I would love to see a class of ship that you need to use webs and neuts to kill. Not just do the same old thing and slap on a scram.
U wot m8? It might not have much impact in large scale pvp but have you seen the way condors have dominated small scale frigate pvp in the past? There's no dam way an unscrammable crow would be balanced, no matter it's role in large scale warfare.


You should maybe first compare the DPS of a Missile Condor with the DPS of a Missile Crow or Malediction... they are really pathetic. Scram immunity would also make those Interceptors with only two mids and short range weapons useful (e.g. Claw).
Randy Wray
Warcrows
Sedition.
#55 - 2013-10-01 11:51:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Randy Wray
Meditril wrote:


You should maybe first compare the DPS of a Missile Condor with the DPS of a Missile Crow or Malediction... they are really pathetic. Scram immunity would also make those Interceptors with only two mids and short range weapons useful (e.g. Claw).
As I've stated there's alot better solutions to this issue than making them unscrammable. Anyhow the interceptors base stats CANNOT be kept the way they are right now if they should become more viable ships. Increasing their projection would be a very good idea, currently some interceptors only get one bonus from their base frigate skill. Adding a range bonus ontop of this would be really cool on some ships. For example I think the claw would be better off as a missile ship unless it's dps level would be buffed to wolf standards. The crusader however shouldn't get a range bonus because we already got the retri/slicer. There are other fun options like double damage bonus, resistance etc.

Solo Pvper in all areas of space including wormhole space. Check out my youtube channel @ http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCd6M3xV43Af-3E1ds0tTyew/feed for mostly small scale pvp in lowsec/nullsec

twitch.tv/randywray
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#56 - 2013-10-01 15:18:00 UTC
If the crusader recieved a mid and more cpu and locking range i would be so happy

Malediction needs more damage

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#57 - 2013-10-01 16:48:47 UTC
Busta Rock wrote:
I'm reposting this from a reply I made in the general discussion section:

I dont know really what to say about the idea of nullified interceptors.

scratch that. I do. it is the exact WRONG direction to take the interceptor class. let's look at what the term 'intercept' MEANS:

Quote:
in•ter•cept (v. ˌɪn tərˈsɛpt; n. ˈɪn tərˌsɛpt)
v.t.
1. to take, seize, or halt (someone or something on the way from one place to another); cut off from an intended destination: to intercept a messenger.
2. to secretly listen to or record (a transmitted communication).
3. to stop or interrupt the course, progress, or transmission of.
4. to take possession of (a ball or puck) during an attempted pass by an opposing team.
5. to stop or check (passage, travel, etc.): to intercept an escape.
6. to catch up to and destroy (an aircraft or missile).
7. Math. to mark off or include, as between two points or lines.
8. to intersect.
9. Obs. to prevent the operation or effect of.
10. Obs. to cut off from access, sight, etc.
n.
11. interception.
12. an intercepted communication.
13. Math.
a. an intercepted segment of a line.
b. (in a coordinate system) the distance from the origin to the point at which a curve or line intersects an axis.



[...]


+1 for trying to deduct a pixelspaceship's actual roles from a dictionary.

Next up: RoF for lasers needs to be set to 10^15/s to account for some random association one could spot!
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