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Dev blog: License to kill: Certificates Overhaul

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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#21 - 2013-09-30 17:35:34 UTC
A few comments:
- I would have preferred making training missiles harder than making training guns easier. I'll get over it.
- You're going to auto redeem all my hundreds of unclaimed certificates. :(
- You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Dalmont Delantee
Gecko Corp
#22 - 2013-09-30 17:36:49 UTC
In before "reimburse my skills for guns etc" bollocks
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#23 - 2013-09-30 17:38:20 UTC
looks good to me... cannot find anything i do not like. and big plus one for tech II weapon training...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Vestus Regula
Moratorium Inc.
#24 - 2013-09-30 17:39:37 UTC
Gunnery specialization requirements is what "balanced" that tree against missiles. On missiles, you could choose what to specialize on right away, but you had to train a different "base" skill on each tier for short and long range. That make specializing on a specific group quicker than guns, but on all of them slower. With this so called "tiercide" happening on the gunnery skills, that fine "balance" is gone through the window.

Is there anything planned for the missile skills tree or is that yet another way missiles are being rendered utterly useless and obsolete?
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#25 - 2013-09-30 17:40:12 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:

- You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it.


this!

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#26 - 2013-09-30 17:46:08 UTC
This is absolutely brilliant. Thank you!

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Ancy Denaries
Frontier Venture
#27 - 2013-09-30 17:47:11 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
A few comments:
- I would have preferred making training missiles harder than making training guns easier. I'll get over it.
- You're going to auto redeem all my hundreds of unclaimed certificates. :(
- You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it.

-Liang

1. Big deal honestly. The disrepency was huge, and it was rather silly for guns.
2. You'll also not have 300+ useless and pointless certs anymore.
3. What?

"Shoot at anything that moves. If it doesn't move, shoot it anyway, it might move later."

"Do not be too positive. The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train." - Franz Kafka
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
#28 - 2013-09-30 17:49:19 UTC
Vestus Regula wrote:
Gunnery specialization requirements is what "balanced" that tree against missiles. On missiles, you could choose what to specialize on right away, but you had to train a different "base" skill on each tier for short and long range. That make specializing on a specific group quicker than guns, but on all of them slower. With this so called "tiercide" happening on the gunnery skills, that fine "balance" is gone through the window.

Is there anything planned for the missile skills tree or is that yet another way missiles are being rendered utterly useless and obsolete?



I wouldn't mind seeing more support skills added to the Gunner tree.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-09-30 18:02:48 UTC
Sounds interesting; and "completionists" get something new to aim for? Hm... still won't train those silly 30 days for 2% more damage (yet)! :)

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Josef Djugashvilis
#30 - 2013-09-30 18:05:08 UTC
Antoine Jordan wrote:
Bring back Cert claiming, I love to click that button!


As do I, in the forlorn hope that I may have at least one to claim.Cry

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Xurr
Wasted Potential.
#31 - 2013-09-30 18:08:13 UTC
You'll keep tactical shield manipulation @ 5 as a requirement still (for the cert, or what ever it'll be called now) or will you be redoing that as well?

Feedback on Liang's idea for T2 ammo in faction guns would be cool to hear.
Alticus C Bear
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-09-30 18:15:49 UTC
Nice changes, is the ship skill itself required for the ship mastery level? If not it leaves a big hole in the suggested performance a ship might have as represented by the mastery level. I say this as I expected a slight difference in the mastery requirements between T1, pirate and T2 but it does not read as such in the blog.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#33 - 2013-09-30 18:20:01 UTC
Vestus Regula wrote:
Gunnery specialization requirements is what "balanced" that tree against missiles. On missiles, you could choose what to specialize on right away, but you had to train a different "base" skill on each tier for short and long range. That make specializing on a specific group quicker than guns, but on all of them slower. With this so called "tiercide" happening on the gunnery skills, that fine "balance" is gone through the window.

Is there anything planned for the missile skills tree or is that yet another way missiles are being rendered utterly useless and obsolete?

This. Missile training time to get all launchers in a tier is now nearly double (more than double, if you count Rapid Light and Rapid Heavy) the time to get both long/short range guns of a type in a tier.

With missile's advantage of no-previous-T2 being given to guns as well, guns' advantage of one-skill-per-tier needs to be given to missiles as well.
Wiu Ming
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-09-30 18:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Wiu Ming
thank goodness Astronautics Rigging V will be required for l33t megathron pilots. in b4 Nanothron doctrine...
Matokin Lemant
#35 - 2013-09-30 18:25:15 UTC
Umm I cant believe there is no one whining about "but I trained all the gunnery skills even tho I only wanted tech II large.....therefore by my logic you owe me free SP" Lol

Anyway I like the new large gunnery changes tho it will manly impact new players (and new alts) it will make battle ships easier to skill up for now.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-09-30 18:26:54 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
- You should make T2 ammo usable in faction guns while you're at it.


with the requirement to have the relevant gunnery spec trained, of course

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-09-30 18:27:50 UTC
If I understand your plans, the new certificate system is terrible. Take the navigation certificate shown in this dev blog: if you train according to the certificate you won't train microwarpdrives until level IV, the same level which recommends MJDs, astronautic rigging IV (what? Yes, I know, tech II rigs but that's seriously the same importance as being able to fit a MWD in your book?), navigation V, evasive maneuvering IV... you might as well just point players at the navigation skill tree. This is useless as a guide (not that the current navigation certificates are very good, they are in fact probably the worst set of certificates in the system today). I certainly hope you don't intend to have, for instance, a single gunnery certificate guiding new players down a road that goes nowhere fast. There's simplification and then there's oversimplification, this is the latter. I hope this is just a bad example of the new certificates, the point is surely to help people focus their training, not spread it out more.

On a more positive note, tech II turret skill changes. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#38 - 2013-09-30 18:34:21 UTC
hmm, I never checked the certs for the ships and weapons. I use EVEHQ and look the "Alter relevant skills"-menue for skills affecting the ships and modules.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#39 - 2013-09-30 18:35:48 UTC
Sweet stuff ! Especially the certificate part.

Of course for the regular eve player it won't change a thing, but the number of noobs asking me for clarifications about the certificate system is definitely worth this change :D

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-09-30 18:37:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
also, corp/alliance certificates would be a great thing, because otherwise we're stuck with ridiculous crap like this

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar