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Problems with small Artillerys

Author
Shantarius
Lost Patrol
#1 - 2013-09-30 16:26:09 UTC
Hello Community, hello DEVs,

In my encounters I figured some problems with kity frigates.

Well thats OK. So I thought, the best way to counter them would be a artilleryship.

I put my (last Version) EFT on and did some fittings. Well I tryed at least with no success.

Thats how I tryed it:

What would the best ship for a longrange setting? Thrasher, must be.

Set to all Lvl V, thats me.
Small Artilleries: awsome, 280mm Howitzer II Cool

7 of them into the Ship and Shocked there are 5 points of Powergrid left, 5 (in Words five) is not even enough for an afterburner.

Ok, I thought maybe the large Brother, the Sabre can do this. But shortly after, I realized, the Sabre has even less PG than the Thrasher.

Ok lets try the Wolf, that should do it. Well, the Wolf is a litle bit better, you can put 4 of the 280er Artys on it and at least an Afterburner. MWD? No Way! Iam not even talking of any tank.

I see definitly no reasonable way to fit those 280mm artillerys. No, I dont want it for suizide ganking with the Lowslots full of Reactor Controls, I want it for ordinary PVP, with at least a MWD on it without the rigslots or Reactor Controls.

Maybe there is some way of thinking behind these prerequisites but I cant figure it out.

The 250er Artys are a little bit better, but it is still very hard to do something sensible, not possible even to try a rudimentary tank.

I hope you guys can help me here and tell me why the prereqs of the guns are the way they are.

Sincerely, Shantarius

Magormor
Homicidal Suicidal
#2 - 2013-09-30 16:35:28 UTC
for Frigs, 1x http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=11563

should let you fit it. and not gimp you too bad.
Goldensaver
Maraque Enterprises
Just let it happen
#3 - 2013-09-30 16:36:26 UTC
If you look at the alpha, there's enough to volley right through a frigate with 280's. That's why it's so hard to fit them.
Bertrand Butler
Cras es Noster
#4 - 2013-09-30 16:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Bertrand Butler
Its true that 280 arties require a lot of PG, as much as beam lasers do (while Amarr hulls tend to have more PG to work with).

Having said that, if you indeed have lvl V skills, you can produce a very fun alpha thrasher with 280s, that can hit with a volley of 1750 and 300DPS hot anywhere in scram range. Complete with an MSE and MWD to boot.

[Thrasher, at]

Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
Caleidascope
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-30 16:40:17 UTC
Ah, I see you discovered the flaws of being EFT Warrior!
Carry on.

Life is short and dinner time is chancy

Eat dessert first!

Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-09-30 18:42:46 UTC
Arties and AC's need to be brought closer together fittings wise.. the way it is now stands in the way of proper balance.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-09-30 18:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
280s are really, really good. I find myself perfectly willing to drop in the odd fitting mod or implant in order to fit 280s on a Wolf or a Thrasher. I'd be wary of making them any easier to fit, lest 250s be made pointless.
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#8 - 2013-10-01 08:19:57 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Arties and AC's need to be brought closer together fittings wise.. the way it is now stands in the way of proper balance.


At which point every fit would simply be arty fit for the insane alpha they give.
Shantarius
Lost Patrol
#9 - 2013-10-01 08:22:34 UTC
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Its true that 280 arties require a lot of PG, as much as beam lasers do (while Amarr hulls tend to have more PG to work with).

Having said that, if you indeed have lvl V skills, you can produce a very fun alpha thrasher with 280s, that can hit with a volley of 1750 and 300DPS hot anywhere in scram range. Complete with an MSE and MWD to boot.

[Thrasher, at]

Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I



Thank you for that one.
You see, 1 fitting and 2 Rigslots "missused" for fitting issues, lots of expensive Meta4 Stuff, not even a T2 Point is not what I call reasonable. That could be a stopgap assistance for Players without all Lvl V Skills but it can not be the propper way to use those Items.

I tryed something equal with the coercer, it is a little bit better in case of PG but CPU is the issue there.

I think those small long range guns need some rebalancing. It is understandable, that a long range Sniperbattleship does not need a Propulsionmod, but in frigfights, where the distances are covered much quicker, a propmod is essential.
A battleship, which uses 1 of 6 Lows for a Fittingmod is something different than a Frig / Dessi with only 2 or 3 Lows.
Gh0stBust3rs
Templars HIghsec
Stellar Fusion
#10 - 2013-10-01 08:33:22 UTC
Shantarius wrote:
Bertrand Butler wrote:
Its true that 280 arties require a lot of PG, as much as beam lasers do (while Amarr hulls tend to have more PG to work with).

Having said that, if you indeed have lvl V skills, you can produce a very fun alpha thrasher with 280s, that can hit with a volley of 1750 and 300DPS hot anywhere in scram range. Complete with an MSE and MWD to boot.

[Thrasher, at]

Gyrostabilizer II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Azeotropic Ward Salubrity I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[Empty High slot]

Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I



Thank you for that one.
You see, 1 fitting and 2 Rigslots "missused" for fitting issues, lots of expensive Meta4 Stuff, not even a T2 Point is not what I call reasonable. That could be a stopgap assistance for Players without all Lvl V Skills but it can not be the propper way to use those Items.

I tryed something equal with the coercer, it is a little bit better in case of PG but CPU is the issue there.

I think those small long range guns need some rebalancing. It is understandable, that a long range Sniperbattleship does not need a Propulsionmod, but in frigfights, where the distances are covered much quicker, a propmod is essential.
A battleship, which uses 1 of 6 Lows for a Fittingmod is something different than a Frig / Dessi with only 2 or 3 Lows.


Even long range battleships have prop mods. Its kinda necessary to get out of things like bubbles.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#11 - 2013-10-01 08:49:27 UTC
With the Arty Wolf, you simply aren't trying hard enough.

[Wolf, my alpha brings all the bads to the yard]
Gyrostabilizer II
Co-Processor II
Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II

Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
280mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Collision Accelerator II
Small Projectile Ambit Extension I


2 shotting inties erryday m8s.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#12 - 2013-10-01 14:47:11 UTC
Most of the destroyers have fitting issues. The Thrasher if anything is pretty generous with it's fitting grid by comparison. The only time you start having issues with the ship is when 280s come into play. Even then you can fit a full rack of 280s and a MWD with only one fitting rig or mod. My Thrasher has an 1854 alpha with faction EMP, Fusion, or PP. It also has no tank and quite frankly I don't roam in it anymore in low sec unless I'm with friends. Thrashers these days are more of a pack animal.

The Rail Catalyst is much more flexible and forgiving with quick ammo changes, speed and agility, as well as a much higher DPS and ROF. In the age where every other frigate has a TD on it 10 seconds is simply too long to get another ammo out.