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Could null sec survive without high sec?

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Felicity Love
Doomheim
#21 - 2013-09-29 23:39:59 UTC
Be interesting as all Hell to see the Null Bears put their ISK where their mouths are if that ever became the case. I very much doubt the sandbox will ever see that kind of "social engineering". Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#22 - 2013-09-30 00:35:23 UTC
Pretty sure there's still Tritanium in nullsec.

Think about it, there is nothing, nothing whatsoever in highsec that is irreplaceable.

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One of ours, ten of theirs.

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Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2013-09-30 01:47:23 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:

Also what kind of fleet would you need to completely blockade all entrances to null sec perfectly 24/7?


You don't even know what a jump freighter is. Go home.


Damn some people are so mean Shocked He is trying to be a bad guy let hem give him his moment for some seconds. Before we bash the **** out of this threat Big smile

OP please do some info next time when you post this.
Hypercake Mix
#24 - 2013-09-30 02:09:19 UTC
Possible, but not probable. Choosing between boring survival and death by explosions, they'd probably choose death.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#25 - 2013-09-30 02:11:53 UTC
Lack of supply would kill nullsec, and lack of demand would kill highsec.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-09-30 02:21:42 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:

Damn some people are so mean Shocked He is trying to be a bad guy let hem give him his moment for some seconds. Before we bash the **** out of this threat Big smile


Fair enough. I will say that I think null would be much more interesting if it were a lot harder to get things from highsec. And it's actually pretty frustrating to spend time training industrial skills, researching a bunch of BPOs, getting minerals to assembly lines (harder than you might think), then getting finished product to the local market hub without dying in a gate camp, only to have some jackass with a bunch of isk to spend import the same damn thing from Jita by jump freighter and start a goddamn penny ante race to poverty.
Darkwolf
#27 - 2013-09-30 02:23:18 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
You can't jump into highsec only out of it

if you gatecamp both the gates on the null sec entrance system. We might not be able to see a covert jump field but if we put up warp jammers all around the gate to pull you out of warp and then blow you apart before you've got to the gate.

If its a big enough camp we should have the dps.


Uh huh.

There are 229 lowsec systems which have a highsec gate. Haven't bothered checking how many stations are in those systems. Jump Freighters typically cyno into a LS station, dock up there and then re-enter highsec by warping to the gate. You can't bubble in lowsec. Once that JF gets into warp to the highsec gate, it's basically unstoppable.

That's an awful, awful lot of station undock camping that would be required.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2013-09-30 02:30:06 UTC
Darkwolf wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
You can't jump into highsec only out of it

if you gatecamp both the gates on the null sec entrance system. We might not be able to see a covert jump field but if we put up warp jammers all around the gate to pull you out of warp and then blow you apart before you've got to the gate.

If its a big enough camp we should have the dps.


Uh huh.

There are 229 lowsec systems which have a highsec gate. Haven't bothered checking how many stations are in those systems. Jump Freighters typically cyno into a LS station, dock up there and then re-enter highsec by warping to the gate. You can't bubble in lowsec. Once that JF gets into warp to the highsec gate, it's basically unstoppable.

That's an awful, awful lot of station undock camping that would be required.


Yep. Probably the best way highsec could embargo null without a fleet of tens of thousands, would be to have a bunch of people suicide ganking freighters in Jita for a few days. That would have a serious effect on the supply of goods to null. I think if the OP organized something like that, null would stand up and take notice.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#29 - 2013-09-30 02:39:55 UTC
Survive is probably the wrong word, as they would obviously survive. But everything would be completely different, and nullsec would have to change alot to accomidate. Highsec is the economic and industrial heart of EvE. Even though alot of nullsec players have nothing but distain for the players that have chosen to live there, they cannot deny how important it is for them, and how much they rely upon Empire to sell and buy their goods.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#30 - 2013-09-30 02:40:41 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
If null sec were totally cut off from high the thing null would eventually run out of is players.

New players start in the rookie systems, in high sec. With a total cut off they could not get to null. Eventually as null sec players lost interest and moved to other activities null would run out.

High sec would have a different issue: High end minerals. There is only a tiny supply of megacyte, and no supply of Morphite. (Unless high would still have access to W space).

I guess you haven't heard of Pod jumping.

If you could pod jump to null, then null would not be totally cut off from high sec, and the OP's original premise would not apply.

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Azeroth Uluntil
Last Chance for Redemption
FFEW Associates
#31 - 2013-09-30 04:21:22 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Survive is probably the wrong word, as they would obviously survive. But everything would be completely different, and nullsec would have to change alot to accomidate. Highsec is the economic and industrial heart of EvE. Even though alot of nullsec players have nothing but distain for the players that have chosen to live there, they cannot deny how important it is for them, and how much they rely upon Empire to sell and buy their goods.




Only reason we would have issues in null-sec is the lack of bpos on the market. Otherwise, it would be business as normal for us. It would take some time to adjust, but we can literally live without empire if needed. Invention actually made that possible, so long as we have some bpos or bpos on the market in npc stations in 0.0. Or even purchasable from mission agents.

We don't need you. You need us.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2013-09-30 04:47:29 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Darkwolf wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
You can't jump into highsec only out of it

if you gatecamp both the gates on the null sec entrance system. We might not be able to see a covert jump field but if we put up warp jammers all around the gate to pull you out of warp and then blow you apart before you've got to the gate.

If its a big enough camp we should have the dps.


Uh huh.

There are 229 lowsec systems which have a highsec gate. Haven't bothered checking how many stations are in those systems. Jump Freighters typically cyno into a LS station, dock up there and then re-enter highsec by warping to the gate. You can't bubble in lowsec. Once that JF gets into warp to the highsec gate, it's basically unstoppable.

That's an awful, awful lot of station undock camping that would be required.


Yep. Probably the best way highsec could embargo null without a fleet of tens of thousands, would be to have a bunch of people suicide ganking freighters in Jita for a few days. That would have a serious effect on the supply of goods to null. I think if the OP organized something like that, null would stand up and take notice.

So... a burn jita

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#33 - 2013-09-30 04:52:45 UTC
The Spod wrote:
There are player and NPC stations in nullsec. Nullsec is independent of highsec, and highsec is independent of nullsec.


Um..not even close.
If null sec disappeared, T2 production would be shred of what it is today. given the percentage of R32 and R62 moons in low sec, compared to null sec.

If high sec was wiped out (which happens more with every release), null sec would maintain their massive income, but the players would be bored out of their minds, as there would be no one left to grief, because many null sec players will shoot back, or rather, have game mechanics that allows them to shoot back.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#34 - 2013-09-30 05:07:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
The Spod wrote:
There are player and NPC stations in nullsec. Nullsec is independent of highsec, and highsec is independent of nullsec.


Um..not even close.
If null sec disappeared, T2 production would be shred of what it is today. given the percentage of R32 and R62 moons in low sec, compared to null sec.

If high sec was wiped out (which happens more with every release), null sec would maintain their massive income, but the players would be bored out of their minds, as there would be no one left to grief, because many null sec players will shoot back, or rather, have game mechanics that allows them to shoot back.

progodlegend would continue to fight until gsf was destroyed or n3 was

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mr Pragmatic
#35 - 2013-09-30 06:14:38 UTC
I support leaving the peons out of hi sec. Hi sec is a privilege that nullturds crap all over.

Super cali hella yolo swaga dopeness.  -Yoloswaggins, in the fellowship of the bling.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#36 - 2013-09-30 07:26:44 UTC
Karak Terrel wrote:
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Terrible thread.

I agree. He's stopped crying, which is a progress. But his threads are still... interesting.

Oh right, was that the t2 guns guy? That would explain a lot.



Was the OP not also the guy who claimed that rockets were the worst weapon system in the game?

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#37 - 2013-09-30 10:05:35 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
theoretically could null sec players survive if access to low/high sec were severed?



No. For one thing, BPOs are only created in empire. Likewise skillbooks and also datacores, required for T2 production. New players all start in empire, so no new recruits could join 0.0

This is leaving aside the incredible level of effective subsidies productive professions get in Empire compared to 0.0

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#38 - 2013-09-30 10:21:49 UTC
oh look, another "nerf hisec" thread. now with an integrated "nerf nullsec" thread.
OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#39 - 2013-09-30 11:01:59 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
theoretically could null sec players survive if access to low/high sec were severed?

I suspect that they could survive at least either through POS production (assuming that blueprints are around) and fleet mining and internal trading. But the massive profits enjoyed by null sec corps would be gone along with the large scale wars that these empires funded. In fact pretty much all conflict would die of in null sec as the resource cost of ships have massively increased, especially tech 2 items due to the research requirements since those blueprints you need for tech 2 versions are now irreplaceable.

Meanwhile in high sec there are swings and roundabounts. At first the market would crash a bit as the flow of null resources stop and prices of ships rise. But on the other hand the demand for ships to fight the null sec wars decline so after a while the market would return to some form of stability. The main place where this isn't true however would be in mercoxit which would completely cripple tech 2 high sec production.

So in other words on both areas of space the tech 2 industry is crippled.

Edit: And before anyone says all mercoxit comes from sleeper. Shh. We're talking economic systems here.

Also what kind of fleet would you need to completely blockade all entrances to null sec perfectly 24/7?

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Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2013-09-30 11:13:48 UTC
Easy answer is yes.

Nullsec = SOV and NPC null. Anything like CONCORD office to turn in overlord drops, BPO's, etc. Those could easily be added to a given station in NPC null to make it 100% isolated.
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