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The Origami Project: Suggest your graphics "little things" (May 22)

First post
Author
Crucis Cassiopeiae
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#81 - 2011-11-15 21:50:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Crucis Cassiopeiae
bornaa wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons. V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!


Don't do bare minimum... please... make this for EVE...
GO NUTS... Big smile
Make it all with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines...
and option to turn that things off for ppl that can't/don't want it...

Please... make EVE the best you can so that EVE can compete with other games...



THIS!!!
soooo this... BearBig smile
GO SO NUTS... Twisted

I want to drool when i enter EVE... AttentionBig smile
I want that other ppl drool when see me playing EVE... Cool
I want them feel bad that they play some other ugly game and not EVE... Twisted

Vote Issler Dainze for CSM7! http://community.eveonline.com/council/voting/Vote.asp?c=470 

McRoll
Extraction and Exploration Ltd.
#82 - 2011-11-15 21:53:02 UTC
I suggested it in another thread already, I'd love to see maneuvring thruster effects on all ships like on the Enherji fighter. It would add greatly to immersion when a Rifter fires a side thruster when turning around. It would also feel more like a spaceship and less like a submarine.

Just some flame exhausts on nose and sides and thats it, should be no big problem.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#83 - 2011-11-15 21:57:50 UTC
McRoll wrote:
I suggested it in another thread already, I'd love to see maneuvring thruster effects on all ships like on the Enherji fighter. It would add greatly to immersion when a Rifter fires a side thruster when turning around. It would also feel more like a spaceship and less like a submarine.

Just some flame exhausts on nose and sides and thats it, should be no big problem.


if you were going for realism, engine flare and engine trails would have to be removed, as you'd just be using tiny bursts.
Lord Helghast
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2011-11-15 22:08:01 UTC
Go nuts!!!!!!!!!!!! Serially explosions and wrecks and missiles are big ones so are the crappy gas clouds.... I think everyone will agree go nuts with effects... Just have ability to turn them down when posssible or off when needed... And u will have EVERYONE HAPPY
Jodis Talvanen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#85 - 2011-11-15 22:11:00 UTC



Like this post if you think camera flares need a rework.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2011-11-15 22:14:08 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons. V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!


Until it melts my GTX 580, it is not too hard on the hardware Big smile

Just do two versions of all effects - very basic "information only, minimal GPU load" effect for crap systems and super shiny goodness for high ends. Those with real PCs can run with the shiny, rest can use the minimal effects.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2011-11-15 22:17:41 UTC
Once again, thanks to the community and developers for the attention to this. I believe it's the little things that count, and from what I can tell there are a lot of others that agree.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons.


For the most part, I think the community agrees with these priorities. Someone correct me if you feel differently.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.


I'm a broken record on this subject, but good effects and animations will always outweigh polygon counts. "Realistic-looking" games are only so for a few years, but good aesthetics and style will last forever.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?


My opinion is that with all the effects turned on, EvE should lead the industry in graphical prowess and originality. However, scalability is key for any game that requires longevity (i.e. any MMO). For example, you'll notice Blizzard's older games are still available at retail. We're talking games that are over ten years old that are still being played. I swear, about every two years one of my friends gets the bright idea that we should all buy Diablo II and play it up old school on Battle.net. And we can, because the thing runs on netbooks.

On this subject, I'm going to once again draw attention to the explosions. Don't get me wrong; I can see the effort that went into them. But there are other games (plug no. 2 in this thread alone) that do a lot more with a lot less. Good mathematics/programming and 3D artists will never replace a talented 2D artist in my mind.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Thanks!


And you as well.

Occasionally plays sober

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#88 - 2011-11-15 22:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!

well. If i where you i would consider introducing a "very high" shader option. All effects which make the client run noticeable slower should go into this category. This will avoid all the pain with people on old hardware and would make you also look cool for the hw enthusiasts. However this may also increase maintenance costs since you have to maintain multiple shaders in some cases.

There are people fighting in null which will disable almost any effect anyway. Others who do exploration or small fleet warefare may have enough resources to enable everything. Performance based lod would be an option too... rage and supreme commander 1 are doing this. You can see it fairly easy in SC1 as soon you have hundreds of units on the field shaders just get swaped out.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#89 - 2011-11-15 22:28:46 UTC
also. As a dev... know your enemy. Learn from others (both mistakes and the good things) and make it better.
classic games you should play:
- nexus the jupiter incident (!)
- independence war 2
- X2 + X3
- freespace

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#90 - 2011-11-15 22:30:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aphoxema G
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that?



  • Larger portraits in chat, maybe scaling with text size... but I might not need larger text anymore with the new font. I thought I was just getting old and blind. I guess I was just working really hard to tell the difference between a D and a zero.
  • Bring back the magnifying glass, but bigger and sexier.
  • Alternating background between lines to separate them better ( such as http://tinypic.com/r/169oxt4/5 )
  • Resizable or scaling brackets and/or
  • Cursor snap over brackets when holding control/alt
  • Resizable or scaling ship status (or a much plainer option like shown on targets with three gray/red bars)
  • Resizable cursor
  • Break out space-view as a window instead of background to everything else. Could be great for multiple monitors without having to extend a single window, particularly if any pane could be freed from the EVE window.
  • Find a better way to inherent window locations when changing resolutions
  • Allow the Station Services window to be grouped (helps with lower resolutions)
  • Resizable/repositionable notification boxes
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#91 - 2011-11-15 22:33:17 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that?


Larger portraits in chat, maybe scaling with text size... but I might not need larger text anymore with the new font. I thought I was just getting old and blind. I guess I was just working really hard to tell the difference between a D and a zero.


There are people who keep chat portraits on??
mkint
#92 - 2011-11-15 22:36:24 UTC
bornaa wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons. V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!


Don't do bare minimum... please... make this for EVE...
GO NUTS... Big smile
Make it all with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines...
and option to turn that things off for ppl that can't/don't want it...

Please... make EVE the best you can so that EVE can compete with other games...

let's make sure I get this... so, for example, we could have turret effects that are more GPU intensive than lolincarna launch day, or we can turn them off to have no turret effects at all? Not sure I'd support that.

When planning for advanced graphics, there are a few things to consider...

1) the client is horribly horribly optimized. Seriously, stuff that should cause absolutely zero FPS drops (brackets in space) can trash performance. That kind of basic stuff that even WIndows 3.11 got right should have NEVER made it into the game the way it has. I don't know why this isn't a bigger issue... we are already forced to sacrifice playability either in FPS or in situational awareness. Dumping more dev resources into hurting the FPS even more sounds stupid to me when you can't even keep basic functionality that other developers mastered in the 1990's.
2) this is an MMO. If you design the client for the top 1% of your potential customers, and leave the rest with bad/no graphics, the majority of your trials accounts won't subscribe. They will assume they either don't qualify for the game, or that the graphics fundamentally suck. Existing customers might stick around. Maybe. But you wouldn't deserve them.

I'm all for having graphics improve. But any idiot company can crank up the resolution, add a bazillion layers of shaders and skins and effects. It takes talented devs to improve the visual quality while yielding absolutely zero drop performance. Consider analog art... the greatest artists of all time discovered techniques to use the materials that have been around for thousands of years in new ways. Amazing art trumps amazing technology, every damned time.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Elanor Vega
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2011-11-15 22:36:52 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons. V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!



Go NUTS as much as you can... Big smile
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#94 - 2011-11-15 22:41:49 UTC
Artillery turrets need to be bigger, with larger fireballs at the muzzles, to bring back that WW II Battleship feeling.

http://de.valka.cz/files/ia-1984guns_107.jpg

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Selar Nox
#95 - 2011-11-15 22:45:12 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
This thread delivers. Please keep it coming. Ofc, we have our own lists of things we feel is important. For example missiles are very high on it, so are explosions, many non-weapon/turret effects and gas clouds in dungeons. V3 shaders will allow very cool lighting effects in space once that effort is done ( will take time ). Your suggestions are being read and popular items or novel new ideas are being considered and weighed against everything else.

One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that? Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines or keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops? Or allow just allow people to turn stuff off?

Thanks!


Sorted by priorities (from high to minor):

  1. automatic load balanced LOD
  2. just allow people to turn stuff off
  3. Go nuts with modern state of the art effects that require powerful machines
  4. keep it to a bare minimum so that it runs on 10 year old craptops

Not entirey sure about the last 2 points as I am running EVE on a laptop with Intel Graphics (G45) P
E man Industries
SeaChell Productions
#96 - 2011-11-15 22:45:22 UTC
I run 2 clients.

I want supper shiney gfx goodness...on one acount
my alt in station or support I want to have almost no load

For my main in the super shinney mode having it scale back automatically in a big fight would be a plus.
mkint
#97 - 2011-11-15 22:47:45 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Artillery turrets need to be bigger, with larger fireballs at the muzzles, to bring back that WW II Battleship feeling.

http://de.valka.cz/files/ia-1984guns_107.jpg


ok, got a little wood from that one.

While we're fantasizing crazy stuff, what about making gunfire swirl the dust clouds?

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#98 - 2011-11-15 22:50:56 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Aphoxema G wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
One thing we have to consider is scalability. What is your opinion on that?


Larger portraits in chat, maybe scaling with text size... but I might not need larger text anymore with the new font. I thought I was just getting old and blind. I guess I was just working really hard to tell the difference between a D and a zero.


There are people who keep chat portraits on??


I do when I'm just talking and not actually getting anything done. Strangely, the older avatar portraits did a better job of being distinguishable at small sizes.
Tepir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2011-11-15 22:51:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tepir
CCP Choloepus wrote:
This thread is relevant to my interests. Simple graphical glitches, areas with poor visual feedback or things that are just lacking a 'wow' factor that should be intrinsic are all great to know about.

Not sure we should try to code away the brown though, sorry Dirk.



Can you answer me when do you plan to implement gamma(brightness) settings in EvE client ?
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#100 - 2011-11-15 22:54:01 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Artillery turrets need to be bigger, with larger fireballs at the muzzles, to bring back that WW II Battleship feeling.

http://de.valka.cz/files/ia-1984guns_107.jpg



I literally posted that volley from a different angle on page 2. Blink