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Implications of Losing the Customs Office HighSec ISK Sink?
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Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#1 - 2013-09-29 02:55:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Nivo Green
**************
So CCP announced that they are leaving the NPC tax on top of the new player tax so this isn't even a valid question anymore.

/thread
**************

With EVE Online's coming expansion CCP has claimed that high sec custom offices will be able to be replaced with POCO. Many people have claimed that this is either stupid, as high sec resource harvesting sucks, or that the nullsec evil cartels will ruin the game. Regardless of these claims, there are still a ton of people fully living in high sec, and no doubt a large amount of higher tier PI production takes place in high sec around the hubs.

Until now this has always been NPC taxed as an isk sink, but with the coming change this will go away for all significant traffic highsec customs offices. My question to CCP is is this a significant ISK sink, and if it is what are they doing to counteract the loss of it if anything at all? If CCP thinks that there will be profitable customs offices, then they will be losing that tax with Rubicon. Looking at tier 4 PI components, there is about 500 billion ISK moved in that market a day globally, with about 45.9 billion moved daily in jita. Even if we only assumed 10% of this market was built in highsec planets, it still amounts to probably 25-50 billion isk a day which is getting taxed in highsec custom offices in t4 alone. Thats about 2.5 to 5 billion isk removed per day if its only 10%. This is not that significant at 10%, but I believe that quiet a lot more PI happens in high sec, and I did not even look at tier 2-3 products which are also likely produced.

Anyway CCP likely has much better data on this, and their choice to move forward with it likely means they either don't need the sink, or it's not that big of a deal. What?
mechtech
Ice Liberation Army
#2 - 2013-09-29 03:04:23 UTC  |  Edited by: mechtech
Theoretically the loss of the isk sink will be counteracted by the PI material sink of player destroyable POCOs, which will raise PI demand and thus reverberate all the way down to T2 production in the form of raising build costs. Whether the scale of POCO destruction will make up for the isk sink remains to be seen, and might be unlikely.

Of course Eve seems to be a bit short on the isk sink side of the equation right now, so I agree that it's a marginal move from an economic standpoint, but this change honestly won't shake the economy one way or another in the grand scheme of things.
Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#3 - 2013-09-29 03:08:08 UTC
Your POCOs will be 100% safe in high-sec.

Thank You Obama!
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#4 - 2013-09-29 03:12:32 UTC
Skill Training Online wrote:
Your POCOs will be 100% safe in high-sec.


Perhaps CCP is just counting the ISK sink of buying new POCO BPC's to easily counteract the loss of taxes. I mean, there are a shitload of planets that will be getting new POCOs
SpoonRECKLESS
Beach Boys
The Minions.
#5 - 2013-09-29 03:43:56 UTC
The amount of wars that will be started by this is the isk sink. Mercs will have even more useful role in high sec, Killing Pocos will become big money.I for one will enjoy the local banter to become common around heavy traffic areas.

Blue
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-09-29 04:16:05 UTC
I'm sure highsec PI was such a significant ISK sink...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nivo Green
Stac Enterprises
#7 - 2013-09-29 04:18:40 UTC
SpoonRECKLESS wrote:
The amount of wars that will be started by this is the isk sink. Mercs will have even more useful role in high sec, Killing Pocos will become big money.I for one will enjoy the local banter to become common around heavy traffic areas.


I agree, it will be awesome to see some real political landscape develop over the space the is High Sec.
Daisai
Daisai Investments.
#8 - 2013-09-29 04:45:24 UTC
Poco and pos bashing and station games...

Isn't high sec pvp just awesome...
Aivo Dresden
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-29 09:47:28 UTC
You do realise that you can set the tax rate right? Why would anyone go through the trouble of trashing your POCO if you have a low tax rate already? I'd rather just use the practically free structure that's already anchored in space than haul my own half way across the map just to gain 1-2 more mill a week ...
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#10 - 2013-09-29 09:55:23 UTC
I'd be more worried about people with the power to control highsec POCO's and imposing crazy tax levels. In turn, this could have significant effect on PI prices, and not to mention being a big generator of highsec PvP. Up until now carebears have been more than happy with interbus tax levels, using PI as a passive form of isk generation. This is going to change real quick once they've all been destroyed, and various corporations and alliances fight over control. Stable tax levels are going to be a thing of the past!

Still, signifcant profits can be made for those willing and able to control and hold onto highsec POCO dominance! Cool

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2013-09-29 10:02:56 UTC
Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk.
Xorionna
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-09-29 10:04:05 UTC
Aivo Dresden wrote:
Why would anyone go through the trouble of trashing your POCO if you have a low tax rate already?


For the killmail ? because it's not mine ? Because 50 of my corp mates are doing the same and we made a contest about it ? To loot the PI in the wreck ? Because if my office is not destroyed I'll be able to sell my PI at higher price ? To get some tears ?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-09-29 10:22:39 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk.


Aye, and drop the bounties on nullsec rats and reduce incursion payouts too, so as not to victimize one form of income.

Dodixie > Hek
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2013-09-29 10:26:50 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Nerf high sec level 4s. From november all mission rewards are reduced by 10 isk.


Aye, and drop the bounties on nullsec rats and reduce incursion payouts too, so as not to victimize one form of income.


No no just level 4s. That way we will get people who will read just the first part about a nerf and make ragenoughts we can all laugh at.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#15 - 2013-09-29 11:09:20 UTC
mechtech wrote:
Theoretically the loss of the isk sink will be counteracted by the PI material sink of player destroyable POCOs


Except destroying assets in an isolated system increases demand, and therefore the cost... which only exacerbates inflation. Any change in assets in Eve doesn't reduce or increase inflation, only the destruction or introduction of ISK does.

If we're losing an ISK sink, then inflation will be increased. No ifs and buts about it. Any change in amounts of assets by creation or destruction makes no difference.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#16 - 2013-09-29 11:22:12 UTC
$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#17 - 2013-09-29 11:36:06 UTC
Nivo Green wrote:
My question to CCP is is this a significant ISK sink, and if it is what are they doing to counteract the loss of it if anything at all?


So, you are not even sure this is an issue at all, and you are whining in an Forum OP Poast about it ?

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#18 - 2013-09-29 12:12:32 UTC
It's the natural follow on step from PI, both remove NPC influence from the marketplace. You can be pretty sure they ran it past Dr Eggnog, it certainly fits in with both what players have been asking for, and CCPs desire for a player driven economy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Syds Sinclair
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-09-29 12:44:32 UTC
..At least CCP raised the cost of WarDecs exponentially to the number of members in a corp. What's the going rate of decing GoonWaffe? Gonna be pretty expensive to shoot all of their HiSec POCOs.

♠ Sinclair Consulting ♠
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-09-29 12:47:28 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
$5 says someone monopolizes the POCOs and implements a 100% tax to shutdown all high-sec PI.



If we're really lucky Goons will fall for this obvious CCP trap and their hold on null will be broken when a portion of their fleet is off protecting silly pocos while someone else is nibbling away at their nulpire.

Don't ban me, bro!
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