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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Tzu Wu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#581 - 2013-09-28 19:51:17 UTC
Exactly Andski.The real reason CCP supports blink is because its a cash cow for them.Allot of the players on there buy plex through blink via CCP for isk to gamble with.There is favoritism because of that.Most of their fan boys will chalk all it up to jealousy but of us with common sense know the difference of what is right and what is wrong.
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#582 - 2013-09-28 19:52:45 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
My point is ... if you want to work some kind of promotion deal with CCP then do something exceptional. There are no A's for effort.

Ok. And my point is that I don't want a promotion deal with CCP (nor does anyone of the opposers in this thread IIRC) and that I don't want any ingame for-profit organization to get direct ingame support by CCP.

CCP's repeatedly self-proclaimed intention is to provide a sandbox and let the players decide the course of the game with generally as few CCP interference as possible. This current action clearly contradicts that by distorting competition without any need (that I can see) to do so.
Tzu Wu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#583 - 2013-09-28 19:57:04 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Sid Hudgens wrote:
My point is ... if you want to work some kind of promotion deal with CCP then do something exceptional. There are no A's for effort.

Ok. And my point is that I don't want a promotion deal with CCP (nor does anyone of the opposers in this thread IIRC) and that I don't want any ingame for-profit organization to get direct ingame support by CCP.

CCP's repeatedly self-proclaimed intention is to provide a sandbox and let the players decide the course of the game with generally as few CCP interference as possible. This current action clearly contradicts that by distorting competition without any need (that I can see) to do so.


Lets also be honest with the fact that CCP itself is terrible at creating content and loves to depend on the players to come up with it.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#584 - 2013-09-28 20:02:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Memnon Shepard
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
And what if goons got to decide who was allowed to bid/have a chance, and could exclude people for their own reasons?

And what if that method gives goons - or whoever - a direct advantage over competing in game groups, via the access to special items only they have, or from the direct endorsements from CCP employees, making unproven, unjustifiable claims about their legitimacy and history?

And why would you be ok with CCP forcing you to deal with any specific in game group in order to access / have a chance at accessing all the content in the game, or special events/give aways?

I'm not.


They would have earned that benefit through their in-game actions as determined by CCP. It seems that in this case Blink was chosen because they have done quite a bit for the community by choosing to spend their earned ISK in a way that both boosted their visibility and helped many players. They provide prizes for tournaments that drive turnout, pay the people that work for them fairly (and handsomely - no, I don't work for Blink), funded player initiatives often when requested, and have run the business over a period of several years. Their website is innovative - people don't have to wait days for an email to find out who wins lotteries. Lotteries are completely legitimate in a free-market environment whether people like them or not. Their method for distributing the prizes is fair save for people who want to play on multiple IP addresses at the same time - a small minority of Eve players I would imagine (and what would the alternative solution be to prevent spamming - I haven't seen one). It's not perfect, I think this is well understood - this is a trial for these types of promotions. I've mentioned a system where maybe 25 in-game corps chosen by CCP for their in-game behavior (like running free forums, informational videos, creating something unique, running a popular service a ton of people use every day, whatever) could bid on unique ships so long as they created proposals for distribution that were fair and inclusive. One ticket for every Red Frog jump used, one ticket for every day of Goonswarm Space rented, one ticket for every million units of Trit bought on contract from Corp X, whatever. The bids for the items would be tied to the value those corps think they would be able to bring in from the resulting exposure by being sponsors. They'd also have to pony up the ISK of the bid to CCP, which players would then compete for in live tournaments.

Once again, we can argue all day over Blink's legitimacy - a corporation is legitimate until they prove otherwise if they have a track record of success and a legion of customers. This is my personal opinion, and this may not be the best way to approach things (especially in Eve Online) but it's also not fair to brand them as criminals with no evidence to prove this - and people have been trying for a very long time. It's a strange middle ground, where there's some trust involved and some common sense involved - similar to trading stocks and purchasing companies in real life. Do the research and come to a decision of your own based on that research.

I'd be OK with CCP giving the items to an in-game group (these items could also be bid on individually and likely distributed across multiple groups) because those groups would have been innovative/philanthropic/whatever enough for CCP to have chosen them to be able to bid on items. I don't love the Goons more than any other organization, but depending on their proposed method of item distribution I'd be more likely to deal with them to try to get those items - I'd like them more if they funded tournaments and projects for out-of-corp individuals the way SOMER does, using earned in-game ISK to do so. I also think CCP has a fairly good track record of choosing their partners, which makes me think future promotional partners *edit* would be carefully vetted.

You all aren't happy with this situation, about how the prizes were handed out (though it really isn't anything new) - CCP knows this, may change things in the future as a result or may not. Moving forward how can we motivate more corps to provide prizes for live tournaments, while simultaneously continuing the introduction of unique and interesting ships/items to the game that the vast majority has the opportunity to obtain? At the end of the day, that's what I want as a player.
Lulu McMullin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#585 - 2013-09-28 20:39:04 UTC
Memnon Shepard wrote:

You all aren't happy with this situation, about how the prizes were handed out


The problem isn't that prizes are handed out. It's that in-game items are spawned and given to an in-game player driven entity.


Rob Crowley
State War Academy
#586 - 2013-09-28 20:40:29 UTC
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Moving forward how can we motivate more corps to provide prizes for live tournaments
I'm not so sure more motivation for this is required. I'd assume it pays off for Somer and anyone else who's space rich and wants to do some marketing could do the same. I don't think CCP support as an incentive is needed here.

And on a smaller scale this kind of stuff is already happening all over the place, I know loads of people who sponsor stuff to enable small scale fun activities for others, like e.g. tournaments in my noob corp.

Quote:
while simultaneously continuing the introduction of unique and interesting ships/items to the game that the vast majority has the opportunity to obtain?
By having CCP give out those ships/items in tournaments or events or whatever so that not just a vast majority but actually every player has the opportunity to take part and there's no distortion of sandbox competition.
Memnon Shepard
The Occupation.
#587 - 2013-09-28 21:27:58 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
Memnon Shepard wrote:
Moving forward how can we motivate more corps to provide prizes for live tournaments
I'm not so sure more motivation for this is required. I'd assume it pays off for Somer and anyone else who's space rich and wants to do some marketing could do the same. I don't think CCP support as an incentive is needed here.

And on a smaller scale this kind of stuff is already happening all over the place, I know loads of people who sponsor stuff to enable small scale fun activities for others, like e.g. tournaments in my noob corp.

Quote:
while simultaneously continuing the introduction of unique and interesting ships/items to the game that the vast majority has the opportunity to obtain?
By having CCP give out those ships/items in tournaments or events or whatever so that not just a vast majority but actually every player has the opportunity to take part and there's no distortion of sandbox competition.


For tournaments in your noob corp, how I can go about signing some of my guys up - it sounds interesting. I suppose I should have noted, 'keeping the idea of growing community initiatives' would be the purpose behind the creation of the items (which is my understanding of why these particular items were introduced and distributed the way they were in the first place). There is already a medium for introducing ships to the community in place, thorough various CCP tournaments. I'd also argue a brand new player has a greater chance of signing up for SOMER Blink, putting in a few tokens and hoping than trying to win the Alliance Tournament, but I realize that's not relevant. Direct CCP distribution of items gets the ships into the game, but doesn't drive community initiative to induce large corporations otherwise sitting on ISK-piles to drop that ISK supporting events that everyone in the game can enjoy.

Whether or not these types of support initiatives should exist is the central point of contention, and I think they should. I agree with the main point of the majority of posters that the way that motivation is created needs to be more equitable, but I think it can be done while many others do not. I'm interested to see what CCP does going forward.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#588 - 2013-09-28 21:37:52 UTC
Andski wrote:
You realize we're asking CCP give us all that stuff in jest, right? I guess you have absolutely no grasp of sarcasm.

This isn't jealousy, it's denouncing CCP's blatant favoritism.

You too?

Christ, HTFU.

Wish Hilmer would come into this thread and tell everyone to F.O.

screw this bunch of whiney bitches.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Kosakei Sanko
Interstellar Vacancy
Loose Affiliations
#589 - 2013-09-28 21:54:01 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
You realize we're asking CCP give us all that stuff in jest, right? I guess you have absolutely no grasp of sarcasm.

This isn't jealousy, it's denouncing CCP's blatant favoritism.

You too?

Christ, HTFU.

Wish Hilmer would come into this thread and tell everyone to F.O.

screw this bunch of whiney bitches.


Finally someone adds something substantive to the argument!

Gimme a unique T2 Khanid battleship called the Castigator and I'd be willing to forget all this happened.
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#590 - 2013-09-28 21:58:55 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Andski wrote:
You realize we're asking CCP give us all that stuff in jest, right? I guess you have absolutely no grasp of sarcasm.

This isn't jealousy, it's denouncing CCP's blatant favoritism.

You too?

Christ, HTFU.

Wish Hilmer would come into this thread and tell everyone to F.O.

screw this bunch of whiney bitches.


See, I love this post. I love how unapologetic it is about itself. It's like saying, "I don't understand anything about this but I'm sure going to express an opinion about it and you're not going to stop me!" We need more posting like this.
RUS Comannder
Writing Memoirs
#591 - 2013-09-28 22:11:32 UTC
Rob Crowley wrote:
[quote=
Quote:
why didn't you give it to us... waaah.....
You're not very good at reading, are you? I guess it might be an issue of language barrier. No-one seriously asked to get it instead.

My opinion or yours for that matter, of how well I can read, comprehend and retain is irrelevant and I have no language barrier restrictions in reading any of the posts, but then you may have been have been guessing about your own limitations as your statement is innuendo.

"No one seriously asked" is a subjective deduction on the part of the reader and we have many readers here who may arrive at many deductions, therefore I find your conclusion of ruling out anyone taking a comment serious as specious and assumptive until all readers are interviewed. Of course, I'm making the assumption that in the time between I made my post and you responded to it, that you did not interview each reader.

Because CCP limits a single post to five quotes, I condensed down your post about how this is not about Somer Blink and I agree, it should not be about blink. Unfortunately, many have taken the opportunity to cast dispersons on Blink which are not new and have all been shown to lack validity. Some of the comments only serve to demonstrate the poster's failure to obtain readily available information contained in the rules posted on the Blink site.

I went back through only the first three pages of this thread and mined over 20 posts making reference to being more deserving. I have not used the conventional quote because of the limitation of five and the word count limitation:

[quote=Weaselior]How, exactly, do I get trillions of isk worth of things to make a private in-game profit on for goonfleet.com, a much more significant site than this?


I would like to run a promotion, you can send me one (1) coupon good for an all expenses paid trip to fanfest, I promise my winning of my own lottery will be entirely fair and well accounted for

Where's my Black Frog Special Edition Rhea (best stats of all 4 races, black skin with red lights) for founding Black Frog, one of the top 5 services in EVE? Will Red Frog be getting a pile of goodies for all their services? I'm willing to bet the hit count on the Red Frog site is higher than most blogs. We all want our free stuff.

quote Lugia3 quote CCP Navigator These entities (and others of course) have demonstrated a solid history of trust and reliability.

quote
So did EvE Bank.quote ( I guess Navigator included evebank in the "others of course")

quote Antoine Jordan Looking forward to the unique in-game assets that will be provided for the upcoming giveaway on goonfleet.com! Can't wait to see what I can win. Remember, anyone can join the giveaway, you just have to join the CFC quote


Many commenting on blink not being a legitimatedley run site, even though this issue is not about Blink it does not mean the incorrect statements about Blink should be continually repeated with a corrective response. That is how false info seems to become accepted as fact.

None of the posts made any reference to the very large sums of ISK and material support Blink has provided to the community by sponsoring events and tournaments. Blink does generate a great amount of ISK. They must in order to play more than two dozen Promos per day which only cost players one token to enter and tokens are gathered by simply playing the game. The promos are a different way for Blink to reward those who actually play on the site. Tokens are collected by depositing ISK in a player's blink wallet & by playing and by winning. They are not for sale and cannot be transferred between players. The promos have includeded capital ships all the way down to frigs and during celebrations, they are more frequent and more lucative. I witnessed a chain of promos a few days ago which went through all the strat cruisers and startede with one tengu, then x2 tengus then promos increasing in number until 10 tenguse and then repeated that process for the other three strat cruisers. Each player had one just chance to win by posting one free token which came into the players possession by simply playing the game. Those prizes are available to anyone who plays eve and has not been caught cheating on the blink site before.

I found many quotes which referred to Blink as a scam, able to give prizes out as they see fit and and one quoting a questionalble blog and then wondering if CCP had any way to know if Blink were legit. I guess the blog which posted anecdotal items and CCP having a record of every transaction and contract is point overlooked.

Personally, I believe Blink will pour any ISK back into the community. For the sake of a transaction such as this, I would still like to see an agreement of how that will be done. CCP has definitively stepped on it here with the appearance of allowing a site to make a lot of ISK with the appearance to the uninformed that Somer could just disappear with it Even though Somer will never have the prizes in her control, she will have the isk from ticket sales. I think for the future construct of such a promotion, it would have been better for CCP to have an outline of how the prizes will be controlled for the general player base to see and understand and an agreement of how the recipient of the promotion related income will use it to support the community followed up by CCPs supervision of the plan. We certainly do not need an event like this promoted by a SOV holding alliance or a RvB alliance using the ISK to further expand their dominance over any part of the player base. The funds generated by a CCP endowment to a thrid party need to ALL go to the betterment of the entire player base.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#592 - 2013-09-28 22:50:39 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
You too?

Christ, HTFU.

Wish Hilmer would come into this thread and tell everyone to F.O.

screw this bunch of whiney bitches.


Somehow I think you're confusing "harden the **** up" with "agree with everything CCP does because they are an infallible entity that does no wrong"

If people did what you apparently think is "HTFU" in the summer of 2011 we'd have gold ammo and gold ships by now.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#593 - 2013-09-28 23:06:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuri Kinnes
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
See, I love this post. I love how unapologetic it is about itself. It's like saying, "I don't understand anything about this but I'm sure going to express an opinion about it and you're not going to stop me!" We need more posting like this.

Goons are starting to take this game *way* too frikken seriously.

What is this?

Band of Brothers: The Goon Years?

Get over yourself.
Andski wrote:
Somehow I think you're confusing "harden the **** up" with "agree with everything CCP does because they are an infallible entity that does no wrong"

If people did what you apparently think is "HTFU" in the summer of 2011 we'd have gold ammo and gold ships by now.

Yeah, it's exactly the same thing.

Go hug T20.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#594 - 2013-09-28 23:13:31 UTC
You know, all that stops us from being the new BoB is having CCP gift us T2 BPOs.

I'm sure you'd vigorously defend CCP if they did such a thing.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#595 - 2013-09-29 01:19:11 UTC
Andski wrote:
You know, all that stops us from being the new BoB is having CCP gift us T2 BPOs.

I'm sure you'd vigorously defend CCP if they did such a thing.

This isn't eve 2007, Goons *are* the new Band of Brothers (you guys still have the alliance name stashed away, don't you?) and you don't need t2 bpos.

Yeah, no. *Nothing* is stopping you (not even yourselves) from being the new Band of Brothers: The Goon Years, because you are taking it that serious.

Way to go guys.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#596 - 2013-09-29 01:34:15 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
This isn't eve 2007, Goons *are* the new Band of Brothers (you guys still have the alliance name stashed away, don't you?) and you don't need t2 bpos.


Neither did they.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#597 - 2013-09-29 02:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zaxix
edit: just caught up on the situation with Jester's Trek.

Bokononist

 
Johnny Marzetti
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#598 - 2013-09-29 06:14:14 UTC
Man I wish I could just type things and feel really smug about them regardless of whether they actually made any sense or not.
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#599 - 2013-09-29 07:10:49 UTC
Johnny Marzetti wrote:
Man I wish I could just type things and feel really smug about them regardless of whether they actually made any sense or not.

You seem to be on top of that particular skill set. Carry on.

Bokononist

 
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#600 - 2013-09-29 14:43:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
................