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Question for CCP - Is this RMT officially allowed?

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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2013-09-27 16:27:53 UTC
/facepalm
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#22 - 2013-09-27 16:28:05 UTC
Xaen wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them.


You used the word equivalence. I don't think that word means what you think it means. If they are the equivalent of ISK, then you cannot be forced to gamble with them.

e·quiv·a·lence

iˈkwivələns/

noun

1. the condition of being equal or equivalent in value, worth, function, etc.
Being forced to gamble with it does not change it's value. You can go to an online casino and get real money in casino credit. It's the same value as real money you have placed into the system, but you are forced to gamble with it a certain amount before you can withdraw it.
And if you read above, 80% of it WILL be paid out to players. So Somer are receiving cash and players are receiving isk or items.

Also your definition contains the word equivalent which is the word I used, thus not defining the word. So:

e·quiv·a·lent
/iˈkwivələnt/
Adjective
Equal in value, amount, function, etc: "a unit equivalent to one glass".
Noun
A person or thing that is equal to or corresponds with another in value, amount, function, meaning, etc.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#23 - 2013-09-27 17:22:30 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
/facepalm


Not empty quoting.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Eggs Ackley
#24 - 2013-09-27 17:24:04 UTC
Another Space Lawyer fail thread. Grasping at straws.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#25 - 2013-09-27 17:40:34 UTC
Eggs Ackley wrote:
Another Space Lawyer fail thread. Grasping at straws.
Or asking simple questions...
And space lawyer or not, they get money by offering isk. If that's allowed I want it officially stated, so we can all benefit.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kalishka Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2013-09-27 18:18:52 UTC
Eggs Ackley wrote:
Another Space Lawyer fail thread. Grasping at straws.


Hey, I for one am glad they exist. I'm meeting mine at Space Court for not paying my Space Taxes P

Betty White knows it
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-09-27 19:02:47 UTC
It seems to me that Somer Blink is indeed doing RMT. I very much doubt, however, that CCP will agree. They've just had to defend their involvement with Blink at length in response to the criticisms levelled at their original proposal to reintroduce the Golden Magnate. To now turn around and admit that in fact they're supporting an RMT scheme in violation of their own EULA would entail an inacceptable loss of face. Their only options are either to dispute the analysis, or to remain silent. I rather expect they'll go for the latter.

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#28 - 2013-09-27 19:06:53 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
It seems to me that Somer Blink is indeed doing RMT. I very much doubt, however, that CCP will agree. They've just had to defend their involvement with Blink at length in response to the criticisms levelled at their original proposal to reintroduce the Golden Magnate. To now turn around and admit that in fact they're supporting an RMT scheme in violation of their own EULA would entail an inacceptable loss of face. Their only options are either to dispute the analysis, or to remain silent. I rather expect they'll go for the latter.

You're probably right.

Too bad test's gevlon goblin didn't think to start a lottery scheme, they could have used a few trillions or whatever to afford more 6vdts

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#29 - 2013-09-27 19:09:50 UTC
Morihei Akachi wrote:
It seems to me that Somer Blink is indeed doing RMT. I very much doubt, however, that CCP will agree. They've just had to defend their involvement with Blink at length in response to the criticisms levelled at their original proposal to reintroduce the Golden Magnate. To now turn around and admit that in fact they're supporting an RMT scheme in violation of their own EULA would entail an inacceptable loss of face. Their only options are either to dispute the analysis, or to remain silent. I rather expect they'll go for the latter.



They have not had to defend their involvement with Blink at length, they have had to say why they chose Blink first, because they said the same thing could be open to other sites if player response was favourable.

Fluffy Bunny Pic!

Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-09-27 19:49:29 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them.

This is where your entire argument falls apart. That's like saying Monopoly Money is the equivalent of USD, you are just forced to play Monopoly to use it. The "worth" of blink credits is essentially zero.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2013-09-27 20:09:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Monopoly money is equivalent to cash if at some point cash is used to procure monopoly money to play the game. And the prizes can be converted to ISK which can be converted to plex which takes real life cash to create.

Can one sell plex cheap to markee dragon?

The better question is "does Somer Blink pay taxes on the money they receive, be it directly or through referrals?"Lol

If the answer is yes, it's RMT, if no, uh-oh.
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-09-27 20:24:12 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.


1. Visit Somerblink
2. Click on Referral Link to Markee Dragon (Usedto be Shattered Crystal)
3. Purchase Isk
4. 250mil isk is automatically transferred to your blink account
5. Somerblink receive a payment for you purchasing isk from Markee Dragon

This could be RMT could be debated however I would say yes as isk is being used to generate real life money.

In another thread I did accuse Lucas of saying CCP endorses RMT as he accused Somerblink of RMT.

I disagreed with him for the reasons he gave and I still do in that regards.

However he has throw somewhat of a curve ball here as I do believe this is can be a class of RMT.

Wait. What? That cant be legal.

Can you clarify for those who never used their website or bought plexes via other vendors than ccp.
What you mean by #3 - Puchase isk?

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-09-27 20:28:34 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them.

This is where your entire argument falls apart. That's like saying Monopoly Money is the equivalent of USD, you are just forced to play Monopoly to use it. The "worth" of blink credits is essentially zero.

Monopoly money is real money if you can play with them and win real prizes like real estate.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#34 - 2013-09-27 20:38:03 UTC
Swidgen wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Blink credits are the equivalent of isk, you are just forced to gamble with them.

This is where your entire argument falls apart. That's like saying Monopoly Money is the equivalent of USD, you are just forced to play Monopoly to use it. The "worth" of blink credits is essentially zero.
Erm, wrong. Read my posts fully.
When they receive their cut, they give out the credits. 80% of those credits gets transferred to players as isk. The only part that's luck of the draw is which player gets it, though you could buy all tickets for a blink, guaranteeing you get the 80%.

Whichever way you cut it though, Somer gets real cash and gives out in game isk. Saying it's credits is beside the point. If it wasn't all RMT could be legalised by simply saying you buy a websites "credits" then redeem those credits for in game items.

Red Templar wrote:
Wait. What? That cant be legal.

Can you clarify for those who never used their website or bought plexes via other vendors than ccp.
What you mean by #3 - Puchase isk?
i think he meant "Purchase a GTC"
It's:
1. Visit Somerblink
2. Click on Referral Link
3. Purchase GTC (Redeemable in game for 2xPLEX)
4. 250mil isk is automatically transferred to your blink account
5. Somerblink receives a payment for you purchasing GTC

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-09-27 20:39:05 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Red Templar wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.


1. Visit Somerblink
2. Click on Referral Link to Markee Dragon (Usedto be Shattered Crystal)
3. Purchase Isk
4. 250mil isk is automatically transferred to your blink account
5. Somerblink receive a payment for you purchasing isk from Markee Dragon

This could be RMT could be debated however I would say yes as isk is being used to generate real life money.

In another thread I did accuse Lucas of saying CCP endorses RMT as he accused Somerblink of RMT.

I disagreed with him for the reasons he gave and I still do in that regards.

However he has throw somewhat of a curve ball here as I do believe this is can be a class of RMT.

Wait. What? That cant be legal.

Can you clarify for those who never used their website or bought plexes via other vendors than ccp.
What you mean by #3 - Puchase isk?

Change #3 to purchase GTC. Which is probably why this is "okay."

a) GTC purchased. CCP and Markee Dragon make $$$.
b) You receive GTC and blink credit.
c) On a large sample size, some of that blink credit will be converted to isk.
d) Somerblink receives $$$ from Markee dragon.

So, you give $$$ to Markee Dragon. You will, on a large sample size, get some isk from Somer Blink through wins from blink credit. Somer gets $$$.

Don't think this counts as RMT per se, but maybe someone else can explain it better.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-09-27 20:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
I wonder if Somer Blink is involved with Markee Dragon outside of game?

You know employees, partners or contracters? Seems legit.

Put another way if the Markee Dragon owner were to to do exactly what Somer does would it affect the argument?
Prince Kobol
#37 - 2013-09-27 20:52:09 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Red Templar wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
They don't give you ISK, they give you Blink Credit. You can't spend Blink Credit in-game. Stop being silly.


1. Visit Somerblink
2. Click on Referral Link to Markee Dragon (Usedto be Shattered Crystal)
3. Purchase Isk
4. 250mil isk is automatically transferred to your blink account
5. Somerblink receive a payment for you purchasing isk from Markee Dragon

This could be RMT could be debated however I would say yes as isk is being used to generate real life money.

In another thread I did accuse Lucas of saying CCP endorses RMT as he accused Somerblink of RMT.

I disagreed with him for the reasons he gave and I still do in that regards.

However he has throw somewhat of a curve ball here as I do believe this is can be a class of RMT.

Wait. What? That cant be legal.

Can you clarify for those who never used their website or bought plexes via other vendors than ccp.
What you mean by #3 - Puchase isk?

Change #3 to purchase GTC. Which is probably why this is "okay."

a) GTC purchased. CCP and Markee Dragon make $$$.
b) You receive GTC and blink credit.
c) On a large sample size, some of that blink credit will be converted to isk.
d) Somerblink receives $$$ from Markee dragon.

So, you give $$$ to Markee Dragon. You will, on a large sample size, get some isk from Somer Blink through wins from blink credit. Somer gets $$$.

Don't think this counts as RMT per se, but maybe someone else can explain it better.


Its a pretty grey area.

The issue is that somerblink are using isk as an incentive for people to use their referral scheme which in turns earns them RL money.. its mine own opinion that it is a form of RMT however as it has been said before.. its a pretty grey area.
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-09-27 20:54:31 UTC
Nah, it's not really grey unless directly confronting a clearly red issue with skepticism makes you colorblind.
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2013-09-27 21:22:42 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Change #3 to purchase GTC. Which is probably why this is "okay."

a) GTC purchased. CCP and Markee Dragon make $$$.
b) You receive GTC and blink credit.
c) On a large sample size, some of that blink credit will be converted to isk.
d) Somerblink receives $$$ from Markee dragon.

So, you give $$$ to Markee Dragon. You will, on a large sample size, get some isk from Somer Blink through wins from blink credit. Somer gets $$$.

Don't think this counts as RMT per se, but maybe someone else can explain it better.

Does this work only if GTC are involved? What if i have other partners, refferals, online shops, whatever that sell in other stuff as well.

Just as example:

1. I create a site where people can play for credits that they get from converting isk. Online isk casino.
2. I give out credits if they buy something from referral site. Like postcards or t-shirts. Buy 10$ postcard, get 10 credits, that each give you a chance to win 100kk isk.
3. Get a cut from $ spent on merchandise. ( that referral shop can as well be yours and sell total ****, but with credit rewards)
4. ????
5. Profit.

As i understand, it would be against the rules with any other service or merchandise other than GTC?


[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2013-09-28 00:35:11 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Tippia wrote:
It's not RMT.
It's RM-for-non-game-non-ISK-tickets-to-be-part-of-a-draw-for-non-guaranteed-rewards.

No in-game items are exchanged for out-of-game services or goods.

That's like saying it's not really RMT if I launder it since the plex might not drop when I suicide gank my alt carrying PLEX in a frigate.

You kind of shoot yourself in the foot by what you said, since blink definitely exchanges in-game items (PLEX/ships/skillbooks/modules/implants) for an out-of-game service (playing their game and winning).

Except it's even worse in this scenario because, while there's a chance of you not getting any of that blink credit as isk, there's also a pretty good chance that if you play smartly you could get way more than that back.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)