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High-Sec POCOs: Bringing Null to High-Sec?
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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-09-27 13:56:28 UTC
Gorgoth24 wrote:
I seriously doubt nullbears will have the attention span to consistently defend high-sec POCOs. Especially the less lucrative ones.

Something like this drives high sec interaction, and encourages players to either communicate with POCO owners for better prices, explore in search of a new POCO, or band together to take your own POCO.

At the very least, launch your **** into space and avoid POCOs altogether. All these concerns were addressed before by the CCP devs, CSM, and playerbase.

>highsec
>band together

Just like they did against Goonswarm tyranny and to install multiple delegates on the CSM?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#62 - 2013-09-27 13:57:54 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:

you do realize that Half the high sec dwellers are indeed Nullbear alts right?
So yes they have the manpower.
And don't forget some low sec pirates alliances/corp too


Lets see this Dweller defend his High and Null interests fully at exactly the same time. I think not.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#63 - 2013-09-27 13:57:57 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
I find the idea that nullsec cartels could hold all the customs-offices in high sec frankly laughable. Although it does mean that smaller entities will have to pay a fortune to war dec them.


it's not about holding all of them it's about holding the ones closest to the market hubs

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#64 - 2013-09-27 13:59:40 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


The cartels wiped out high sec ice mining.

And by December anyone who makes P4 materials in high sec will be paying a tax to the cartels, which means we ALL are paying another tax to the cartels (to go along with the tax on all T2 products).



Since the Ice Changes, my income is 5 Bill/month from Fuel Blocks. You have no idea what you are talking about.

There is always Low Sec for PI if you want to avoid your Tinfoil Cartels. It's really not that hard to do.


Sometimes I think people just make this stuff up. And they indeed do.


Right, and since the Incursion nerf, my Incursion income doubled to 1 trillion / month.
And when Marauders are nerfed hard, I expect it to double again.

See, I can make up absolutely meaningless numbers too.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-09-27 14:01:06 UTC
"what do you mean safe space has drawbacks"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#66 - 2013-09-27 14:18:33 UTC
Andski wrote:
"what do you mean safe space has drawbacks"


Wow, I've been needing a Translator like you, my high-secese is horrible. You're jhired! 0.01 isk sent!.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#67 - 2013-09-27 14:22:25 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Right, and since the Incursion nerf, my Incursion income doubled to 1 trillion / month.
And when Marauders are nerfed hard, I expect it to double again.

See, I can make up absolutely meaningless numbers too.


Nope. You are just a sad, bored Troll.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#68 - 2013-09-27 14:44:56 UTC
Caliph Muhammed wrote:
Hisec PI is lucrative?


No, not for the PI guy, but owning a poCo in HiSec and reaping taxes from volume of people who don't have access to other planets... maybe

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Lilliana Stelles
#69 - 2013-09-27 15:28:51 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Lilliana Stelles wrote:
Obviously we just need a beneficial conglomerate to set all the pocos at 0%.

Pff, who am I kidding.

Death and taxes.

James 315 sells permits for owning a high-sec POCO? Apply now and beat the rush!


I'm sorry, but we've had to raise taxes on our "free pocos" in order to prevent AFK miners from installing their "oppressive pocos". By buying a poco permit you support the ability for us to add more "free pocos" to the universe and destroy the "oppressive pocos". For the salvation of highsec.

Not a forum alt. 
Mhax Arthie
Doomheim
#70 - 2013-09-27 15:43:49 UTC
... there is one more thing that was not covered so far. Hi sec poco's were one of the major isk sink in the game. So... is there any other isk sink planned or we can expect another inflation wave coming?
Korrimal Ohmiras
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-09-27 15:47:11 UTC
Gorgoth24 wrote:
At the very least, launch your **** into space and avoid POCOs altogether. All these concerns were addressed before by the CCP devs, CSM, and playerbase.


At 500m3 per launch - ya - there is a robust idea.

Unless I'm missing something on the launch mechanics you can only launch into space from the command center and the command center only holds 500m3 of goods. On top of that not everyone has their command centers at a reasonable distance to their PI colony. Adding a link to 5-6 planets that are already near maxed out is essentially going to mean having to take stuff offline.

If there is a different way to launch more than 500m3 of PI into space then I'm all ears but so far nothing I've seen seems to suggest that its possible to do that. I've never used the option as the last thing I want to be doing is running back every 2 days to pick up 12-24 500m3 cans floating around a planet god-knows where.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-09-27 15:59:44 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
That's fine by me to have POCO's in High Sec, as I work my PI exclusively in Low Sec anyway.

Tbh, most Low Sec POCO owners don't really make that much ISK from taxes, and those that set them high just get used by fewer players. It's just not that lucrative at all.

And with the PI product output from High Sec planets being about only half, repeat half, that of Low Sec, it is especially not lucrative at all. Literally pocket change ISK-wise.

This is not a fortune making proposition for anybody at all to do this in high sec, and it will absolutely not be a profit temptation for already established Null Corps at all.

It's just something to do. Even the best High Sec planets are not worth enough to lure this business out of Low and Null. At all.

But have fun with it anyway. I'll watch to see what happens.



This is my experience too from doing low sec and npc null PI. The only ones that get blown up are because of inter group rivalry or someone was greedy with taxes on a high value planet. The only change high sec PI people are likely to see is lower taxes and the need to check that the planet has a CO before they set up shop. The payback on most CO is so long it just isn't worth it.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-09-27 16:33:23 UTC
Korrimal Ohmiras wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
At the very least, launch your **** into space and avoid POCOs altogether. All these concerns were addressed before by the CCP devs, CSM, and playerbase.


At 500m3 per launch - ya - there is a robust idea.

Unless I'm missing something on the launch mechanics you can only launch into space from the command center and the command center only holds 500m3 of goods. On top of that not everyone has their command centers at a reasonable distance to their PI colony. Adding a link to 5-6 planets that are already near maxed out is essentially going to mean having to take stuff offline.

If there is a different way to launch more than 500m3 of PI into space then I'm all ears but so far nothing I've seen seems to suggest that its possible to do that. I've never used the option as the last thing I want to be doing is running back every 2 days to pick up 12-24 500m3 cans floating around a planet god-knows where.


The point is that you have a choice. You can pay The Mittani's tax or you can launch your stuff 500m3 at a time.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#74 - 2013-09-27 16:57:42 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
The payback on most CO is so long it just isn't worth it.


And doubly long to achieve in High versus Low.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Adunh Slavy
#75 - 2013-09-27 17:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
I think it's great, having players be able to own resources in high sec. This game revolves around the poles of cooperation and competition. Those are induced by scarcity.

The fear that "Null will take over" is a bit over blown. I'm sure some null groups will want to run around and have poco-geddon. Setting up massive tax farms is something else however. There are just too many planets to maintain any sort of cartel. Certainly systems around the trade hubs will be prime targets for control, but beyond that, it'll prove rather a fruitless endeavor with regards to monopoly.

The other side of the coin is, this could create a resource struggle that is more palatable to high sec dwellers. It may induce some of them into more cooperation with one another. Right now they've very little reason to cooperate, since none of them have much to defend. Now they do, and with out the "risks" of low sec and null.

Hopefully CCP is wise enough to suspect flag anyone who shoots at player owned POCO, even if the shooter has war-deced the POCO owning corp. This will allow loose affiliations of players to not only attack, but also defend these structures. and more fun will be had by all.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#76 - 2013-09-27 17:37:53 UTC
Altrue wrote:

WITHOUT capital ships this time.


Marauders in bastion mode.

CCP does some stupid crap sometimes, but more often than not, they get it right.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Jaxon Grylls
Institute of Archaeology
#77 - 2013-09-27 18:14:53 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Well if they raise the taxes you can just raise the price on goods..



That somewhat misses the point. Why should my efforts go to subsidise one of the big cartels? What's in it for me?

All I can see if an opportunity to make the rich even richer.

I'm in what you might call a micro-corp with no alliance tie ups. Why? 'cos I like be my own boss and do things the way I like. After all I pay my subscription and it's MY game that I'm playing not the Goons' or any other null-sec alliance's. I admit that I play EVE poorly and am very poor, but that's my choice. If I had wanted to get rich for not much effort I would have joined one of the big cartels. Not that they would have accepted my application I fear. I'm just not cut out to be a small cog in a large machine in EVE, I've had enough of that in RL.

I can see no benefit to me through having someone own the POCO in the system I do my PI except maybe the satisfaction of knowing that I am helping to pay for someone else's subscription.

We'll see, but if it turns out as I fear it might I will have to consider leaving EVE, again. Bah! Evil
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#78 - 2013-09-27 18:16:48 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
This will allow loose affiliations of players to not only attack, but also defend these structures. and more fun will be had by all.

Wow, I mean, I didn't know ...

structures are THE BEST

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#79 - 2013-09-27 18:17:30 UTC
Andski wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
I seriously doubt nullbears will have the attention span to consistently defend high-sec POCOs. Especially the less lucrative ones.

Something like this drives high sec interaction, and encourages players to either communicate with POCO owners for better prices, explore in search of a new POCO, or band together to take your own POCO.

At the very least, launch your **** into space and avoid POCOs altogether. All these concerns were addressed before by the CCP devs, CSM, and playerbase.

>highsec
>band together

Just like they did against Goonswarm tyranny and to install multiple delegates on the CSM?

Who was that miner csm person who was being literally attacked or something

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#80 - 2013-09-27 18:18:26 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Korrimal Ohmiras wrote:
Gorgoth24 wrote:
At the very least, launch your **** into space and avoid POCOs altogether. All these concerns were addressed before by the CCP devs, CSM, and playerbase.

At 500m3 per launch - ya - there is a robust idea.

Unless I'm missing something on the launch mechanics you can only launch into space from the command center and the command center only holds 500m3 of goods. On top of that not everyone has their command centers at a reasonable distance to their PI colony. Adding a link to 5-6 planets that are already near maxed out is essentially going to mean having to take stuff offline.

If there is a different way to launch more than 500m3 of PI into space then I'm all ears but so far nothing I've seen seems to suggest that its possible to do that. I've never used the option as the last thing I want to be doing is running back every 2 days to pick up 12-24 500m3 cans floating around a planet god-knows where.

The point is that you have a choice. You can pay The Mittani's tax or you can launch your stuff 500m3 at a time.

CCP needs to make it easier for them to bypass the "intended" mechanics for planetary interaction because adding ~players~, now that's just too much

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?