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With the exception of the Talos the Tier 3 BC skins still look incomplete, lacking some details like windows/lights.

Edit:

I am not happy that the Caldari get an optimal + damage bonus for hybrids. One of these two has to go before the ship is released. Either that or make them Torpedo boats like other suggested.

Yes, because all the 1337 pvpers will be using rails now.

5% bonus to Large Projectile Turret damage
10% bonus to Large Projectile Turret optimal falloff
^It must fixed thus to unsuck the Naga

Tornado with ACs make better dps than Naga torps for pve anyway... same as for pvp. You can remove Naga from the game now, there's no loss, to anyone.

This, don't hate missiles CCP, TBH, what will it hurt! No1 will care as the pilots from the other races say the Naga sucks either way!

What the hell are you talking about?

Missiles are not necessary and are not the exclusive weapon choice for Caldari. Nowhere did I say you MUST train both to be effective. I stated that all races have 2 weapons systems and if you want to take advantage of all the ships of that race you need to train both.

If you have no missile skills, it's pointless to fly a Malediction or Sac. If you don't have drone skills why fly an Ishtar? Will you complain to CCP that since you don't have those skills that they should open up that ship with slots to suit everyone? No.

There is a Caldari split BC (ferox), missile BC (drake) and now a hybrid BC (Naga)

Look at it from this perspective

lolBantam, Kessie, Merlin
lolOsprey, Caracal, Moa
Cerberus, Eagle
Scorp (EW but still missile/hybrid dual weapon ship) Raven, Rokh
lolFerox, Drake, Naga


If this ship were just a missile boat with no hybrid slots or bonuses, you wouldn't be crying about it.


And now you have people wanting cruise missile and torpedo bonuses... "hey CCP give me a ship with bonuses on ALL THE THINGS!!"



All the people wanting a torp naga have very likely not flown or used one on Sisi yet. THEY SUCK because of the torp's range. When you come in that close to hit, you end up falling under the guns and you DIE.



EDIT:

I'm going to spell it out barney style for you.

If you make it a full torpedo boat and strip the hybrids off and give it two torp bonuses is that any more justified? Or only because YOU have missile skills and no hybrid skills trained?

If you return it to a split ship, with 1 bonus each, will you continue to claim that it sucks as earlier in this thread?

If you throw on cruise, you can now hit not only BS and BCs, but cruisers as well and even frigs and destroyers... at range. Throw on rigor rigs and you have a new fotm ship.

Torps on stealth bombers do well because you have 3 torpedo bonuses- damage, exp velocity, and travel velocity.

On the Naga, pick one... You'll still never fly it.

It has to be either all or none because of the applied bonuses.

You still won't hit for full damage- you need that bonus otherwise the DPS will be sub par.

that means yuo'd have to give it 3 bonusus and unless you pulled hybrids that would be a boat with 5 bonuses. From there other races will want the same treatment and you end up with a be-all and end-all ship class.

Turning the Naga into a hybrid platform was a very good decision, one that I fully support. The bonuses seem fine. The only thing, as with the rest of tier3 bcs, that may need some attention, is careful tuning of powergrid and cpu to ensure that several viable fitting are possible.

However, as some other suggested, adding some missile launcher hardpoints may be a good idea, to offset the complete specialization, allowing it to sport some missile fire. Essentially, keep the hybrid bonuses as they are, but add the possibility of launcher hardpoints on the hull for those wanting to make a mix with torps as support.

• Tier3s may need careful Powergrid/CPU tuning to ensure a wide range of viable fittings for different situations is viable (and that they can actually fit T2 weapons)
• The Naga changes were very good and the ship is now usable, and feels excellent as a hybrid platform.
• It is a good idea to let the Naga have a few missile launcher hardpoints as a support weapons system, but without bonuses to avoid the mess, so it can have some flavor and satisfy - at least partly - missile users.

Something you did not understand, obviously, as your answer has nothing to do with my post. I will explain it again.


First, I don't care about Naga, torps or guns it's fail compared to other t3 BCs anyway due to its lack of speed, big sig, bad slot layout (3 lows on a tank/speed/gun ship ? joking right ?), fitting, etc. Don't think I'll ever fly it over a Tornado or Oracle.
And I can fly gunships, I'm not asking for missiles because that's the only weapon I have, but because CCP hiding its head in the sand when it comes to missile flaws is a bad thing for the game.


You said everyone was training both weapon system of its race to be effective and versatile ?
-> It's not true. Any non caldari character with only guns (and small/med drones) as a weapon system can be effective and versatile in every situation.
With Caldari it's not the case. If you only have missile, you're almost useless or at least subpar in most situations (ECM, Drake and Tengu are a different story). And even worse, if you skill missiles AND hybrids, you're still useless or subpar in most situations. And you said missile wasn't necessary? Then you only fly subpar ships in almost any situation (extreme sniping with low alpha and dps is not useful).


And it has nothing to do with carebears. At all.
You just mistake missiles for a carebear weapon system, but they are just a broken one that need fixes from CCP (drones too, tbh). Wanting missiles to be fixed and not forgotten (like CCP is doing with the non-missile Naga) is not a carebear whining.




Few other things :
- What would be the problem with a Cruise Naga, really? DPS would be low, and yeah, it would hit cruisers, but every gunship can do that better except at very close range, BSs or t3 BCs included
- Don't compare Naga to stealth bombers, they are too different ships. Anyway, an explosion RADIUS (and not speed) bonus (-10%/lvl) and a damage (+5%/lvl) OR range (+15%/lvl) bonus and I would definitely use a torp naga (once its base speed, slot layout, etc. are fixed).

No, the reason you think I didn't address you was because you misunderstood my initial post.

I did not say that you NEED to know both systems to be versitile in PvP. I said you NEED to in order to utilize every ship of a specific race.

You need missile skills to fly a sacrelidge effectively. You need drone skills to fly an Arbitrator effectively. You need hybrid skills to fly a Megathron effectively.

You can refuse, you can train only energy turrets... but don't come whining when you can't fit a malediction.




Missiles are broken in PvP not because of the weapons themselves, but because of the inability to do instant damage. flight time is more than enough for logistical support or a fast ship (most these days with exception of caldari) to warp out before taking damage. Torp ravens are a slight exception but only because of very short flight time but they are still very slow and active tanks just suck.

Missile velocity needs to be bumped a LOT (with a modifier for explosion velocity to keep things balanced) to allow at least somewhat instant damage.



Cruise naga would have high DPS with cruise and able to hit smaller ships even up close because there's no issue with tracking. These Tier 3 ships have 2 weaknesses...


1) no tank and vulnerability to alpha.
2) smaller ships can get in underneath the guns

you rule out number 2.

On the second part I am comparing the Naga to the bomber not because they are the same, but how to get effective damage our of a torp boat. You need 3 bonuses. You are requesting a 15% range bonus per level? In flight time or speed?. and from there you want an explosion radius drop of 10%???

Let's see.. first, a Naga pilot with BC V:

Torpedo exp. radius would be 250m
Range increase base caldari navy jugg is 9km so I'm estimating at least 30km but I got too lazy to calculate to level V.

Would you like an "i win" module with that?

That's the problem... nobody is thinking about what they're suggesting.. it's just "oh no I want a new ship to play with too!"

You glossed over any of my points including the fact that there is no dedicated, effective hybrid BC. You and others tell people, "train gallente because I don't want to train hybrids"

You are your own contradiction.

The fact the Naga can out match a Talos with Blasters is a glaring problem lol

...bit worrying that one.

I dont know about you but i find the whole 700DPS at 70km to be pretty good. The whole "naga is useless now" whines are funny because of it.