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Regional unfairness in pricing
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Othran
Route One
#61 - 2013-09-27 14:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
0mez wrote:
The people that are trying to state about VAT are wrong, the last time I checked VAT it wasn't 100%. Also trying to base this in a product market is completely wrong too; physical items are more expensive in countries because of their shipping cost from origin of manufacture, how has that got anything to do with an item that's sent via email ./ electronically for FREE?


We're making the point that spurious claims about how taxes make everything outside the USA automatically more expensive are in fact complete bollox.

To do this you need to produce some figures. It's possible (Apple do it with iTunes in Europe) to pay 6% corporation tax in the EU and not as some sort of deal. Permanently. Taking advantage of every scheme available in the USA you might get down to 12% but you'd need bloody good accountants - base rate in USA is 35%, highest in EU is 33.3% and the UK is 23%.

German companies actually pay less corporation tax than USA companies as of 2012.

So the tax reasons are bollox.

Employee costs have nothing to do with the discussion as they should be amortised across CCP. Were those costs to be allocated on a regional basis then Iceland, USA and UK customers should be paying virtually everything.

Its done because CCP have always done it and always get away with it. Simple as that.

They're not alone in price-gouging but lets not pretend this is new. ITs not.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#62 - 2013-09-27 14:24:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
Herr Esiq wrote:

Your digital purchase is handled through a Luxembourgian company VAT is applied in Luxembourg, stop dragging Germany into this.
Is it? That doesn't seem to be what Amazon.de is saying. Did I read it wrong?


VAT (value-added tax) on goods
In accordance with the laws governing members of the European Union, Amazon.de is obliged to charge VAT (Umsatzsteuer) on all orders delivered to destinations in member countries of the EU.

The VAT rate in Germany is only 7% on books, groceries (beverages and gift baskets excluded) and pet food. Items in our catalogue besides books, groceries and pet food are subject to the regular VAT rate of 19%. These also include, audiobooks, CD-roms, calendars, software items, and more.

The amounts displayed for goods sold by Amazon.de are inclusive of German VAT. However, your final price may differ depending on the actual VAT rate that applies to your order.

Yes that is what YOU are charged and WHY Amazon.de is a bad deal for Europeans. But it is NOT what Amazon pays for VAT and they keep the profit they make from routing through Luxembourg.

The moment CCP makes their PLEX offer open from a different company, we Europeans can import it the same way Amazon cheats the system and avoid most of the VAT. Thats why we are pissed off we cant buy from Amazon US.

If you still dont get it, i give up.
Galaxy Chicken
Galaxy Farm Carebear Repurposing
#63 - 2013-09-27 14:34:49 UTC
Americans pay less for PLEX because our military is responsible for keeping the geopolitical climate stable enough to allow for free PLEX exchange.
Xaen
Telepathic Death Mimes
#64 - 2013-09-27 14:46:52 UTC
Lucretia DeWinter wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Isn't it possible to buy from Amazon US?

Especially as you don't need to care about shipping


Nope. You have to link your EVE account to your Amazon account and your payment card and then it tells you you can't. order this outside the US.
Hey that's a great idea!

Let's connect our everything to our everything else so that the NSA can have even better Total Information Awareness.

(That was sarcasm.)

I get shouty crackers a lot. Deal with it.
0mez
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-09-27 14:50:08 UTC
I wish people would read what I said, I am as much against this as everyone else, I am stating that the tax thing is wrong, not for the idea if you actually bothered to read my post. Yes this whole thing of different prices in different areas for a international game is wrong.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-09-27 14:58:52 UTC
Othran wrote:
[
Welcome to the EU carousel where no multinational company with a clue pays taxes where they should and VAT fraud is rife.

Not that they pay a whole lot in the US, for that matter (or anywhere, really). Taxes are for people on fixed incomes, and for small businesses, not for multinationals.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-09-27 15:11:21 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:

UHY adds that seven of the ten countries with the highest employment costs for low or middle income workers are European.

An average European employer must pay an extra USD 17,860 (23.8% of gross salary) on salaries of USD 75,000 –

American employers have to pay an extra USD 6,182 (8.2%) and Chinese employers have to pay an extra USD 9,263 (12.4%).

Actually, the wages paid are probably more of an issue than extra costs - the US' pay for low income workers is pretty horrible.

However, employee costs are hardly the only thing that counts as a business cost. For example, the overall tax on companies, as a percentage of profit, in the US is surprisingly high (http://www.doingbusiness.org/data/exploretopics/paying-taxes), though the US tends to have a wide range of exemptions and rebates that may lower this (but finding them and doing the paperwork might well cost more than a small business can afford - making them effectively regressive).
Othran
Route One
#68 - 2013-09-27 15:13:24 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Othran wrote:
[
Welcome to the EU carousel where no multinational company with a clue pays taxes where they should and VAT fraud is rife.

Not that they pay a whole lot in the US, for that matter (or anywhere, really). Taxes are for people on fixed incomes, and for small businesses, not for multinationals.


Indeed. State sales taxes in the US are as messed up as VAT is in the EU in terms of online ordering but at least you don't have the company inventing another company to reduce corporation tax (at a federal level anyway).

However if we follow this to the logical conclusion then you'd all be paying 20% VAT to the UK govt for Eve subs as the server is located there. Hard to argue that the place of business for Eve Online is not London and hence VAT @ 20% is due on all transactions. We don't do that though :)

The only "democratic" country in the world which automatically double-taxes* its citizens/companies who reside abroad is the USA, last I looked :)

Hopefully we've convinced everone bar the German guy that taxes are NOT the cause of the price-gouging. Were I to speculate I'd say that they are worried Eve Vegas is going to be quiet so they punt out cheap PLEX.

*if you ever want to bring overseas earnings back to the USA you have to get square with the IRS first.
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#69 - 2013-09-27 16:23:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
Othran wrote:
[Hopefully we've convinced everone bar the German guy that taxes are NOT the cause of the price-gouging. Were I to speculate I'd say that they are worried Eve Vegas is going to be quiet so they punt out cheap PLEX.

I'd guess he is still Googling for some sort of comeback.

But i assumed the EVE Vegas thing was the reason too, but it wrecked the PLEX market for us and we couldnt reap the benefits. Just imagine EU/US/RU dumping cheap PLEX on the market as well, how many more people could go to Vegas? Pirate
Othran
Route One
#70 - 2013-09-30 21:55:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Othran
Slight necro of thread but this link might prove enlightening to some as to EU tax carousel stuff :

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/30/google_uk_pays_tiny_sum_in_corporation_tax/

The salient bit being that on revenues charged to Google "Ireland" google paid 17 million euros corp tax on revenues of 15.5 billion euros, now I know revenue does not equal profit but less than 200 mill profit from 15.5bill revenue begs the obvious question mmm?

Sorry for necro, just found it amusing is all.
Jessi Burns
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-09-30 22:02:09 UTC
Everything is cheaper in the USA compared to the rest of the world. What you really should be complaining about is:

Gas prices
Food Prices
Car Prices