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Is the CSM now a lame duck?

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Xaen
Telepathic Death Mimes
#21 - 2013-09-27 13:50:17 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Anytime the Marketing Department get a "brilliant" idea, they never consult the CSM.
And marketing is the department that should most consult them. :-/

I get shouty crackers a lot. Deal with it.
Igor Nappi
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-09-27 14:05:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Igor Nappi
Amhra Rho wrote:
It's not about how trustworthy S'Blink really is - it's about how trustworthy pilots think they are.

The trustworthiness of Somer Blink is completely irrelevant on this matter. I trust them to make a hefty profit of the free limited edition stuff CCP gives them.

Edit: And on the topic, yeah, why have CSM if they are not included in the planning of stuff like this?

Furthermore, I think that links must be removed from the game.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#23 - 2013-09-27 14:09:11 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
it's about how trustworthy pilots think they are.


If you read the vocal minority rabble on these forums, SOMERblink sacrifices little puppies to Satan, and then reads their entrails for the best way to scam players, making them highly suspect. If you actually pay attention to their website, you'll see that thousands more per day give not one **** about shovelling their isk willingly into SOMER's wallet to have fun gambling, for the good or ill of their personal fortune.

Overall, I don't believe that the majority of players distrust them, and I do believe that most who play will be tripping over themselves to win these ships.


And if you read the statements of certain CCP employees somer is an amalgamation of gandhi, mother terasa and jesus

In reality I imagine it's somewhere between the two. Personally, I don't really go in for the whole gambling organisations within EVE. The fact that CCPs actions mean that players who wish to try and win these ships have no recourse but to deal with one particular other player group and give them isk / visit their personal website and use their services is quite awful.

It would be on par with CCP actions mandating that I be in PL if I want to fly supers. Or that I must be in TEST if I want to experience losing.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#24 - 2013-09-27 14:16:51 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
I needn't meet you in the middle, because there is no controversy

You'll find me to be a hard sell on that theory. I've seen the weekend-long flame wars in Rens over the topic "Is SOMER Blink a scam?" many times, so again, I've got empirical evidence.

It's true that there are those few that swear by SOMER Blink. One guy in this thread, for instance, implies that he relies SOMER Blink for his income like some people use the lottery. But even then, using the service and liking/trusting them are two different things. Is SOMER Blink really the pilot's friend or is it simply their last resort? I don't like gambling - S'Blink or elsewhere - and I don't particularly trust them, but I may roll a few hundred million on a play for fun.

That doesn't mean they aren't controversial - they most definitely are. Could CCP have chosen a non-controversial way of handling this promotion? Sure. A lottery involving all the players equally.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#25 - 2013-09-27 14:21:12 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
It would be on par with CCP actions mandating that I be in PL if I want to fly supers.


No, it wouldn't. Winning things via gambling is not a supported in-game mechanic.

Also, CCP has mandated nothing; if you want one of these bling ships badly enough, then come off your in-game wallet. It can be fairly well guaranteed that at least of of them will see the open market; buy one from a winner, and you'll have your ship, having never sent the first isk to SOMER. It's also a guaranteed purchase, if you have enough to spend. No gambling necessary.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#26 - 2013-09-27 14:26:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
If CCP ran absolutely everything past the CSM before initiating we would be in the same situation of the US Food and Drug Administration in it taking 20 years to get anything approved and released for use.

Get Real.

ed: I guess you'd like a Secondary CSM to monitor the activities between the the Real CSM and CCP to make sure that is working "as intended."

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Xaen
Telepathic Death Mimes
#27 - 2013-09-27 14:29:57 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
It is a categorical error to treat "CCP" as a single unit of homegenous views and procedures.

Most people don't seem to be smart enough to distinguish between the actions of a group
and the actions of a single individual of a group.

"All black people are drug dealers."


I think it's safe to say all marketing people are immoral assholes that need to look to bill hicks for life changing advice.
Life changing in the best way for everyone!

I get shouty crackers a lot. Deal with it.
Maximilian Akora
It's just business.
#28 - 2013-09-27 14:30:32 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
An accidental oversight by CCP, or do they just not take the CSM seriously?


False dichotomy is false.

There are many more explanations, mostly revolving around the CCP staff involved not having their fingers on the pulse when it comes to understanding the value of scarcity, the psychology of collectors, or the need to maintain trust in the issue of unique versus limited-run versus timed limited offers.

Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence.


Or in short; "a basic understanding of EVE itself".
Xaen
Telepathic Death Mimes
#29 - 2013-09-27 14:30:47 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If CCP ran absolutely everything past the CSM before initiating we would be in the same situation of the US Food and Drug Administration in it taking 20 years to get anything approved and released for use.

Get Real.

ed: I guess you'd like a Secondary CSM to monitor the activities between the the Real CSM and CCP to make sure that is working "as intended."
I would be happy if only the marketing department had to run EVERYTHING past them.

Look to Mr. Hicks for more information.

I get shouty crackers a lot. Deal with it.
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#30 - 2013-09-27 14:33:14 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If CCP ran absolutely everything past the CSM before initiating we would be in the same situation of the US Food and drug Administration in it taking 20 years to get anything approved and released for use.

Get Real.

It would take a single one-hour long meeting, max, and this sort of thing is exactly what CSM is for. There's no requirement that all CSM members be in total agreement, but CCP would hear voices from them that they're now hearing the hard way. Even taking what could be considered the most extreme scenario - CCP consults CSM who all say it's a great idea - at least CCP could come back to us in these forums and tell us that our own democratically elected player representatives disagree with us.

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#31 - 2013-09-27 14:36:04 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If CCP ran absolutely everything past the CSM before initiating we would be in the same situation of the US Food and drug Administration in it taking 20 years to get anything approved and released for use.

Get Real.

It would take a single one-hour long meeting, max, and this sort of thing is exactly what CSM is for. There's no requirement that all CSM members be in total agreement, but CCP would hear voices from them that they're now hearing the hard way. Even taking what could be considered the most extreme scenario - CCP consults CSM who all say it's a great idea - at least CCP could come back to us in these forums and tell us that our own democratically elected player representatives disagree with us.



An hour for each issue always facing the Devs ? Do you understand how complex and gigantic the number of issues is they deal with in development ? An hour ?

Get Real.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-09-27 14:36:24 UTC
Clearly you weren't here for Incarna....

CCP: "These Barbie dolls are awesome, everyone should play with them."

CSM: "We don't think this is a good idea..., plus who the hell will pay $60 for a monocle?"

CCP: ******-slap* "We don't fly to you to Iceland to think, we fly you to Iceland to make us look like we give a damn. Bye-bye ship-spinning."
Amhra Rho
Accujac Elimination
#33 - 2013-09-27 14:45:32 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Amhra Rho wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If CCP ran absolutely everything past the CSM before initiating we would be in the same situation of the US Food and drug Administration in it taking 20 years to get anything approved and released for use.

Get Real.

It would take a single one-hour long meeting, max, and this sort of thing is exactly what CSM is for. There's no requirement that all CSM members be in total agreement, but CCP would hear voices from them that they're now hearing the hard way. Even taking what could be considered the most extreme scenario - CCP consults CSM who all say it's a great idea - at least CCP could come back to us in these forums and tell us that our own democratically elected player representatives disagree with us.



An hour for each issue always facing the Devs ? Do you understand how complex and gigantic the number of issues is they deal with in development ? An hour ?

Get Real.

Yes. I do. I have a metric crap ton of experience as a Project Manager in a similar environment - Fortune 5's as a matter of fact - and there is no way I'd be caught dead rolling out something of this magnitude without making for damm sure I've thought of everything first.

Other than it takes one Dev one hour, do you have a compelling reason not to consult CSM?

There's real reasons why your Eve character doesn't do /dance.
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