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AMAZING SOE SHIPS
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Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-09-27 12:18:58 UTC
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-27 13:04:52 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

It might inherit Amarr's distaste for mids and a good armor tank, and come with a 6/3/5 layout. I wouldn't expect this ship to be a PvP beast, but should do well in exploration sites and sub 8/10 DED sites.

But we gotta give that SoE frigate some love too! I think it's the most radical new thing. What do you all think about it? I think it might make a neat solo L1/L2 blitzer in null/lowsec and double as exploration ships. Perfect for wormhole stuff!

I really hope that CCP doesn't go with some stupid cap recharge bonus on laser weapons though. Those would really kill both of these ships.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-09-27 13:18:52 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

It might inherit Amarr's distaste for mids and a good armor tank, and come with a 6/3/5 layout. I wouldn't expect this ship to be a PvP beast, but should do well in exploration sites and sub 8/10 DED sites.

While that is true, IIRC it is supposed to get a virus strength bonus as well (updated my theory craft to fit) and while a 3 mid slot is doable for a exploration ship it is barely practical for an all in one exploration ship.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-09-27 13:23:47 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

It might inherit Amarr's distaste for mids and a good armor tank, and come with a 6/3/5 layout. I wouldn't expect this ship to be a PvP beast, but should do well in exploration sites and sub 8/10 DED sites.

While that is true, IIRC it is supposed to get a virus strength bonus as well (updated my theory craft to fit) and while a 3 mid slot is doable for a exploration ship it is barely practical for an all in one exploration ship.

True. But a 6/4/4 layout would make for a rather weak armor tank unless it had +4% bonus from Amarr.

I think that 6/3/5 would work beautifully with the new module-exchanging POS thing. For the frigates, it looks like it might be 2/4/4 with a drone bay of 25 (or 50)?
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2013-09-27 13:27:40 UTC
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

It might inherit Amarr's distaste for mids and a good armor tank, and come with a 6/3/5 layout. I wouldn't expect this ship to be a PvP beast, but should do well in exploration sites and sub 8/10 DED sites.

While that is true, IIRC it is supposed to get a virus strength bonus as well (updated my theory craft to fit) and while a 3 mid slot is doable for a exploration ship it is barely practical for an all in one exploration ship.

True. But a 6/4/4 layout would make for a rather weak armor tank unless it had +4% bonus from Amarr.

I think that 6/3/5 would work beautifully with the new module-exchanging POS thing. For the frigates, it looks like it might be 2/4/4 with a drone bay of 25 (or 50)?

They did say it will get the Amarr resistance bonus so that is a confirmed.

As far as frigates go, it is going be hard to theorize about. they have gotten rid of the drone bay expansion bonus from skills on most every ship and I would expect it to go away for the ishkur and worm. and no frigate has ever gotten the 10% damage bonus.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2013-09-27 13:33:12 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
And I did know that during my thoughts on it, but it would not seem work to will with a 6/4/4 or 6/3/5 layout.

It might inherit Amarr's distaste for mids and a good armor tank, and come with a 6/3/5 layout. I wouldn't expect this ship to be a PvP beast, but should do well in exploration sites and sub 8/10 DED sites.

While that is true, IIRC it is supposed to get a virus strength bonus as well (updated my theory craft to fit) and while a 3 mid slot is doable for a exploration ship it is barely practical for an all in one exploration ship.

True. But a 6/4/4 layout would make for a rather weak armor tank unless it had +4% bonus from Amarr.

I think that 6/3/5 would work beautifully with the new module-exchanging POS thing. For the frigates, it looks like it might be 2/4/4 with a drone bay of 25 (or 50)?

They did say it will get the Amarr resistance bonus so that is a confirmed.

As far as frigates go, it is going be hard to theorize about. they have gotten rid of the drone bay expansion bonus from skills on most every ship and I would expect it to go away for the ishkur and worm. and no frigate has ever gotten the 10% damage bonus.

Hmm. Then SoE being centered around drones, it would likely be 3/4/3 (2 turrets) or even better, 4/3/3 (2 turrets + cloak + probe launcher).
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-09-27 13:39:18 UTC
Yup the basic information about the SOE ships is:
Covert Ops cloak
exploration (I can only imagine this is represented with +10 virus strength and a scan probe bonus)
Armor tanking
Drones

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Darling Hassasin
Parental Control
Didn't want that Sov anyway.
#68 - 2013-09-27 13:44:26 UTC
bloodknight2 wrote:
Oh look, ANOTHER thread about SOE ships. Please guys, tell us how AWESOME those ships are!

Cloaky T3 will still be better


You might be surprised, when they come out, by the dps comparison on cloaky configuration... In fact if they include a BS or even a 125 mbit cruiser (gila/ishtar/navy vexor style) you will certainly be surprised.

It will be another nail in the Bops coffin of course but thats neither here nor there.

However I have to say this... CCP the one single role ship we are actually currently missing in game is a viable sniper. (Not that I dont like this... its just... not as important).

The funny thing is all the noobs that will think they are invulnerable with these things and will receive a nasty kick in the teeth by things like drag bubbles and baiting... but then again I plan to be the onw doing the cicking so meh...
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#69 - 2013-09-27 13:50:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Nam Dnilb
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I do still love that whole "6 turret slots" from the art asset though.


Keep in mind with the new turrets we also got this firing arc thing going. Considering that, it seems there are four turret slots on the cruiser.

The turrets look like Heavy pulse lasers, don't they? I expect combat bonuses modeled after the Gnosis.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-09-27 14:19:08 UTC
Cruiser http://imgur.com/VqYroaz,jnPYG9J#0
There is defiantly at least 4 hardpoints on the ring, but I cannot confirm what those are on the hull its self.
Frigate http://imgur.com/VqYroaz,jnPYG9J#1
There appears to be only 2 hardpoints on this ship, again on the ring.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#71 - 2013-09-27 14:45:17 UTC
Since this thing is a cross-breed between amarr and gallente with a focus on exploration, drones, and a covert cloak, I would expect it to be roughly similar in slot layout to the Gila, except with the mids/lows swapped. So I'm guessing 5/4/6 (h/m/l) slot layout. Also, looking at this russian leak, it seems the frigate will have a bonus to lasers from the amarr frigate skill. So I'm fairly confident that the cruiser will be the same.

Special Ability: Can fit Covert Cloaking Device II

Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus: +10% bonus to medium energy turret optimal and capacitor usage
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: +10% bonus to damage and HP of drones

Including the cloak, this would leave 4 slots for weapons or utility. Let us assume it will have 4 turret hardpoints.

I would like to point out that as this ship will be a covert ops ship, it should have the ability to fit a covert cyno. Considering the 4 midslots and 6 low slots, it should be able to armor tank long enough to perform adequately as a blops hot-dropper.

Problem is that Amarr and Gallente are not known for having a lot of CPU, and fitting an expanded probe launcher consumes a lot of CPU. One could probe out the site with a core probe launcher and then covertly approach the target. But combat probes would be quicker.

Without any probing bonuses, I don't think you'll be seeing this used for a lot of combat probing. But as a PvE exploration ship I think it will do fine once you fit probing modules in the mids rather than web/point.

Unfortunately, it's range will still be typical for a medium-sized hull. Even with T2 medium beams using Radio your optimal will be about 75-80km. Since your mids would likely be probing modules, you're limited to tracking enhancers or rigs. Neither of these will give you a lot of range.

With sentry drones you will still likely be limited to <100km of range due to locking range limitations, unless CCP gives it a range boost. DPS should be good. But the Ishtar does sentry ratting a lot better.

I feel that this ship is trying to do too much, and thus failing at all of it. It will need above average fitting resources to accomplish anything because of the likelihood of no tanking bonuses. The range bonus on lasers doesn't mesh well with drones, unless you make it a sentry ship, which the Ishtar already does better. As for covert cloaking and hotdropping, there are better ships, such as Falcon, Arazu, and any tech 3.

I think an easy change to make would be to give it a different amarr cruiser bonus. Split weapon systems suck. Perhaps give it an armor repper amount bonus, since this ship is supposed to be for the explorers.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2013-09-27 15:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Omnathious Deninard
While I am not going to rule out the possibility of a laser bonus, they did say the amarr skill bonus would be a resistance bonus.
At the 42 minute point they state what they are looking at with the bonuses. http://www.twitch.tv/ccp/b/465203586
They state, armor resistance from amarr, drone bonus from gallente, then hacking, probing and covert ops cloak (exploration themed bonuses)

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-09-27 16:04:28 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

That said, I can see cov ops cloaks proliferation being good for small gangs in general, I suppose. The ability to fit a decent amount of dps and not show up on d scan will catch many people by surprise.

From what I've seen, most people in null don't watch d-scan. They use local, and if you can fool them into thinking you're someone harmless, well...
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-09-27 16:22:15 UTC
Tarn Kugisa wrote:
I love how they look like Aclubierre Drive concept ships


IT reminds me of some of the ships from the Traveller RPG:

http://www.freelancetraveller.com/features/gallery/andrewboulton/1_lab-ship-1280x720.jpg
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#75 - 2013-09-27 16:33:10 UTC
umm..
wow guys.
usually, 6 hard points on a pic means it has 3 turrets/launchers (3 for each side) so it can show all 3 turrets in a firing arc firing together. a revalation has 6 visual turret hard points, but only 3 turrets. 3 on each side.

they said amarr/gallente skillz to fly.

they said it has drone bonuses from gallente (dunno if it gets the tracking of the new domi or just the damage) but they did say it got the amarr armor bonus. there are your 2 racial bonuses.
plus, they did say it was getting scan probe bonuses, so there is your "special" bonus.

i might remember something about hacking and data bonuses, but i am not sue. but they did say cov ops for sure. they did also say "ganking the ganker" which means it will have a bite.
and then something about a nun wagging her finger at you if you agress someone...lol
Narcotic Gryffin
Digital Mercenaries Inc.
#76 - 2013-09-27 16:57:37 UTC
Just me or do they have some similarities to vulcan ships?

SOE Cruiser

Vulcan ship

http://www.sortius-is-a-geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/history-channel-hd-aliens-thumb.jpg
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#77 - 2013-09-27 17:56:08 UTC
ryev wrote:
yep, awesome. the paintjob reminds me a bit of the terran faction of X 3 :D


coincidentally guess what is out on the same day.

http://www.egosoft.com/games/x_rebirth/info_en.php

hows that for a coincidence, especially as CCP has brought the next release forward.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-09-27 22:31:22 UTC
You guys gotta stop focusing on the turrets you see in the concept art.

First, apart from Frigs, all (combat) ships have all 8 hardpoints on the model.. It allows CCP to adjust the ship in any way they want without going back to the drawing board.. Most ships they are easily overlooked, but they are there.. Best example to see it right away is look at the Corax.
Additionally, some ships will have up to 3 visible points on a ship where just a single turret/launcher is represented. Just seeing a concept art doesn't tell you how many useful hardpoints it'll have or turret slots or anything.. Keep that in mind :)

I LOVE the look of this ship.. It is without a doubt the best looking ship in Eve imho.

Now on to what it does.. if you ask me it shouldn't get any scanning bonuses.. That should be covered by adding SOCT ships in game as another "pirate" class, just as they are doing with SOE now.. ala make a production version of the Gnosis.

Based on the concept art, and what SOE is somewhat supposed to do (be helpful and such).. Honestly, I think the ships other bonus should be LOGI.. A T1 Covops Logi that can potentially tank decently.. Just my thoughts.. I mean give it the stats to let it fit maybe 2-3 Large Shield Transporters ( or 3 Mediums with bonuses ), Cov Ops Cloak, and a Logi Drone bonus for it's drone bay (10% DPS, 10% Hitpoints, 10% Logi Effectiveness ).. would definitely make for a nice change to blackops warfare.. As atm the only Blackops Logi is 25-50bil isk Etana.. which is another way of saying not viable.


Oh and about the people talking about how OP this could be (with no ideal what it really is..) because of how easy it is to get into and all.. It's easy to get into a Vigilant too, and it'll eat most ships in it's class at close range.. The Cloak doesn't make it all powerful, as it will still have a targeting delay, and probably have to compromise the fit to make the cloak work..

I see no reason this ship would be any more op in lowsec gangs than a group of Vigilants, or Gilas.. A ship is rarely OP. A ship is as powerful as the skills you have.. Getting into a hull doesn't mean you have any cap skills, any defence skills, any drone skills, etc.

In any case, Love the design, hope the stats make me want to use it, and make it useful.
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2013-09-27 22:32:10 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
umm..
wow guys.
usually, 6 hard points on a pic means it has 3 turrets/launchers (3 for each side) so it can show all 3 turrets in a firing arc firing together. a revalation has 6 visual turret hard points, but only 3 turrets. 3 on each side.

they said amarr/gallente skillz to fly.

they said it has drone bonuses from gallente (dunno if it gets the tracking of the new domi or just the damage) but they did say it got the amarr armor bonus. there are your 2 racial bonuses.
plus, they did say it was getting scan probe bonuses, so there is your "special" bonus.

i might remember something about hacking and data bonuses, but i am not sue. but they did say cov ops for sure. they did also say "ganking the ganker" which means it will have a bite.
and then something about a nun wagging her finger at you if you agress someone...lol


This makes quite a bit of sense!
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-09-27 22:50:28 UTC
Sentinel Smith wrote:
You guys gotta stop focusing on the turrets you see in the concept art.

First, apart from Frigs, all (combat) ships have all 8 hardpoints on the model.. It allows CCP to adjust the ship in any way they want without going back to the drawing board.. Most ships they are easily overlooked, but they are there.. Best example to see it right away is look at the Corax.
Additionally, some ships will have up to 3 visible points on a ship where just a single turret/launcher is represented. Just seeing a concept art doesn't tell you how many useful hardpoints it'll have or turret slots or anything.. Keep that in mind :)

I LOVE the look of this ship.. It is without a doubt the best looking ship in Eve imho.

Now on to what it does.. if you ask me it shouldn't get any scanning bonuses.. That should be covered by adding SOCT ships in game as another "pirate" class, just as they are doing with SOE now.. ala make a production version of the Gnosis.

Based on the concept art, and what SOE is somewhat supposed to do (be helpful and such).. Honestly, I think the ships other bonus should be LOGI.. A T1 Covops Logi that can potentially tank decently.. Just my thoughts.. I mean give it the stats to let it fit maybe 2-3 Large Shield Transporters ( or 3 Mediums with bonuses ), Cov Ops Cloak, and a Logi Drone bonus for it's drone bay (10% DPS, 10% Hitpoints, 10% Logi Effectiveness ).. would definitely make for a nice change to blackops warfare.. As atm the only Blackops Logi is 25-50bil isk Etana.. which is another way of saying not viable.


Oh and about the people talking about how OP this could be (with no ideal what it really is..) because of how easy it is to get into and all.. It's easy to get into a Vigilant too, and it'll eat most ships in it's class at close range.. The Cloak doesn't make it all powerful, as it will still have a targeting delay, and probably have to compromise the fit to make the cloak work..

I see no reason this ship would be any more op in lowsec gangs than a group of Vigilants, or Gilas.. A ship is rarely OP. A ship is as powerful as the skills you have.. Getting into a hull doesn't mean you have any cap skills, any defence skills, any drone skills, etc.

In any case, Love the design, hope the stats make me want to use it, and make it useful.


Phenomenal idea. Something new and interesting! I still do want a covops frigate that can blitz L1s and explore though... perhaps 1 class of SoCT logis and 1 class of SoCT explorers?