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Pirate faction Missile Battleship
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Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#1 - 2013-09-27 07:30:29 UTC
I don't know if that was made clear before, but usually the progression of a character that does L4 missions goes like:
T1 BS -> navy BS -> pirate faction BS.

This is a very natural and advantageous progression. However, there is not a single pirate faction that provides Missile ship, that outperforms CNR.
Rattlesnake - it is based on drones. You cannot fly it effectively without sentry drone skills. The missiles are just an addition, like drones are on other pirate faction BS's.
Golem - that is a marauder, it is designed to part work as salvager and there are 3 more ships that are not missile based.

Is it possible that we will see a Caldari/Minmatar ship (caldari usually uses missiles, minmatar sometimes use missiles), that will have bonuses for damage, projection or target painters, and will be mostly missiles based (maybe even long range torps), with small drone bay to take out frigates? Of course it should be shield tanked...
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-09-27 07:50:35 UTC
Mine was like

Drake -> Golem -> ??? -> Profit.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#3 - 2013-09-27 07:59:27 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mine was like

Drake -> Golem -> ??? -> Profit.


What is Golem's superior advantage to CNR?
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-27 08:39:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mine was like

Drake -> Golem -> ??? -> Profit.


What is Golem's superior advantage to CNR?

No useless camo paint.

EDIT: Oh yeah, superior Torp damage application. Which might not be as good as it used to be... Straight

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#5 - 2013-09-27 10:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
Debora Tsung wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Mine was like

Drake -> Golem -> ??? -> Profit.


What is Golem's superior advantage to RNI?

No useless camo paint.

EDIT: Oh yeah, superior Torp damage application. Which might not be as good as it used to be... Straight


+100% damage bonus = less waste + quicker application of damage 2 torpedoes worth for the price of one + TP bonus (which will get better with the quicker cycle time of TP's in Winter Expansion) + less cost for ammo Smile

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#6 - 2013-09-27 12:04:57 UTC
My hope is that they can somehow make the Rattlesnake appealing to both missile and drone users at the same time. If that's not possible then a Pirate hull missile boat would be the next best thing.


I think if they kept the high slot count at 6 and reduced the low slot count to 4 or 5 it might be possible (hopefully they add another mid to compensate Big smile). In this way, Drone users are going to need to install DLAs and DDAs and this limits missile DPS in an obvious manner. If you want Missile DPS then obviously you won't have good drone DPS. Coupled with the right mix of bonuses this might work.

Of course I wouldn't mind CCP using the Gurista Raven model to make a pure missile Pirate Boat with either...
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-09-27 12:08:40 UTC
Maybe with the introduction of the SOE ships they will push Guristas ships closer to missile ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2013-09-27 12:14:18 UTC
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
+100% damage bonus = less waste + quicker application of damage 2 torpedoes worth for the price of one + TP bonus (which will get better with the quicker cycle time of TP's in Winter Expansion) + less cost for ammo Smile


Listen to that man.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-27 12:16:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
My hope is that they can somehow make the Rattlesnake appealing to both missile and drone users at the same time. If that's not possible then a Pirate hull missile boat would be the next best thing.


I think if they kept the high slot count at 6 and reduced the low slot count to 4 or 5 it might be possible (hopefully they add another mid to compensate Big smile). In this way, Drone users are going to need to install DLAs and DDAs and this limits missile DPS in an obvious manner. If you want Missile DPS then obviously you won't have good drone DPS. Coupled with the right mix of bonuses this might work.


that would turn the rattlesnake into a dual weapons plattform that is mediocre at missiles and drones. Straight

Do not want.

My Rattlesnake sneers at your missiles. Haven't got a single launcher on that one, all full of drone links, tank and RR for my sentries.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.
Jasmine Assasin
The Holy Rollers
#10 - 2013-09-27 12:17:19 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
+100% damage bonus = less waste + quicker application of damage 2 torpedoes worth for the price of one + TP bonus (which will get better with the quicker cycle time of TP's in Winter Expansion) + less cost for ammo Smile


Listen to that man.


He makes it sound way more exciting than it actually is P

Also, Torpedo range is too short.
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#11 - 2013-09-27 12:57:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Ager Agemo
a 100% DPS geared battleship would be cool even with relatively glassy tank, think of something like:


Missile ROF
Missile Damage
Missile Speed
Missile Flight time


6/7/3

6 launchers
No tank bonuses

The ultimate missile spewing ship! which definitely needs to be minmatar/caldari with a sort of high speed hull, so it kites a bit and behaves like an oversized naga prototype (the one that had 8 torp launchers...)


hah... this thing with Rage torps would be a dreadnought bane... we really need battleships with oversized weapons ...
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#12 - 2013-09-27 12:58:49 UTC
Jasmine Assasin wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:
Maximus Aerelius wrote:
+100% damage bonus = less waste + quicker application of damage 2 torpedoes worth for the price of one + TP bonus (which will get better with the quicker cycle time of TP's in Winter Expansion) + less cost for ammo Smile


Listen to that man.


He makes it sound way more exciting than it actually is P

Also, Torpedo range is too short.


Yeah I do fly Golem and it is perfect for something like Enemies abound, Damsel e.t.c., but at the same time it is horrible at something like Assault, which is one of the profitable missions in Guristas space. Juggling the painters is a pain (if you have >2 of them), on other marauders you need to worry about juggling tractor beams and salvagers - strength of the marauder is in the tractoring and salvaging, but Golem pilot also needs to pay attention to Painter cycles and such. 100KM+ ships can be shot down by Cruises pretty easily but for Torps it's a problem... If Golem could shoot torps to 100KM then it would be too good compared to other Marauders, but again, this is not about Golem, this is about missile pirate BS.
For Golem you need to train the Marauder skill which requires advanced weapons, so it takes 60 days to jump from CNR to Golem. But to jump to Mach you just need to get the other BS skill level to 5 and you are ready to go...
Josilin du Guesclin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2013-09-27 13:04:12 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
I don't know if that was made clear before, but usually the progression of a character that does L4 missions goes like:
T1 BS -> navy BS -> pirate faction BS.

This is a very natural and advantageous progression. However, there is not a single pirate faction that provides Missile ship, that outperforms CNR.
Rattlesnake - it is based on drones. You cannot fly it effectively without sentry drone skills. The missiles are just an addition, like drones are on other pirate faction BS's.
Golem - that is a marauder, it is designed to part work as salvager and there are 3 more ships that are not missile based.

Is it possible that we will see a Caldari/Minmatar ship (caldari usually uses missiles, minmatar sometimes use missiles), that will have bonuses for damage, projection or target painters, and will be mostly missiles based (maybe even long range torps), with small drone bay to take out frigates? Of course it should be shield tanked...


Ah, but there are already many Minmatar/???? pirate ships. There are fewer Amarr and very few Caldari ones (this is allowing for the upcoming SoE faction). Therefore, the one we need is Amarr/Caldari. So, an amour tanked missile ship, with armour resists and range and projection bonuses.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#14 - 2013-09-27 13:06:42 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
a 100% DPS geared battleship would be cool even with relatively glassy tank, think of something like:


Missile ROF
Missile Damage
Missile Speed
Missile Flight time


6/7/3

6 launchers
No tank bonuses

The ultimate missile spewing ship! which definitely needs to be minmatar/caldari with a sort of high speed hull, so it kites a bit and behaves like an oversized naga prototype (the one that had 8 torp launchers...)


hah... this thing with Rage torps would be a dreadnought bane... we really need battleships with oversized weapons ...


7 meds - i think to much. 6 is enough for 3 hardeners + 2 amps + 1 shiny booster = 1000tank in some cases so I don't thin kyou need that much.

I think it should be something like 7 6 4.
6 launchers + 1 utility slot (tractor beam is often needed in missions)
Role: +50% damage with cruises and torps
Caldari BS: +10% RoF
Minmatar BS: -5% explosion radius

Ship that is designed for missile damage (torps have very short range on it, so it's not really effective to use them)
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#15 - 2013-09-27 13:12:29 UTC
Josilin du Guesclin wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
I don't know if that was made clear before, but usually the progression of a character that does L4 missions goes like:
T1 BS -> navy BS -> pirate faction BS.

This is a very natural and advantageous progression. However, there is not a single pirate faction that provides Missile ship, that outperforms CNR.
Rattlesnake - it is based on drones. You cannot fly it effectively without sentry drone skills. The missiles are just an addition, like drones are on other pirate faction BS's.
Golem - that is a marauder, it is designed to part work as salvager and there are 3 more ships that are not missile based.

Is it possible that we will see a Caldari/Minmatar ship (caldari usually uses missiles, minmatar sometimes use missiles), that will have bonuses for damage, projection or target painters, and will be mostly missiles based (maybe even long range torps), with small drone bay to take out frigates? Of course it should be shield tanked...


Ah, but there are already many Minmatar/???? pirate ships. There are fewer Amarr and very few Caldari ones (this is allowing for the upcoming SoE faction). Therefore, the one we need is Amarr/Caldari. So, an amour tanked missile ship, with armour resists and range and projection bonuses.


Well, i thought about it and I don't think we need another Amarr/Caldari.
Caldari progression, starting with frigs and all the way to BS/Marauder is shield tank, so the Pirate faction one should also be Shield tanked. The point should be - you can upgrade with as little training as possible. CNR -> Rattlesnake = you need to train drone skills. If the new ship would be armor tanked then CNR -> ??? = you need to train armor skills.
And again, Minmatar usually do use shield tank and sometimes use missiles. Caldari use missiles and shield tanks. It should be a pretty neat combo...
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#16 - 2013-09-27 13:16:29 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
a 100% DPS geared battleship would be cool even with relatively glassy tank, think of something like:


Missile ROF
Missile Damage
Missile Speed
Missile Flight time


6/7/3

6 launchers
No tank bonuses

The ultimate missile spewing ship! which definitely needs to be minmatar/caldari with a sort of high speed hull, so it kites a bit and behaves like an oversized naga prototype (the one that had 8 torp launchers...)


hah... this thing with Rage torps would be a dreadnought bane... we really need battleships with oversized weapons ...


7 meds - i think to much. 6 is enough for 3 hardeners + 2 amps + 1 shiny booster = 1000tank in some cases so I don't thin kyou need that much.

I think it should be something like 7 6 4.
6 launchers + 1 utility slot (tractor beam is often needed in missions)
Role: +50% damage with cruises and torps
Caldari BS: +10% RoF
Minmatar BS: -5% explosion radius

Ship that is designed for missile damage (torps have very short range on it, so it's not really effective to use them)


but this is not a PVE ship, no ship should be PVE based, marauders suffer exactly of that problem.

application damage bonuses are too overpowered when DPS goes as high and it would look just like a buffed CNR.
also you don't seem to know how pirate ships work? there are 2 bonuses per race, where that role bonus comes from? this is not a T2 ship and is not a PVE ship.

it needs 7 mids because you will fit a scrambler, microwarpdrive, dual invul, cap booster, shield booster, stasis webifier.


Sigh... why people want everything to be pve ships?, I stand for the 6/7/3 brawler, no fourth slot so people have to choose for either maximixed damage or damage control, what you are proposing is a doitall pve ship.
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#17 - 2013-09-27 13:23:29 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
a 100% DPS geared battleship would be cool even with relatively glassy tank, think of something like:


Missile ROF
Missile Damage
Missile Speed
Missile Flight time


6/7/3

6 launchers
No tank bonuses

The ultimate missile spewing ship! which definitely needs to be minmatar/caldari with a sort of high speed hull, so it kites a bit and behaves like an oversized naga prototype (the one that had 8 torp launchers...)


hah... this thing with Rage torps would be a dreadnought bane... we really need battleships with oversized weapons ...


7 meds - i think to much. 6 is enough for 3 hardeners + 2 amps + 1 shiny booster = 1000tank in some cases so I don't thin kyou need that much.

I think it should be something like 7 6 4.
6 launchers + 1 utility slot (tractor beam is often needed in missions)
Role: +50% damage with cruises and torps
Caldari BS: +10% RoF
Minmatar BS: -5% explosion radius

Ship that is designed for missile damage (torps have very short range on it, so it's not really effective to use them)


but this is not a PVE ship, no ship should be PVE based, marauders suffer exactly of that problem.

application damage bonuses are too overpowered when DPS goes as high and it would look just like a buffed CNR.
also you don't seem to know how pirate ships work? there are 2 bonuses per race, where that role bonus comes from? this is not a T2 ship and is not a PVE ship.

it needs 7 mids because you will fit a scrambler, microwarpdrive, dual invul, cap booster, shield booster, stasis webifier.


Sigh... why people want everything to be pve ships?, I stand for the 6/7/3 brawler, no fourth slot so people have to choose for either maximixed damage or damage control, what you are proposing is a doitall pve ship.


OK, I want a missile Mach :) mach is great at PVE and it does have a (not Role) Special ability: 25% bonus to Large projectile turret rate of fire...
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#18 - 2013-09-27 13:25:01 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Ager Agemo wrote:
a 100% DPS geared battleship would be cool even with relatively glassy tank, think of something like:


Missile ROF
Missile Damage
Missile Speed
Missile Flight time


6/7/3

6 launchers
No tank bonuses

The ultimate missile spewing ship! which definitely needs to be minmatar/caldari with a sort of high speed hull, so it kites a bit and behaves like an oversized naga prototype (the one that had 8 torp launchers...)


hah... this thing with Rage torps would be a dreadnought bane... we really need battleships with oversized weapons ...


7 meds - i think to much. 6 is enough for 3 hardeners + 2 amps + 1 shiny booster = 1000tank in some cases so I don't thin kyou need that much.

I think it should be something like 7 6 4.
6 launchers + 1 utility slot (tractor beam is often needed in missions)
Role: +50% damage with cruises and torps
Caldari BS: +10% RoF
Minmatar BS: -5% explosion radius

Ship that is designed for missile damage (torps have very short range on it, so it's not really effective to use them)


but this is not a PVE ship, no ship should be PVE based, marauders suffer exactly of that problem.

application damage bonuses are too overpowered when DPS goes as high and it would look just like a buffed CNR.
also you don't seem to know how pirate ships work? there are 2 bonuses per race, where that role bonus comes from? this is not a T2 ship and is not a PVE ship.

it needs 7 mids because you will fit a scrambler, microwarpdrive, dual invul, cap booster, shield booster, stasis webifier.


Sigh... why people want everything to be pve ships?, I stand for the 6/7/3 brawler, no fourth slot so people have to choose for either maximixed damage or damage control, what you are proposing is a doitall pve ship.


OK, I want a missile Mach :) mach is great at PVE and it does have a (not Role) Special ability: 25% bonus to Large projectile turret rate of fire...


and that might be the specific reason the machariel its the most overpowered ship and due for a upcoming nerf?
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#19 - 2013-09-27 13:31:37 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:

and that might be the specific reason the machariel its the most overpowered ship and due for a upcoming nerf?


I heard about this "upcoming" nerf for 2 years. When it actually happens - then OK, i will agree with your point
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#20 - 2013-09-27 15:30:07 UTC
Just fly your CN Raven.
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