These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

DEVSWARM OP: CCP Should Give Goonswarm Trillions Of Isk Worth of Crap

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2013-09-27 10:24:38 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
However, there is a big difference between creating content for your own gain and donating 320 billion isk to help improve a CCP Event.

is there a specific lower limit to the amount of ISK you have to donate to get hundreds of billions of ships given to you without any meaningful oversight? because we did sponsor hulkageddon V you know

E: also come on are you really pretending SOMER donating money wasn't for his own gain? it's called "advertising" (hint: he makes IRL and ingame money off his site)



Everything the Goonies did was because they stand to gain. Goonies would not have sponsored hulkageddon V if you did not stand to gain something.

I have no issue with that and I am glad that you did.

Donating 320bil isk (yeah I know its a drop in the ocean for him) for advertising a site which most people already know exist is very little gain.

It was still a very generous offer which I imagine went someway to improve the over all tournament.

Also you claim he makes RL money from the site, by any chance could you expand on this?
320b for SOME is literally nothing, and since it's rewared by a lot of unique ships which people will have to them pay for tickets to have a chance to win, he makes a LOT more back.

As for money making, firstly, SOMER makes money from ads.
Secondly SOMER is a laundering service for RMT. They run shill accounts which "win" then pass the isk to other players for real cash. Since the shill account is made to be totally separate, SOMER doesn't have to worry about them getting banned.

I hope you have some proof of this. Not particularly happy about the free isk CCP is giving these people but accusations of the type you made should only really be made with proof.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#222 - 2013-09-27 10:28:08 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Since I use ad blocker I don't see any ads hence the why I asked the question.

I have already stated that the isk he donated was little as far as the isk he makes, but still more then anybody else has ever given.

You do realise that CCP have already stated that they have investigated SommerBlink.

So what you are saying is that CCP are aware of Somerblink RMT.

So Goons, for which you are part of, are now saying CCP are aware and endorse 3rd Party Site RMT'ing.. wow


I find it hard to believe that CCP have investigated somer in a satisfactory manner. There have been, according to somer, millions of transactions. Have CCP dug through and followed up on every single on of those transactions and the accounts involved? Do CCP have access to Somers external-to-EVE-online site, services and code that manages these transactions? They've dug through those services and code and guaranteed that nothing fishy has ever happened in a single one of the events?

Really? CCP have done that?

Even if CCP have done that (which is incredibly unlikely)... when are they going to offer similar checks and guarantees for competing player entities? Will they audit my transactions and publicly state for everyone to see that I am completely trustworthy and have honoured everything in the history of my account? It'd be great for my in-game business if CCP would make such glowing public statements. They're doing it for at least one player entity, why not others?
Sirane Elrek
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#223 - 2013-09-27 10:34:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Sirane Elrek
Lucas Kell wrote:
Secondly SOMER is a laundering service for RMT. They run shill accounts which "win" then pass the isk to other players for real cash. Since the shill account is made to be totally separate, SOMER doesn't have to worry about them getting banned.

Uh yeah did you notice how I explicitly didn't claim they were doing RMT? That's because I can't prove it. Nor can you. (Nor do I believe they are RMTing.)
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#224 - 2013-09-27 10:39:17 UTC
why would they need to RMT when CCP, as a company, is directing it's entire customer base to somer blinks website? That's a nice boost to ad revenue, and of course a portion of any of the GTCs bought go to somer too.

They don't need RMT, they've already got the real monetary gains covered quite legitimately
Prince Kobol
#225 - 2013-09-27 10:40:33 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Since I use ad blocker I don't see any ads hence the why I asked the question.

I have already stated that the isk he donated was little as far as the isk he makes, but still more then anybody else has ever given.

You do realise that CCP have already stated that they have investigated SommerBlink.

So what you are saying is that CCP are aware of Somerblink RMT.

So Goons, for which you are part of, are now saying CCP are aware and endorse 3rd Party Site RMT'ing.. wow


I find it hard to believe that CCP have investigated somer in a satisfactory manner. There have been, according to somer, millions of transactions. Have CCP dug through and followed up on every single on of those transactions and the accounts involved? Do CCP have access to Somers external-to-EVE-online site, services and code that manages these transactions? They've dug through those services and code and guaranteed that nothing fishy has ever happened in a single one of the events?

Really? CCP have done that?

Even if CCP have done that (which is incredibly unlikely)... when are they going to offer similar checks and guarantees for competing player entities? Will they audit my transactions and publicly state for everyone to see that I am completely trustworthy and have honoured everything in the history of my account? It'd be great for my in-game business if CCP would make such glowing public statements. They're doing it for at least one player entity, why not others?


So are you now saying that CCP endorses RMT'ing?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#226 - 2013-09-27 10:42:38 UTC
If SOMER had to instead of getting the ships for free, pay the value of the ships and prizes with isk to CCP they would still very likely make a lot of isk (and cash). That would at least be something they're losing to gain something.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#227 - 2013-09-27 10:50:48 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
However, there is a big difference between creating content for your own gain and donating 320 billion isk to help improve a CCP Event.

is there a specific lower limit to the amount of ISK you have to donate to get hundreds of billions of ships given to you without any meaningful oversight? because we did sponsor hulkageddon V you know

E: also come on are you really pretending SOMER donating money wasn't for his own gain? it's called "advertising" (hint: he makes IRL and ingame money off his site)



Everything the Goonies did was because they stand to gain. Goonies would not have sponsored hulkageddon V if you did not stand to gain something.

I have no issue with that and I am glad that you did.

Donating 320bil isk (yeah I know its a drop in the ocean for him) for advertising a site which most people already know exist is very little gain.

It was still a very generous offer which I imagine went someway to improve the over all tournament.

Also you claim he makes RL money from the site, by any chance could you expand on this?
320b for SOME is literally nothing, and since it's rewared by a lot of unique ships which people will have to them pay for tickets to have a chance to win, he makes a LOT more back.

As for money making, firstly, SOMER makes money from ads.
Secondly SOMER is a laundering service for RMT. They run shill accounts which "win" then pass the isk to other players for real cash. Since the shill account is made to be totally separate, SOMER doesn't have to worry about them getting banned.



Since I use ad blocker I don't see any ads hence the why I asked the question.

I have already stated that the isk he donated was little as far as the isk he makes, but still more then anybody else has ever given.

You do realise that CCP have already stated that they have investigated SommerBlink.

So what you are saying is that CCP are aware of Somerblink RMT.

So Goons, for which you are part of, are now saying CCP are aware and endorse 3rd Party Site RMT'ing.. wow

lol, investigated. How exactly did they do that?
The whole somer blink system runs on their own systems, so anything they report to CCP is not independently verified. And I doubt with the volume of winners that CCP checked the activity of every blink winner to look for shill accounts.
Aside from that CCP have stated clearly that they have no way of knowing if somer will scam, and no way to stop them if they do.

In short CCP are unable to investigate whether somer RMT or not as they've generated enough traffic to mask any activity they do. But CCP are boosting that activity by officially endorsing them. There have been several big RMT scam which have gone well under CCPs radar, so them assuming this is all on the level is pretty dumb.

Oh and while I'm part of the CFC, I speak for myself, not them. Likewise, I take what you say as from you, not from NC, unless stated otherwise.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Samantha Utama
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#228 - 2013-09-27 10:54:53 UTC
Abloo bloo bloo... :smugdog:
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#229 - 2013-09-27 10:58:08 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I hope you have some proof of this. Not particularly happy about the free isk CCP is giving these people but accusations of the type you made should only really be made with proof.

Sirane Elrek wrote:
Uh yeah did you notice how I explicitly didn't claim they were doing RMT? That's because I can't prove it. Nor can you. (Nor do I believe they are RMTing.)
What proof is needed. I've heard on a number of occasions that this type of thing is happening. That's good enough for me.
I not when other people are accused of RMT no clear evidence is needed, hearsay is enough, so for me the same is true.

Also, lets face it, somer clearly won't be making enough of of the few ads they have to make it worthwhile. We all know all of these gambling sites use shill accounts to skim funds for something, and they supposedly make enough legit isk from the site to pay for everything tey need, so the illegitimate skimming is most likely put towards RMT. Think back to all of the other big groups that that have made 9sk through a site, then years later, there's a news article "onoes, X has made $20000 though RMT!".

Add it all up and the chances of the people saying somer is RMTing being wrong are IMHO very slim.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#230 - 2013-09-27 10:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Some furious back peddling



Yet you are still saying, insisting that Somerblink RMT'ing and with the isk they make, it would be on a massive scale.

For CCP not to know this would be "dumb" as you put it.

So if it is so clear that Somerblink must be RMT'ing, CCP by endorsing Somerblink is in turn endorsing a 3rd Party Site which is involved in a massive level of RMT'ing.

Also I am interested as I am sure others will be, which other big RMT Scams have gone under CCP's radar?

You will have to forgive me as I am not as well versed in the art of RMT scamming as you seem to be.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#231 - 2013-09-27 10:59:40 UTC
Oh and in addition to the above. It's all really irrelevant. What's relevant is this.
CCP need to show us how they are 100% certain that somer is not an RMT empire. If they can't show that, then giving them an official endorsement is one of the stupidest ideas they've ever had.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#232 - 2013-09-27 11:07:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Oh and in addition to the above. It's all really irrelevant. What's relevant is this.
CCP need to show us how they are 100% certain that somer is not an RMT empire. If they can't show that, then giving them an official endorsement is one of the stupidest ideas they've ever had.



Of course it all relevant, Its relevant as you have openly accused of CCP knowingly endorsing a site which as you put, its dumb to believe they are not RMT'ing, with the following damning evidence

"What proof is needed. I've heard on a number of occasions that this type of thing is happening. That's good enough for me.

I not when other people are accused of RMT no clear evidence is needed, hearsay is enough, so for me the same is true."


In which case there are aliens on mars, big foot, loch ness monster, unicorns, New World Order, Anything to with Dan Brown etc is all true because somebody said it was...
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#233 - 2013-09-27 11:07:39 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yet you are still saying, insisting that Somerblink RMT'ing and with the isk they make, it would be on a massive scale.

For CCP not to know this would be "dumb" as you put it.

So if it is so clear that Somerblink must be RMT'ing, CCP by endorsing Somerblink is in turn endorsing a 3rd Party Site which is involved in a massive level of RMT'ing.

Also I am interested as I am sure others will be, which other big RMT Scams have gone under CCP's radar?

You will have to forgive me as I am not as well versed in the art of RMT scamming as you seem to be.
There's plenty still out there quite obvious in what they do as they advertise it. Hell, one major RMT group even had an ad on EN24 the other day. I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don;t want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites.
If CCP aren't even able to stop a group that publicly advertises that they are RMTers, and even states that buying from them is an EULA breach, how can they be expected to be able to state with 100% certainty that somer aren't RMTing?

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Prince Kobol
#234 - 2013-09-27 11:11:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yet you are still saying, insisting that Somerblink RMT'ing and with the isk they make, it would be on a massive scale.

For CCP not to know this would be "dumb" as you put it.

So if it is so clear that Somerblink must be RMT'ing, CCP by endorsing Somerblink is in turn endorsing a 3rd Party Site which is involved in a massive level of RMT'ing.

Also I am interested as I am sure others will be, which other big RMT Scams have gone under CCP's radar?

You will have to forgive me as I am not as well versed in the art of RMT scamming as you seem to be.
There's plenty still out there quite obvious in what they do as they advertise it. Hell, one major RMT group even had an ad on EN24 the other day. I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don;t want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites.
If CCP aren't even able to stop a group that publicly advertises that they are RMTers, and even states that buying from them is an EULA breach, how can they be expected to be able to state with 100% certainty that somer aren't RMTing?


Of course you can name them. You wont be accused of anything.

Hell I often troll RMT sites looking for characters to see I a reconsign any of them.

It isn't hard. Anybody can say I saw this but I won't say what it was.. watch,

"Yesterday whilst randaomly surfing the net I came across one major RMT group that even had an ad on TMC . I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don't want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites

See?

Fact is you have openly accused CCP endorsing RMT'ing by supporting Somerblink with no facts what so ever.

Still waiting for the other RMT's scams that have gone under CCP's radar?
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#235 - 2013-09-27 11:16:27 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yet you are still saying, insisting that Somerblink RMT'ing and with the isk they make, it would be on a massive scale.

For CCP not to know this would be "dumb" as you put it.

So if it is so clear that Somerblink must be RMT'ing, CCP by endorsing Somerblink is in turn endorsing a 3rd Party Site which is involved in a massive level of RMT'ing.

Also I am interested as I am sure others will be, which other big RMT Scams have gone under CCP's radar?

You will have to forgive me as I am not as well versed in the art of RMT scamming as you seem to be.
There's plenty still out there quite obvious in what they do as they advertise it. Hell, one major RMT group even had an ad on EN24 the other day. I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don;t want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites.
If CCP aren't even able to stop a group that publicly advertises that they are RMTers, and even states that buying from them is an EULA breach, how can they be expected to be able to state with 100% certainty that somer aren't RMTing?


Of course you can name them. You wont be accused of anything.

Hell I often troll RMT sites looking for characters to see I a reconsign any of them.

It isn't hard. Anybody can say I saw this but I won't say what it was.. watch,

"Yesterday whilst randaomly surfing the net I came across one major RMT group that even had an ad on TMC . I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don't want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites

See?

Fact is you have openly accused CCP endorsing RMT'ing by supporting Somerblink with no facts what so ever.
Nope, still not gonna name it. I'm sure you can find it if your really want to.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Novenas Heresy
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2013-09-27 11:16:46 UTC
I'm not sure if everyone has accidently got off topic, or someone intentionally steered the conversation to RMTing to discredit the criticisms of this decision. Either way RMTing has nothing to do with this. Somer Blink, like any other EvE player, *could* be involved in RMTing, but that's not the point. The point is that no matter how honest he/they may be, CCP shouldn't be giving them free special edition ships unless they're giving the same treatment to other EvE players/cops/allliances.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#237 - 2013-09-27 11:16:58 UTC
stupid post in stupid goon thread

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Prince Kobol
#238 - 2013-09-27 11:21:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yet you are still saying, insisting that Somerblink RMT'ing and with the isk they make, it would be on a massive scale.

For CCP not to know this would be "dumb" as you put it.

So if it is so clear that Somerblink must be RMT'ing, CCP by endorsing Somerblink is in turn endorsing a 3rd Party Site which is involved in a massive level of RMT'ing.

Also I am interested as I am sure others will be, which other big RMT Scams have gone under CCP's radar?

You will have to forgive me as I am not as well versed in the art of RMT scamming as you seem to be.
There's plenty still out there quite obvious in what they do as they advertise it. Hell, one major RMT group even had an ad on EN24 the other day. I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don;t want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites.
If CCP aren't even able to stop a group that publicly advertises that they are RMTers, and even states that buying from them is an EULA breach, how can they be expected to be able to state with 100% certainty that somer aren't RMTing?


Of course you can name them. You wont be accused of anything.

Hell I often troll RMT sites looking for characters to see I a reconsign any of them.

It isn't hard. Anybody can say I saw this but I won't say what it was.. watch,

"Yesterday whilst randaomly surfing the net I came across one major RMT group that even had an ad on TMC . I'm not going to name sites, as they are active, and I don't want to be accused to supporting RMT though publicising the sites

See?

Fact is you have openly accused CCP endorsing RMT'ing by supporting Somerblink with no facts what so ever.
Nope, still not gonna name it. I'm sure you can find it if your really want to.


Again you are not backing up your claim of CCP Endorsing RMT'ing by Supporting Somerblink or come out with the other Big RMT Scams that have gone uder CCP's Radar.

You have yet been able to backup one single claim you have made.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#239 - 2013-09-27 11:23:36 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
I hope you have some proof of this. Not particularly happy about the free isk CCP is giving these people but accusations of the type you made should only really be made with proof.

Sirane Elrek wrote:
Uh yeah did you notice how I explicitly didn't claim they were doing RMT? That's because I can't prove it. Nor can you. (Nor do I believe they are RMTing.)
What proof is needed. I've heard on a number of occasions that this type of thing is happening. That's good enough for me.
I not when other people are accused of RMT no clear evidence is needed, hearsay is enough, so for me the same is true.

Also, lets face it, somer clearly won't be making enough of of the few ads they have to make it worthwhile. We all know all of these gambling sites use shill accounts to skim funds for something, and they supposedly make enough legit isk from the site to pay for everything tey need, so the illegitimate skimming is most likely put towards RMT. Think back to all of the other big groups that that have made 9sk through a site, then years later, there's a news article "onoes, X has made $20000 though RMT!".

Add it all up and the chances of the people saying somer is RMTing being wrong are IMHO very slim.

You're defaming them. Tarnishing a real life businesses name by spreading rumors about that are unproven and as you admit unable to be proven. Likely you won't be sued but they would have an open and shut case with you. You knowingly said something damaging about them that you don't know to be true. What you said harms their good reputation. You admit you have no proof, one actual defense to defamation (reasonably truthful claims).

I doubt a magistrate or judge would be cool with "hearsay is enough" :)

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Red Templar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#240 - 2013-09-27 11:24:47 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Sirane Elrek wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
However, there is a big difference between creating content for your own gain and donating 320 billion isk to help improve a CCP Event.

is there a specific lower limit to the amount of ISK you have to donate to get hundreds of billions of ships given to you without any meaningful oversight? because we did sponsor hulkageddon V you know

E: also come on are you really pretending SOMER donating money wasn't for his own gain? it's called "advertising" (hint: he makes IRL and ingame money off his site)



Everything the Goonies did was because they stand to gain. Goonies would not have sponsored hulkageddon V if you did not stand to gain something.

I have no issue with that and I am glad that you did.

Donating 320bil isk (yeah I know its a drop in the ocean for him) for advertising a site which most people already know exist is very little gain.

It was still a very generous offer which I imagine went someway to improve the over all tournament.

Also you claim he makes RL money from the site, by any chance could you expand on this?
320b for SOME is literally nothing, and since it's rewared by a lot of unique ships which people will have to them pay for tickets to have a chance to win, he makes a LOT more back.

As for money making, firstly, SOMER makes money from ads.
Secondly SOMER is a laundering service for RMT. They run shill accounts which "win" then pass the isk to other players for real cash. Since the shill account is made to be totally separate, SOMER doesn't have to worry about them getting banned.



Since I use ad blocker I don't see any ads hence the why I asked the question.

I have already stated that the isk he donated was little as far as the isk he makes, but still more then anybody else has ever given.

You do realise that CCP have already stated that they have investigated SommerBlink.

So what you are saying is that CCP are aware of Somerblink RMT.

So Goons, for which you are part of, are now saying CCP are aware and endorse 3rd Party Site RMT'ing.. wow


Maybe i missed something. Can you please provide link to the statement of CCP, where they stated that they investigated SommerBlink?
Much obliged.

[b]For Love. For Peace. For Honor.

For None of the Above.

For Pony![/b]