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A review of player giveaways with CCP and third party sites

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#301 - 2013-09-27 04:34:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Sid Hudgens wrote:
If CCP wants to compensate somer blink for helping promote eve vegas how is that anybody's business? Would it be ok if it were done with RL money? What if that were then converted to plex and then isk?

If the rest of you ***** had an organization that ccp thought could help promote their game you might get the same deal. But you're all just a bunch of hysterical nerds ... so no dice.


Sid, the positive reinforcement of CCP and tone of your posts seems so open, trustworthy and upstanding. I'm sure CCP will choose to sponsor you next.

That's what you're after right?
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#302 - 2013-09-27 04:36:08 UTC
By that thinking they shouldn't be sending devs to eve vegas either.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Tiffenay
Synchrodyne Holding
#303 - 2013-09-27 04:39:12 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
If CCP wants to compensate somer blink for helping promote eve vegas how is that anybody's business? Would it be ok if it were done with RL money? What if that were then converted to plex and then isk?

If the rest of you ***** had an organization that ccp thought could help promote their game you might get the same deal. But you're all just a bunch of hysterical nerds ... so no dice.


Yes, giving them real world money for real world promotion work, which could be used to buy plex, would be a real world business deal, and completely legitimate. This follows the constraints of the sandbox, as some player had to pony up $$ for the plex.

But giving dev-spawned in-game limited edition bling ships absolutely breaks the sandbox metaphor of the game.

So yeah, we could all just accept it and move on.... but you're not playing the game you thought you were, which CCP advertised, which it prides itself on, which the players pride themselves in playing.

You are playing a rigged game, one rigged for you to lose.

How does that make you feel? Still don't care?

Then you shouldn't even be posting here.
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#304 - 2013-09-27 04:43:03 UTC
Of all the convoluted logic...

If they could pay them in real money, why can't they pay them in isk?

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Lulu McMullin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2013-09-27 04:44:49 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
If CCP wants to compensate somer blink for helping promote eve vegas how is that anybody's business? Would it be ok if it were done with RL money? What if that were then converted to plex and then isk?

If the rest of you ***** had an organization that ccp thought could help promote their game you might get the same deal. But you're all just a bunch of hysterical nerds ... so no dice.


Yes, real life money would be fine, as it gives no in-game advantages. Free subscription time would also be acceptable. Giving in game currency/items to a 3rd party player/player organization is favouritism, intended or no. Giving limited edition items to a 3rd party to distribute via a method that excludes many players, for various reasons, is just pants on head r3tard3d (censored on purpose?) given the history of T2 BPO scandal (which was no different, other than now it's announced in the open).
KIller Wabbit
MEME Thoughts
#306 - 2013-09-27 05:05:58 UTC
Of course Blink being a serious sponsor of the in and out of game activities of certain CCP devs (prior to employment of course) wasn't an influence on CCP's decision here. No sir.
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#307 - 2013-09-27 05:08:28 UTC
Chribba wrote:
Glad to see that you reviewed these giveaways and decided to do something different of them. Our history and what is created with said history is one of the key things of EVE - so glad to see this!

More thoughts might come, but this is my initial one.

/c



agreed whole heartedly, it's good to know ccp will put in the effort to re think and correct poor choices when it matters, now if only their ship design team will go back to remembering their roots....

most certainly a step in the right direction though and it's good to see
Tiffenay
Synchrodyne Holding
#308 - 2013-09-27 05:09:56 UTC
Sid Hudgens wrote:
Of all the convoluted logic...

If they could pay them in real money, why can't they pay them in isk?


CCP invented the plex system as a mechanism to address RMT for isk. It is convoluted, but is accepted by the players as a less than ideal but reasonable compromise that keeps the majority of $$ spent on isk going to CCP, ostensibly to improve EvE for everyone, instead of lining the pockets of some bot-farming enterprise.

So this is the only acceptable method for converting real money to isk, because it must take place within the market, subject to supply and demand, and requiring some player, somewhere, to pony up the $$ for the plex.

If Somer does Real World work for CCP, they should be compensated in Real World Money. If they want to buy plex with that money, great, some guy out there with plex for sale would really appreciated that!

But giving Somer bling ships to sale, well that is one Rubicon I will not cross.
Joey Thelleree
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#309 - 2013-09-27 05:12:02 UTC
Real money, Plex, and Game time is the only action CCP Should take in this matter. Giving a group a bunch of sweet toys is not the way to go. The Reason being is it Wreaks the game mechanics. It makes it hard for people to make a profit on the market. It gives miners a slap in the face. CCP I want a Golden Nyx please! Or since your being so kind how about just give everyone in the game Titans.
Joey Thelleree
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#310 - 2013-09-27 05:26:53 UTC
Sweat, Blood, Some Tears, Teamwork, and time put into game, should be the only way to advance yourself in this game. Any other way is unjust and unfair to all other parties that play this game. This Affects every aspect of eve. From the Miner to the Pirate. So Support a Fair and just Eve. Real Money, Game Time, Smile and a HandShake and maybe a few dancers is the only Fair way to handle this.
Prince Kobol
#311 - 2013-09-27 06:44:40 UTC
Gospadin wrote:
0.00000001% of the eve population care that you changed what ships you're giving away.

90% of the eve population care that CCP is funneling isk to a player corporation.

Why not just shuffle moon minerals around to favor TEST while you're at it?


90%.. wow, can you pull any other random numbers out of thin air?
Prince Kobol
#312 - 2013-09-27 06:47:11 UTC
KIller Wabbit wrote:
Of course Blink being a serious sponsor of the in and out of game activities of certain CCP devs (prior to employment of course) wasn't an influence on CCP's decision here. No sir.


Could you please expand on this thread for those of us who do not have any idea what you are talking about or is it because you once heard somebody say they heard somebody say something?
Prince Kobol
#313 - 2013-09-27 06:47:52 UTC
Joey Thelleree wrote:
Sweat, Blood, Some Tears, Teamwork, and time put into game, should be the only way to advance yourself in this game. Any other way is unjust and unfair to all other parties that play this game. This Affects every aspect of eve. From the Miner to the Pirate. So Support a Fair and just Eve. Real Money, Game Time, Smile and a HandShake and maybe a few dancers is the only Fair way to handle this.


Sweat, Blood, Some Tears, Teamwork, and time put into game

Nice dramatization :)
Prince Kobol
#314 - 2013-09-27 06:50:05 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Sid Hudgens wrote:
If CCP wants to compensate somer blink for helping promote eve vegas how is that anybody's business? Would it be ok if it were done with RL money? What if that were then converted to plex and then isk?

If the rest of you ***** had an organization that ccp thought could help promote their game you might get the same deal. But you're all just a bunch of hysterical nerds ... so no dice.


Because they do not provide priceless in-game compensation to other entities that promote EVE.

I would be fine with this if CCP also provided unique ships to entities like Goonswarm (who I believe promote the game among Something Awful forum members), TEST (who I believe do something similar on Reddit), the New Order (who also promote EVE quite a bit) and no doubt hundreds of lesser-known entities. They do not.

As it stands this giveaway smacks of the CCP employee fraud around giving BOB members tech 2 BPOs back in the days before I played.




Wow.. funny how you miss out people Chribba and Red Frog and only talk about Goons + TEST
Prince Kobol
#315 - 2013-09-27 06:52:26 UTC
Dalto Bane wrote:
Not to say that I support Somber, but I want to play the Devils Advocate for a moment since a majority of the post about this scandal are fairly one sided against CCP actions in all this. Somber Blink funded the New Eden Open, gave 10 billion isk to all the teams, funded the whole thing I think, right? It was during that time, if memory serves me correctly that CCP gave a statement about supporting more of these player driven events. I understand the anger that many of you are expressing. I'm with you on that, but at the end of the day it is their intellectual property. I would imagine that, let's say a scam were to happen and it be nothing short of the Italian Job, that whatever ships that were "won" would vanish from hangers, isk would appear from thin air, refunded in the wallets of the participants. Somber Blink is rich my brothers and sisters of New Eden. These ships are the rarest of the rare..... but they got 10 times that in the business they conduct and it would be baffling to think they would risk the payout and publicity they are getting to do anything too shady... but I also could be dead wrong.

Not to speak for CCP, but I think their thought process on it was that Somber had a lot of praise in past events from the community and they did not think it would not get the backlash it did, because letting a billionaire hold on to your credit card when you have fraud protection on it really doesn't seem like a big deal until you hear how the guy made his billions. Anyway, it is just a game, with internet spaceships, lottos, bots, trolls, elitist, pubbies, and last but not least evil Goons that deserve trillions of isk because, they have done a lot to keep this game interesting at any rate.


Shhhh..

People (well most seem to be goons + alt on this thread don't want to here about how Somer funded New Eden Open and provided player driven content.
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#316 - 2013-09-27 06:55:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Abernie
Dalto Bane wrote:
Not to say that I support Somber, but I want to play the Devils Advocate for a moment since a majority of the post about this scandal are fairly one sided against CCP actions in all this. Somber Blink funded the New Eden Open, gave 10 billion isk to all the teams, funded the whole thing I think, right? It was during that time, if memory serves me correctly that CCP gave a statement about supporting more of these player driven events. I understand the anger that many of you are expressing. I'm with you on that, but at the end of the day it is their intellectual property. I would imagine that, let's say a scam were to happen and it be nothing short of the Italian Job, that whatever ships that were "won" would vanish from hangers, isk would appear from thin air, refunded in the wallets of the participants. Somber Blink is rich my brothers and sisters of New Eden. These ships are the rarest of the rare..... but they got 10 times that in the business they conduct and it would be baffling to think they would risk the payout and publicity they are getting to do anything too shady... but I also could be dead wrong.

Not to speak for CCP, but I think their thought process on it was that Somber had a lot of praise in past events from the community and they did not think it would not get the backlash it did, because letting a billionaire hold on to your credit card when you have fraud protection on it really doesn't seem like a big deal until you hear how the guy made his billions. Anyway, it is just a game, with internet spaceships, lottos, bots, trolls, elitist, pubbies, and last but not least evil Goons that deserve trillions of isk because, they have done a lot to keep this game interesting at any rate.

1. "This 3rd party has done marketing in form of sponsoring events so it's cool that CCP spawns them a trillion isk to pay them back." I like this logic.

2. CCP doing whatever with their IP has almost destroyed EVE multiple times in the past.

3. CCP Navigator is straight up claiming that CCP has audited all of somers operations over the years and vouching for them for the future, both ingame and on their site.

4. When it comes to taking prices and running, give somer some credit. They aren't idiots. Why just take the ships and get the backlash you mentioned when they could just rig the lottery to give the ships to whichever character they want. And this is easily least of my issues with the whole situation.

On another note; still wondering where the hell is CSM... What?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#317 - 2013-09-27 07:10:40 UTC
Abernie wrote:
3. CCP Navigator is straight up claiming that CCP has audited all of somers operations over the years...

Yep

Quote:
...and vouching for them for the future, both ingame and on their site.

To be fair (and I'm as critical as anyone on this issue) - No, they haven't claimed that. They might personally believe it, but have openly stated there is no guarantee that this won't be scammed by Blink.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#318 - 2013-09-27 07:19:19 UTC
A rant post has been removed.

Forum rule 3. Ranting is prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Abernie
Thoroughly Incompetent
#319 - 2013-09-27 07:20:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Abernie
Chitsa Jason wrote:
First :)

Edit:

While the changes are indeed nice. Me and other CSM members still share concerns over the following things:

1. Giving away ships through a single player driven entity and excluding others.
2. Giving away a lot of in-game value to a profit driven entity.
3. Trusting EvE players to distribute very unique ships in a fashion they deem right.

Finally something from the CSM. Yay. Now to see them go ignored...
Cierra Royce
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#320 - 2013-09-27 07:21:09 UTC
Cierra Royce wrote:
Solstice Project's Alt wrote:
Traedar wrote:
He doesn't even need to scam. He will make massive amounts of ISK if he is given many rare ships for free. The question is, how will he maximize his return?

I think a good question is, how much oversight will CCP give this?

Please engage your brain.

SOMER has, to this very moment, paid out 1,147,466,125,128,343 ISK.

Now, please try to use your brain for a few seconds and just IMAGINE
how much profit SOMER has made since they have started,
if that's the amount they PAID OUT !

And now explain why anybody there would actually bat an eye
about ships worth a mere drop in the ocean of what they must have gathered up so far.



Thank you.


Nobody cares how much Isk Somer claims to have paid out, as it is just as irrelevant as how much Isk Erotica1 has doubled (as honest as she may be) when it comes to getting CCP freebies and endorsement.

The big question that deserves an answer is why is CCP breaching the sandbox favouring this player run organisation by spawning them a set of ultra rare ships worth trillions of isk?

Followed by why they have chosen to say this about Somer:
CCP Navigator wrote:
"SOMER Blink have a history of being trustworthy and honoring every blink played without exception. With that level of trust we were looking at ways of expanding on that good will and allowing players to play for some very unique prizes in that trusted environment."


These are very specific claims and give way to questions that deserve an answer.

Have they audited every transaction Somer has performed?

During this audit did they check every recipient account to be sure none were shill accounts of one type or another?

Did CCP audit the out of game books of this organisation to rule out it being a sophisticated RMT operation?

Which other organisations have CCP audited/plan to audit and why?

What do other in game organisations have to do to gain the open favour/patronage of the Developers and be showered with incredibly valuable gifts worth 10s of thousands of real world dollars?


Reposting these questions here as they are germane to this debate.