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Why is CCP tring to Kill the industrial side of EVE ?
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Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#21 - 2013-08-07 03:21:42 UTC
Was expecting a whine about actual industry but was greeted with a manual labour whine, based on misunderstanding of actual changes at that. Roll
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#22 - 2013-08-07 04:15:43 UTC
Ludi Burek wrote:
Was expecting a whine about actual industry but was greeted with a manual labour whine, based on misunderstanding of actual changes at that. Roll


There is no misunderstanding. Mining Foreman links are only getting a temporary reprieve while the razor gang closely investigates the Orca and Rorqual. There are no doubts about it, the Rorqual is going to end up boosting in belts. Those of us who care about this are hoping for the link bonuses to move from the industrial core to the hull, so the Rorqual doesn't continue being the only command ship that is required to siege in order to provide its bonuses.

For the moment I am prodding the devs with "the right way" (ie: my way) at every opportunity.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2013-08-07 04:24:56 UTC
Gel Musana wrote:
Forcing on grid boosting is stupid. The booster is going to get killed on the spot unless you have a proper support fleet, so it becomes unusable for small groups and nobody will bother using boosting any more. I trained my alt for almost a year for boosting and now no use. Thank you very much. I think this is pure non-sense.

If there is a need to keep these ships outside a POS fine, then the price must come down big time. I will never spend 4b in a defenceless ship. Best think would be a major re-haul of industrial ships to make them hybrid PVP. Give a big tank, lots of guns and combat drones to industrials.

More risk = more ships blow up = more isk required = more plexes purchased = greed.

they plan on fixing the ships (I assume your 4bil reference is to the rorq). Thats why they got the current POS boosting exemption. If they actually make them usable on grid, then i wouldn't mind risking the isk. That's only after they are fixed of course.
Tobias Hareka
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-08-07 04:50:06 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Malissa Radort wrote:
CCP don't care about Industrials.
See they don't do something against Ghostcampers.
Linkage for you.


He isn't complaining about industrial ships or anything industrial related. He is complaining about AFK cloakers.
Andrew Indy
Cleaning Crew
#25 - 2013-08-07 05:58:08 UTC
Gel Musana wrote:
Forcing on grid boosting is stupid. The booster is going to get killed on the spot unless you have a proper support fleet, so it becomes unusable for small groups and nobody will bother using boosting any more. I trained my alt for almost a year for boosting and now no use. Thank you very much. I think this is pure non-sense.

If there is a need to keep these ships outside a POS fine, then the price must come down big time. I will never spend 4b in a defenceless ship. Best think would be a major re-haul of industrial ships to make them hybrid PVP. Give a big tank, lots of guns and combat drones to industrials.

More risk = more ships blow up = more isk required = more plexes purchased = greed.


More ships blown up = More ships made = More minerals required = Higher prices for minerals = Richer miners.

In small gang PVP there is less alpha on field so blabing Commands is not a huge issue. In fact you could just brick tank your Command ship and use it to draw agro while the rest of your fleets kills stuff. Large fleets are different since you can blap ships however both fleets will be in the same boat and as always the battle will turn into a who brought more ships or has the less ****** FC (or both) game .

On a side note I'm not sure why people are fixated on the idea that CCP does everything to make people buy Plex . There is a limited requirement for Plex, If you have an active account CCP is getting someones money to keep it active. There are a few things that fall out side of this (dual training and char transfers) however these are not mandatory so you can only blame yourself if you choose to use these features.

DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#26 - 2013-08-22 18:26:37 UTC  |  Edited by: DetKhord Saisio
Bowbndr wrote:
From what I have seen from the last few patches, and what I hear is coming from the next round of patching it sure looks like CCP has decided to put a target on the miners and their boosters.

First CCP made it worthless to upgrade a system for hidden belts by making hidden belts just another anomoly that anyone can just warp on in to. What was the point of that? I know CCP wants to encourage PVP, but the only thing that I can see that this change is made Mining in Null Sec 100 times more dangerous because now they don't even have to scan it down anymore. At lease before they had to push a scanning ship through and scan the sites down to get at the miners in them.

Now I hear CCP is taking aim at the boosters, now your going to force the boosting ships outside of the shields to boost. I suppose in the next patch you will have some new feature that allows PVPers to just warp to anyone in the system and kill miners at will?

My point here is Simple, Why dose CCP seem to want to put a target on the null sec miners?

Based on your comments, you may not know what a hidden belt is. Meh, also CCP seems to call asteroid clusters in anomalies hidden belts. The new ore anomalies (used to be cosmic signatures) and ice anomalies are not hidden belts. Nor are the old asteroid clusters in cosmic signatures hidden belts. A hidden belt is something else entirely.
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#27 - 2013-08-22 21:51:31 UTC
Marcus Harikari wrote:
all boosting should only be done from on-grid. how is it feasible that someone can "boost" a fleet from all the way across the solar system? BOLLOCKS!!!

you dont understand todays technology, how can you even try to comment on modern technology?

we have technology now that allows any ship (thats equipped), to see whats on everyones radar screen from within a certain distance. one ship can fire a missile which can be controlled by #2 ship thats headed at #3 ship which is disabled and cant power up.
these are destroyer level ships.
with capital level ships who have more computers and more power at their disposal, also who mount additional computers on their ship to do this with, should be able to boost a great deal further.

explain how implants can boost missile damage or the speed of your ship in general...anything is possible in time 3500 years from now.
Skill Training Online
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-08-22 22:57:08 UTC
My only hope is that when people criticize Industrialists, they are using hard numbers and facts to back up their arguments rather than just the fact that some of us are African Americans.

Thank You Obama!
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#29 - 2013-08-22 22:59:59 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
Marcus Harikari wrote:
all boosting should only be done from on-grid. how is it feasible that someone can "boost" a fleet from all the way across the solar system? BOLLOCKS!!!

you dont understand todays technology, how can you even try to comment on modern technology?

we have technology now that allows any ship (thats equipped), to see whats on everyones radar screen from within a certain distance. one ship can fire a missile which can be controlled by #2 ship thats headed at #3 ship which is disabled and cant power up.
these are destroyer level ships.
with capital level ships who have more computers and more power at their disposal, also who mount additional computers on their ship to do this with, should be able to boost a great deal further.

explain how implants can boost missile damage or the speed of your ship in general...anything is possible in time 3500 years from now.


Yet in eve the ships can't target more than 250km's!! OGB is just another inconsistancy that people are complaining over.

For the OP the industrials are getting revamped in a good way to give them more utiliy and flavour without making them a 'combat' ship. If you guys want to have 'escorts' then get corpies IN combat ships to escort you. All the ideas in the section of the forums can generally be achieved if they players put the time and effort into making them happen, stop asking CCP to make you little world easier. Shocked

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-08-23 00:22:10 UTC
A radio signal takes 8 minutes to travel 1AU (this is real data, not Eve nonsense) in the almost-vacuum of space.

If a command ship sits 10AU off a battlefield and all ships send it status reports, assuming it has super-fast command and control systems and can send out command data instantaneously, that command data has to travel back to the ships on the battlefield.

That whole process will take 160 minutes, or 2.67 hours. That data will be so out of date that the ships for which it was transmitted will no longer even be there.

This is illogical and nonsensical. There is no good reason to allow off-grid boosting.

Hot-dropping is a problem. There is another thread that offers a suggestion on how to improve this, which is to force hot-dropping to be a "pull" operation.

i.e. if you want to hot-drop a fleet into a combat site you are forced to commit a titan (60-100 billion isk) in order to "pull" them in.

That pretty much solves the miner-ganking-hotdrop problem because no amount of lulz are worth 60 billion of titan liability.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
#31 - 2013-08-23 07:00:09 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
A radio signal takes 8 minutes to travel 1AU (this is real data, not Eve nonsense) in the almost-vacuum of space.

If a command ship sits 10AU off a battlefield and all ships send it status reports, assuming it has super-fast command and control systems and can send out command data instantaneously, that command data has to travel back to the ships on the battlefield.

That whole process will take 160 minutes, or 2.67 hours. That data will be so out of date that the ships for which it was transmitted will no longer even be there.

This is illogical and nonsensical. There is no good reason to allow off-grid boosting.


Don't we have quantum comms in new eden? If not you could still send a signal through a ships warp core (particularly a capital sized warp core) using the curve of spacetime as the string between two cans, you could even encrypt it and use the nearest binary black hole ripples as a carrier wave.


Without knowing anything about it, making titans necessary for hot-drops sounds fun.

Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur. 
Mag's
Azn Empire
#32 - 2013-08-23 07:09:20 UTC
Tobias Hareka wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Malissa Radort wrote:
CCP don't care about Industrials.
See they don't do something against Ghostcampers.
Linkage for you.


He isn't complaining about industrial ships or anything industrial related. He is complaining about AFK cloakers.
I know, I had a long winded debate with them over 3 threads at the time I posted. This was merely a joke link pointing to industrial ships. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
suid0
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2013-08-23 07:13:15 UTC
Bowbndr wrote:
From what I have seen from the last few patches, and what I hear is coming from the next round of patching it sure looks like CCP has decided to put a target on the miners and their boosters.

First CCP made it worthless to upgrade a system for hidden belts by making hidden belts just another anomoly that anyone can just warp on in to. What was the point of that? I know CCP wants to encourage PVP, but the only thing that I can see that this change is made Mining in Null Sec 100 times more dangerous because now they don't even have to scan it down anymore. At lease before they had to push a scanning ship through and scan the sites down to get at the miners in them.

Now I hear CCP is taking aim at the boosters, now your going to force the boosting ships outside of the shields to boost. I suppose in the next patch you will have some new feature that allows PVPers to just warp to anyone in the system and kill miners at will?

My point here is Simple, Why dose CCP seem to want to put a target on the null sec miners?


So what you're saying is null sec is too dangerous and should be safe for you to mine in?

ShockedRollUgh

the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones  - Commander Ted
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-08-23 09:59:00 UTC
suid0 wrote:
Bowbndr wrote:
From what I have seen from the last few patches, and what I hear is coming from the next round of patching it sure looks like CCP has decided to put a target on the miners and their boosters.

First CCP made it worthless to upgrade a system for hidden belts by making hidden belts just another anomoly that anyone can just warp on in to. What was the point of that? I know CCP wants to encourage PVP, but the only thing that I can see that this change is made Mining in Null Sec 100 times more dangerous because now they don't even have to scan it down anymore. At lease before they had to push a scanning ship through and scan the sites down to get at the miners in them.

Now I hear CCP is taking aim at the boosters, now your going to force the boosting ships outside of the shields to boost. I suppose in the next patch you will have some new feature that allows PVPers to just warp to anyone in the system and kill miners at will?

My point here is Simple, Why dose CCP seem to want to put a target on the null sec miners?


So what you're saying is null sec is too dangerous and should be safe for you to mine in?

ShockedRollUgh


What, Null-sec isn't safe enough for miners? Shocked

I've spent months at mining in 0.0, haven't lost a single ship.. hum.. guess I must've done something wrong Ugh
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-08-23 10:09:38 UTC
You're being a little disingenuous in these posts fellas.

The guy was rightfully saying that he wants to be able to, and required to bring his rorqual to the mining field in order to get the benefit from it.

In order to do its job, the rorqual goes into industrial mode and is simply unable to warp off should local spike.

The rorqual's design (1000dps drone damage, huge tank) suggests that it is build for industry and pvp but currently the ever-present threat of a hot-drop prevents any rorqual pilot from using it in its intended role.

I believe that Eve will be a better game with on-grid boosting, but the hot-drop needs to be erased first.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
Mournful Conciousness
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2013-08-23 10:12:38 UTC
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Mournful Conciousness wrote:
A radio signal takes 8 minutes to travel 1AU (this is real data, not Eve nonsense) in the almost-vacuum of space.

If a command ship sits 10AU off a battlefield and all ships send it status reports, assuming it has super-fast command and control systems and can send out command data instantaneously, that command data has to travel back to the ships on the battlefield.

That whole process will take 160 minutes, or 2.67 hours. That data will be so out of date that the ships for which it was transmitted will no longer even be there.

This is illogical and nonsensical. There is no good reason to allow off-grid boosting.


Don't we have quantum comms in new eden? If not you could still send a signal through a ships warp core (particularly a capital sized warp core) using the curve of spacetime as the string between two cans, you could even encrypt it and use the nearest binary black hole ripples as a carrier wave.


Without knowing anything about it, making titans necessary for hot-drops sounds fun.


If we're sending a signal through the ship's warp core then presumably a warp scrambler should prevent you from getting gang link boosts and prevent you from seeing local or communicating on teamspeak?

Off-grid boosting is just silly and needs to go.

Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#37 - 2013-09-26 18:51:12 UTC
Bowbndr wrote:
Why does CCP seem to want to put a target on the null sec miners?
More likely CCP's intent is preventing the afk style of play. So, things like going afk at the pos for hours while fleets get boosts from rorqual/orca gang links. Pvp is fun and all, but honestly industrial professions need more ways to prevent death, not less.

And really, I think the issue is content. All the bored players need something to do aside from the same old thing. Oh great, I can do the same old level 4 mission? Blah!

CCP needs some new ideas to keep everybody interested and from causing eve to implode.
Lugues Slive
Diamond Light Industries
#38 - 2013-09-26 19:40:24 UTC
I have a different concern with OGB removal from Orca. I have my ship right in the belt where it should be, but our fleet typically spreads out over several belts to minimize fighting over rocks. With this change, we would need 1 Orca per belt or all miners huddled together fighting over scraps.
Oswaldos
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2013-09-26 19:41:03 UTC
Mournful Conciousness wrote:

Hot-dropping is a problem. There is another thread that offers a suggestion on how to improve this, which is to force hot-dropping to be a "pull" operation.

i.e. if you want to hot-drop a fleet into a combat site you are forced to commit a titan (60-100 billion isk) in order to "pull" them in.

That pretty much solves the miner-ganking-hotdrop problem because no amount of lulz are worth 60 billion of titan liability.



Only slightly related to the topic but this is a good idea needs to be done. It would also make BLOPs much more distinctive in their role. Or you could just have ships dock in carriers and supers and jump when they jump..

As to on grid only boosting.. I agree that it should happen but hot-drops, the industrial core. If your going to keep the boosting effect tied to the industrial core then give it a tank boost similar to dreads with the cap to support it.

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