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POS Shield and missile mechanics
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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-09-25 20:55:17 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

I'm not asking for it to be changed at all. Thats the point you are missing. All the argument I gave were to show why changing the current rule is a useless PITA that would most likely also require balance changes to compensate.

The POS shield works correctly. It prevent you from getting shot once you are inside of not, not from getting damaged. The locks breaking as soon as you cross teh field prevent any further missile from being shot at you. Everything that was already fired will continue to behave as per the regular rules. If you don;t want to be shot, get inside the POS shield before the shot is fired.


Well, see, I'm not asking for a change.

As you say how it should work, the pos shields did NOT work how they should.

You should not be able to be turned into a wreck inside a pos shield from an outside source.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#22 - 2013-09-25 21:08:05 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

I'm not asking for it to be changed at all. Thats the point you are missing. All the argument I gave were to show why changing the current rule is a useless PITA that would most likely also require balance changes to compensate.

The POS shield works correctly. It prevent you from getting shot once you are inside of not, not from getting damaged. The locks breaking as soon as you cross teh field prevent any further missile from being shot at you. Everything that was already fired will continue to behave as per the regular rules. If you don;t want to be shot, get inside the POS shield before the shot is fired.


Well, see, I'm not asking for a change.

As you say how it should work, the pos shields did NOT work how they should.

You should not be able to be turned into a wreck inside a pos shield from an outside source.

You are asking for a change.
Since I assume you also want guns not to be able to shoot through a POS shield to a target on the other side of the POS.... Since guns shouldn't be able to shoot though a POS shield either if missiles can't. Meaning you could use a POS as cover to stop you getting shot... which means asteroids should also work... meaning another ship could take fire for you.

Or.....

We could assume that you had a mistaken idea about how POS shields work and they don't physically stop every type of object, instead they are meant to work by breaking target locks.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2013-09-25 21:16:29 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:

I'm not asking for it to be changed at all. Thats the point you are missing. All the argument I gave were to show why changing the current rule is a useless PITA that would most likely also require balance changes to compensate.

The POS shield works correctly. It prevent you from getting shot once you are inside of not, not from getting damaged. The locks breaking as soon as you cross teh field prevent any further missile from being shot at you. Everything that was already fired will continue to behave as per the regular rules. If you don;t want to be shot, get inside the POS shield before the shot is fired.


Well, see, I'm not asking for a change.

As you say how it should work, the pos shields did NOT work how they should.

You should not be able to be turned into a wreck inside a pos shield from an outside source.

You are asking for a change.
Since I assume you also want guns not to be able to shoot through a POS shield to a target on the other side of the POS.... Since guns shouldn't be able to shoot though a POS shield either if missiles can't. Meaning you could use a POS as cover to stop you getting shot... which means asteroids should also work... meaning another ship could take fire for you.

Or.....

We could assume that you had a mistaken idea about how POS shields work and they don't physically stop every type of object, instead they are meant to work by breaking target locks.

And all of the above issues will remain exactly as they are until Tessellation is introduced to the game to efficiently handle the necessary calculations. Until then, the mechanics are working as intended (or, if you prefer, as necessary for the game to function on the scale that it does).

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-09-25 21:32:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:

You are asking for a change.
Since I assume you also want guns not to be able to shoot through a POS shield to a target on the other side of the POS.... Since guns shouldn't be able to shoot though a POS shield either if missiles can't. Meaning you could use a POS as cover to stop you getting shot... which means asteroids should also work... meaning another ship could take fire for you.

Or.....

We could assume that you had a mistaken idea about how POS shields work and they don't physically stop every type of object, instead they are meant to work by breaking target locks.



Uh.. no? I am not asking for a change. If they worked just as you said, then smartbombs, fire and forget missiles and bomb launchers would work based on what you just said.

My "mistaken" idea, is that a forcefield of the pos blocks all incoming damage. Meaning missiles, lasers, projectiles, bombs, cannot travel through the shield.

If I'm wrong, so be it. But since pos shields are passworded, not allowing signals or unathorized ships but allowing a missile through sounds odd.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mawderator
ElitistOps
Snuffed Out
#25 - 2013-09-25 21:53:21 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Perhaps you should demand CCP remove missiles from the game too?


I'm hoping the irony of this isn't lost upon you.
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2013-09-25 21:54:45 UTC
ITT: -FA- scrublord caught by game mechanics totally unaware in complete and utter non-shocker.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#27 - 2013-09-25 23:01:08 UTC
It's a bit odd, but basically the ship loses the lock when you are in the POS shield (the target is "invulnerable") but the missiles seem to not care, and can hit you.

It's just rather hilarious that you can shoot the tower, but not something right next to the tower. Instead of shooting the shield, somehow the missile has to go through the shield to hit the tower (bullets, lasers etc etc )

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Arkale Dark
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#28 - 2013-09-25 23:59:48 UTC
Missiles knew the POS password obviously. Also totally not mad about the Loki Blink
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen
#29 - 2013-09-26 00:04:23 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Perhaps you should demand CCP remove missiles from the game too?


That's essentially what this post is, as if they weren't nerfed enough already.
grrlet
Leper Outcast Unclean
#30 - 2013-09-26 00:19:49 UTC
The missiles should blow up when they hit the POS shield (if their intended target is on the inside).

Random FYI: Missiles do zero damage if the person who shoots them dies before they hit the target.
Addemar
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#31 - 2013-09-26 13:32:23 UTC
Am I reading this correctly? Our tiny little alliance has already got some members of the mighty CFC crying to CCP because of a game mechanic that has been around way before the drake/missles got nerfed all to hell?

I guess all I can say is........

Sorry We're in Your Space, Eh
The Fierce Deity
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#32 - 2013-09-26 14:40:40 UTC  |  Edited by: The Fierce Deity
Xolve wrote:
ITT: -FA- scrublord caught by game mechanics totally unaware in complete and utter non-shocker.


I would appreciate it if you met me before calling me a scrub; this is only one loss because of a mistake i made and admit to, much like the revenant loss PL suffered.

Addemar wrote:
Am I reading this correctly? Our tiny little alliance has already got some members of the mighty CFC crying to CCP because of a game mechanic that has been around way before the drake/missiles got nerfed all to hell?

I guess all I can say is........

Sorry We're in Your Space, Eh



Please, lets not turn this political, I merely raised a discussion so people can critically think about a mechanic in the game which I personally did not know about.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-09-26 14:45:35 UTC
The Fierce Deity wrote:

For editing the mechanics
1. You entered a "safe area" or invulnerable state before the damage was processed.

you should start from: weapon was activated BEFORE you entered safe area.
guns - they applied damage right at the moment of activation.
missiles - they apply damage after some time but they NEED to be activated BEFORE you lost your lock on target.
drones and bombs - ... well.. they are failed Shocked

Side question: what about FoF missiles? Can they hurt you if you are inside FF?

The Fierce Deity wrote:

2. It's only fair if other weapon systems get this also like drones (ignore the face they have to target something for this topic) and bombs

You can't do the same to guns because they apply damage right on moment of weapon activation. So this change would buff guns and nerf all other weapon systems.

The Fierce Deity wrote:

4. With current logic you should still get damage even if you dock, warp, mjd, or jump - but that's not the case. (granted warping, jumping, and micro jumping will put you out of range in most cases)

sounds funny but again: when we speak about ACTIVATION time (and not about time of applying damage) missiles SHOULD damage you if you docked/warped/jumped/whatever AFTER missiles were launched Lol like this happens with guns (weapon activated -> damage applied).

The Fierce Deity wrote:
5. Missiles should be destroyed upon impact of the force field

AFAIK you can shoot through FF if you can lock your target (let's say you are both out of FF but FF is between you and your target). So nope, missiles should pass FF without any impact on FF or structures/ships inside of it like it do charges of guns and lasers

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Addemar
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#34 - 2013-09-26 16:00:45 UTC
The Fierce Deity wrote:
Xolve wrote:
ITT: -FA- scrublord caught by game mechanics totally unaware in complete and utter non-shocker.


I would appreciate it if you met me before calling me a scrub; this is only one loss because of a mistake i made and admit to, much like the revenant loss PL suffered.

Addemar wrote:
Am I reading this correctly? Our tiny little alliance has already got some members of the mighty CFC crying to CCP because of a game mechanic that has been around way before the drake/missiles got nerfed all to hell?

I guess all I can say is........

Sorry We're in Your Space, Eh



Please, lets not turn this political, I merely raised a discussion so people can critically think about a mechanic in the game which I personally did not know about.



Only because after screaming in local how we were going to be reported for using a "exploit" and then CCP telling you basicaly, no your wrong. This is the only method you have left to try and drum up support for you losing your boosting loki because you were alt-tabed away thinking you were safe orbiting a POS.



IF this mechanic was fairly new to EVE then i can understand your reasoning but its not. Its been around for quite some time. Changing it will only nerf missles even more.

A lack of understanding of the game mechanic's on your part does not constitute a reason for CCP make a change on there part.

You might was well chaulk it up as a learning experience and find a tactic to counter it next time. Its the EVE way.
The Fierce Deity
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#35 - 2013-09-26 16:46:31 UTC
Addemar wrote:
The Fierce Deity wrote:
Xolve wrote:
ITT: -FA- scrublord caught by game mechanics totally unaware in complete and utter non-shocker.


I would appreciate it if you met me before calling me a scrub; this is only one loss because of a mistake i made and admit to, much like the revenant loss PL suffered.

Addemar wrote:
Am I reading this correctly? Our tiny little alliance has already got some members of the mighty CFC crying to CCP because of a game mechanic that has been around way before the drake/missiles got nerfed all to hell?

I guess all I can say is........

Sorry We're in Your Space, Eh



Please, lets not turn this political, I merely raised a discussion so people can critically think about a mechanic in the game which I personally did not know about.



Only because after screaming in local how we were going to be reported for using a "exploit" and then CCP telling you basicaly, no your wrong. This is the only method you have left to try and drum up support for you losing your boosting loki because you were alt-tabed away thinking you were safe orbiting a POS.



IF this mechanic was fairly new to EVE then i can understand your reasoning but its not. Its been around for quite some time. Changing it will only nerf missles even more.

A lack of understanding of the game mechanic's on your part does not constitute a reason for CCP make a change on there part.

You might was well chaulk it up as a learning experience and find a tactic to counter it next time. Its the EVE way.


Again, I will state i never new about this "mechanic" and believed it was an exploit at the time as my understanding of the mechanics should have allowed be to survive. But i guess it doesn't matter since you guys are so upset that you abandoned the alliance you were in (so much for loyalty and 'test is awesome everyone else sucks') and camp the space you lost be cause you are all so distraught about it and cant move on.

wait, let me guess "we didn't want that space anyways!"

If you instantly insult someone based on who they are associated be it by name, flag, or otherwise then you are no better then racists and hypocrites. All I had asked in this forum thread was a discussion on mechanics which i did not know about as this is my first time experiencing this since when i fight its usually a real fit and not a cov ops hot drop which has a 99% chance of winning, i personally like the fights where i have to actually try to win.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#36 - 2013-09-26 17:49:10 UTC
I was helping siege a POS when I was new years ago. Was using a torp Raven when the torps could still go hundreds of KMs. I was shooting a Gallente BS. He went inside the shields, my torps were still hitting him and causing damage. I stopped firing because I thought I would get banned for using an exploit. Lol Would have killed that sucker too if I hadn't stopped. Was down to 1/3 hull. Sad This was back in 2006, so that issue has been around for a while.
Addemar
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#37 - 2013-09-26 18:05:36 UTC
The Fierce Deity wrote:
Addemar wrote:
The Fierce Deity wrote:
Xolve wrote:
ITT: -FA- scrublord caught by game mechanics totally unaware in complete and utter non-shocker.


I would appreciate it if you met me before calling me a scrub; this is only one loss because of a mistake i made and admit to, much like the revenant loss PL suffered.

Addemar wrote:
Am I reading this correctly? Our tiny little alliance has already got some members of the mighty CFC crying to CCP because of a game mechanic that has been around way before the drake/missiles got nerfed all to hell?

I guess all I can say is........

Sorry We're in Your Space, Eh



Please, lets not turn this political, I merely raised a discussion so people can critically think about a mechanic in the game which I personally did not know about.



Only because after screaming in local how we were going to be reported for using a "exploit" and then CCP telling you basicaly, no your wrong. This is the only method you have left to try and drum up support for you losing your boosting loki because you were alt-tabed away thinking you were safe orbiting a POS.



IF this mechanic was fairly new to EVE then i can understand your reasoning but its not. Its been around for quite some time. Changing it will only nerf missles even more.

A lack of understanding of the game mechanic's on your part does not constitute a reason for CCP make a change on there part.

You might was well chaulk it up as a learning experience and find a tactic to counter it next time. Its the EVE way.


Again, I will state i never new about this "mechanic" and believed it was an exploit at the time as my understanding of the mechanics should have allowed be to survive. But i guess it doesn't matter since you guys are so upset that you abandoned the alliance you were in (so much for loyalty and 'test is awesome everyone else sucks') and camp the space you lost be cause you are all so distraught about it and cant move on.

wait, let me guess "we didn't want that space anyways!"

If you instantly insult someone based on who they are associated be it by name, flag, or otherwise then you are no better then racists and hypocrites. All I had asked in this forum thread was a discussion on mechanics which i did not know about as this is my first time experiencing this since when i fight its usually a real fit and not a cov ops hot drop which has a 99% chance of winning, i personally like the fights where i have to actually try to win.



Bragging about taking fountain even though all you did was ride the coat tales of another alliance..... check
Crying about how we should just leave and let you be in ratting peace...... check
Trying to apply race card.......check
Complain about a gorilla warfare tactics and call it not "real fighting" versus only being able to join another alliances fleets and provide mass numbers ...... check

Let me help you out. This was being done to TEST as well before we ended up joining them. And we will continue to do it while you are here. (I hear you guys are not handling it very well. Says a lot about the status of your alliance since the "bad at EVE" TEST alliance was able to handle fountain core for years.)
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