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Counter destroyers?
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Matilda Cox
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-24 19:46:53 UTC
We got -10 players ganking in x system atm.
they fly cheap destroyers. I was wondering would it make sence to have a counter ship stashed in a orca?
what ship would this be? and how fast could i blow up a destroyer?
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-24 20:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Donbe Scurred
Where is x system?
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-09-24 23:38:29 UTC
I recommend buying a permit. Contact your local gankers. Alternatively you can send me 10mil isk per pilot for a New Order mining permit. They are good for one year and valid throughout hisec. See http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html for more details.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#4 - 2013-09-24 23:43:25 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I recommend buying a permit. Contact your local gankers. Alternatively you can send me 10mil isk per pilot for a New Order mining permit. They are good for one year and valid throughout hisec. See http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html for more details.


I heartily endorse this.

Think about it, folks. 10 million isk is a lot less than you will spend even buying a ship to fight us with, not to mention the time spent not mining while doing so.

And for a whole year? That's about 28,000 isk per day. Not a miner alive who can't understand that the math of that is good business. 
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
loyalanon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#5 - 2013-09-25 00:21:12 UTC  |  Edited by: loyalanon
lul
Paul Tsukaya
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-09-25 00:36:22 UTC
Ravens are excellent at countering destroyers. You might have difficulty locking them quickly though. This is because you have your safety set to "green." If you set your safety to "red" then it increases your lock speed.
Andracin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-09-25 00:38:55 UTC
Since it's -10 players ganking and you have an orca, Im assuming your a high sec miner. If that is the case I am very well experienced in this activity. The answer to your question is almost any ship larger than a noob ship can kill a gank fit catalyst or thrasher.

If your expecting to stop a gank-in-progress, forget it. Once we land on your face with over-heated neutron blasters you will probably not even be able to switch ships fast enough to kill anything before CONCORD and the faction police show up and end us anyway. Best case sceneario you manage to whore on a couple kills before we die. If anything its a "moral" victory for you, but your miner is probably dead. Alignment, situational awareness and not going AFK are your best defense.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2013-09-25 04:08:34 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I recommend buying a permit. Contact your local gankers. Alternatively you can send me 10mil isk per pilot for a New Order mining permit. They are good for one year and valid throughout hisec. See http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html for more details.


Comply. Fight. Run, or die. The permit route isn't actually that unreasonble IMO... 10 mil for a year is pretty cheap really.
Or you can fight em. They're gonna splode no matter what, they know this and are comfortable with it. Your goal if fighting them is to deny them their prize. (That would be you... on fire) To do this you're going to have to be constantly alert and have counters already in place for them before they arrive. It's difficult, but not impossible. Might try Ewar frigs?
Run. Always an option. Move to somewhere they are not actively operating and pursue your rock nibbling there.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
7'62 SKS
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-09-25 04:52:33 UTC  |  Edited by: 7'62 SKS
[Griffin, Hypnos Countercat]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

Super cheap, low skill, locks a catalyst in 2.5 seconds or so, each jammer has about a 8 in 11 chance of jamming one catalyst for 20 seconds, depending on skills. This could remove 4 catalysts from the equation far sooner than CONCORD will in a 0.5 system. One or two of these orbiting the miners could really put a kink in the DPS...if pilot reaction time is reasonable. Once a catalyst is locked and jammed, he will be completely disabled until CONCORD can arrive, take over jamming, and destroy the cat.
Jove Death
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-09-25 07:51:48 UTC
Move to another systems Big smile

Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek.
Goretorium
Doomheim
#11 - 2013-09-25 08:37:19 UTC
Logi drones on your orca always running on your miner is a good deterrant. Logi in the high and keeping them locked also helps since the cap link booster is not really needed.

This PvP is fueled by Kraken Rum.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#12 - 2013-09-25 11:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
I recommend buying a permit. Contact your local gankers. Alternatively you can send me 10mil isk per pilot for a New Order mining permit. They are good for one year and valid throughout hisec. See http://www.minerbumping.com/p/the-code.html for more details.

HAHAHA lols...
We would not care at all what permit you hold dude,...

Edit: Your Orca just would get ganked in the process...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#13 - 2013-09-25 12:09:05 UTC
7'62 SKS wrote:
[Griffin, Hypnos Countercat]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

Super cheap, low skill, locks a catalyst in 2.5 seconds or so, each jammer has about a 8 in 11 chance of jamming one catalyst for 20 seconds, depending on skills. This could remove 4 catalysts from the equation far sooner than CONCORD will in a 0.5 system. One or two of these orbiting the miners could really put a kink in the DPS...if pilot reaction time is reasonable. Once a catalyst is locked and jammed, he will be completely disabled until CONCORD can arrive, take over jamming, and destroy the cat.


This.
Conflict causes evolution. This is an example of adaptation in the face of adversity. I've never understood why miners don't either provide their own security or hire it on. Yes, I know that guarding miners is boring, so is mining... working in the security industry IRL I know all too well how boring this kind of job can be. It's boring until it's not, the real problem is that it's often peaceful for so long that you tend to let your guard down. However, payment can be incentive to remain alert... hire some mercs to guard you while you mine or to escort your haul to the trade hub. The mechanisms are in place, just most folks don't take advantage of the tools that are available to them. Hell, give the Kitsune a reason to exist Cool
You see examples of this all over in scifi movies and shows, why wouldn't it be reasonable as well in EVE? If you plan a mining op, it just strikes me as careless as to not provide defensive cover for your "defenseless" miners... just my two ISK worth.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-09-25 13:05:25 UTC
Paul Tsukaya wrote:
Ravens are excellent at countering destroyers. You might have difficulty locking them quickly though. This is because you have your safety set to "green." If you set your safety to "red" then it increases your lock speed.


I spit my coffee out on my keys laughing.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-09-25 13:08:38 UTC
7'62 SKS wrote:
[Griffin, Hypnos Countercat]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

Super cheap, low skill, locks a catalyst in 2.5 seconds or so, each jammer has about a 8 in 11 chance of jamming one catalyst for 20 seconds, depending on skills. This could remove 4 catalysts from the equation far sooner than CONCORD will in a 0.5 system. One or two of these orbiting the miners could really put a kink in the DPS...if pilot reaction time is reasonable. Once a catalyst is locked and jammed, he will be completely disabled until CONCORD can arrive, take over jamming, and destroy the cat.


I have never understood why more people dont use ECM to protect against gankers.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#16 - 2013-09-25 13:32:28 UTC
Meh.

Best way to counter gank Cats is to Not. Be. There. When. They. Land.

IE......warp off when you see them in local.

Otherwise, they only real deterrent I know of is having a mining dreadnought equipped with t2 mining lasers......:)

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#17 - 2013-09-25 13:34:08 UTC
Leto Thule wrote:
I have never understood why more people dont use ECM to protect against gankers.


Because they AFK silly!!!

Also, wouldn't work, the Griffin would get popped first....just means you have to spend an extra gank Cat to nail the miner.

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
7'62 SKS
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-09-25 13:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: 7'62 SKS
Mike Adoulin wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
I have never understood why more people dont use ECM to protect against gankers.


Because they AFK silly!!!

Also, wouldn't work, the Griffin would get popped first....just means you have to spend an extra gank Cat to nail the miner.


I thought about that, but I disagree. The Griffin can orbit at 40-50km from whatever they are protecting. Landing on top of them within blaster range would be quite a feat. Anything else just gets them jammed out, even if they manage to land within scram range. If they do manage to get good at it, just replace one jam with a MWD....or....replace the Griffins with good ol' Blackbirds orbiting at 100km with a SeBo w/scan res and a MWD. Good luck landing on and popping one of those with a Catalyst.

[Griffin, Countercat with MWD]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

^^ It can run the MWD cap stable and move at around 2500m/s around the anticipated target. That's about the same speed as a Catalyst with OH'd MWD which would have trouble catching it even if it just left its 50km orbit up. If the Griffin has the presence of mind to OH the mid rack, forget it, he'll never get caught by a Cat. And he'll have an extra point of ECM strength per jam too.

As for being AFK....this kinda works for them too. The neutral scout will report back 1 or 2 Griffins orbiting the miners. So the gankers would just pick someone else to go after. Why bring 4-8 more cats than needed for a target when you can find a softer target next door? It's the usual security model: You don't have to be invulnerable, just less vulnerable than other targets, to persuade the attacker to choose them.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#19 - 2013-09-25 14:33:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Matilda Cox wrote:
We got -10 players ganking in x system atm.
they fly cheap destroyers. I was wondering would it make sence to have a counter ship stashed in a orca?
what ship would this be? and how fast could i blow up a destroyer?


Destroyers are glass cannon. You can pop them with almost anything. The problem is that they land fast, lock fast, and fire before you can organize a response... By which time Concord is on the scene, mucking things up. Stashing a counter-attack ship in an Orca is probably going to be much too slow a response - you've got just seconds to respond.

Your best bet is to Stay Alert and Aware, watch local, check your intelligence channels, and be prepared to react (Run!) when the Dessies show up on short d-scan. Alternatively, tank up and prepare to bear the brunt of the Destroyer's Alpha Strike. If you can stay alive 17 seconds or so, you're in the clear.

loyalanon wrote:
I love the new order, they are so amateurish its funny

Not everyone can crank out your numbers. OTOH, they're having fun...whcih means they're doing EVE right.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#20 - 2013-09-25 14:44:52 UTC
7'62 SKS wrote:
[Griffin, Hypnos Countercat]
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I
'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I

'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I

[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Small Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
[empty rig slot]

Super cheap, low skill, locks a catalyst in 2.5 seconds or so, each jammer has about a 8 in 11 chance of jamming one catalyst for 20 seconds, depending on skills. This could remove 4 catalysts from the equation far sooner than CONCORD will in a 0.5 system. One or two of these orbiting the miners could really put a kink in the DPS...if pilot reaction time is reasonable. Once a catalyst is locked and jammed, he will be completely disabled until CONCORD can arrive, take over jamming, and destroy the cat.

I can vouch for the general efficacy of this fit. I flew a similar fit* in last Sunday's Bomber's Bar Sunday Special, and can confirm that a first-time ECM pilot can use this fit effectively and with ease. It makes whoring on Concord KMs easy, too. Blink

(Only difference is that I was fit for Rainbow Jamming, and had some token DPS as well)

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

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