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Crime & Punishment

 
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Thieving monkeys!!!!
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Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-09-24 16:16:52 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Anya Klibor wrote:
Came in expecting a thread about Thieving Monkey, left wondering how I get shares of Holey's corp.

Came in expecting more anya killboar rubbish, left satisfied


Why you gots to be so mad, Holey? Are people done talking about their feelings with you?

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Dazz Riiiiiiight
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-09-24 16:46:04 UTC
Anya Klibor wrote:
HoleySheet1 wrote:
Anya Klibor wrote:
Came in expecting a thread about Thieving Monkey, left wondering how I get shares of Holey's corp.

Came in expecting more anya killboar rubbish, left satisfied


Why you gots to be so mad, Holey? Are people done talking about their feelings with you?




you forgot "and stuff."..
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#63 - 2013-09-24 17:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
+1 to OP

Have wrecks auto-abandon after 5-10 minutes, but make it a suspect offense to salvage an owned wreck prior to that time elapsing.

Today a ninja salvager can avoid a looting suspect flag entirely by salvaging a wreck that is still owned, this is game mechanic fail. How does it make sense someone cannot 'loot' without going suspect, yet can salvage for the exact same end result and not go suspect? Stupid.

There should be possible consequences to looting and salvaging owned wrecks, while still allowing people to salvage abandonded wrecks; the key is to auto-abandon wrecks after a 'reasonable' time period. i.e. 5-10 mins.

F

Would you like to know more?
Istyn
Freight Club
#64 - 2013-09-24 18:17:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Istyn
Per CCP Mitnal:
CCP Mitnal wrote:
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
GM Faolchu wrote:
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
GM Ytterbium wrote:
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
CCP Prism X wrote:
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
CCP Incognito wrote:
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.


tl;dr nope.

edit: now that I think about it, what on earth are you doing that you care so much about salvage?
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#65 - 2013-09-24 18:34:28 UTC
WHOA, SOMEONE DOES THEIR HOMEWORK.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-09-24 19:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Istyn wrote:

...
tl;dr nope.

edit: now that I think about it, what on earth are you doing that you care so much about salvage?


The fact CCP (and you) have so many salvage-rationalizing quotes at the ready proves this remains a contentious issue, and CCP have NOT dealt with it properly. :) In short, if wrecks are public, why does a suspect flag result when you take from them?

Hmmmmm....boggles the mind doesn't it...guess they aren't so public after all, and CCP doesn't even realize the stupidity of their logic tree on this one...

Take from an owned wreck, suspect flag.
Salvage from it, no suspect flag. Why? Just because CCP wants a 'salvage career'? STUPID.

The core problem is people who skill and learn pvp work hard to get kills, then get screwed without recourse by a system that allows a pve scrub with a salvager to bypass the wreck looting suspect mechanic to jack their hard-earned drops...

Sure someone should be able to salvage from an owned wreck if they choose to, but not without at least a suspect flag resulting and a chance for the wreck owner to get player-driven retribution at their impudence...THAT's how EvE should be.

CCP can totally support the 'salvage career' in a common sense way with timed-expiry of wreck ownership.

Thats balance. Thats fairness. Sadly, CCP is all about carebear love these days, and frak the pvp'er...

Would you like to know more?
Istyn
Freight Club
#67 - 2013-09-24 19:35:38 UTC
This remains a contentious issue with bears.

I seriously have no idea what you are doing that makes you care about your salvage so much.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#68 - 2013-09-24 19:42:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Istyn wrote:
This remains a contentious issue with bears.

I seriously have no idea what you are doing that makes you care about your salvage so much.


Dude, isn't it obvious?

For example...

Person A is in a brawl with Person B and Person C.

Person A pops Person B who has a 500 million isk officer module drop in the wreck. But while he is finishing the engagement with Person C, some PVE scrub who is nearby with a salvager grabs that officer drop from Person B's wreck without even going suspect (just because he used a salvager instead of looting directly) and goes his merry way.

The guy who got the kill and earned that valuable drop gets screwed, without recourse against the guy that stole his drop. All because CCP says looting equals theft, but salvager module equals not theft -- its (wait for it)...a career...

Ooooooooo....

Again, I am totally ok with auto-turning wrecks abandoned after a short period, but to have a game mechanic that allows someone to effectively steal without suspect flag is simply horseshit. This is a bad mechanic, and CCP should feel very bad about continuing to rationalize it.

Would you like to know more?
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#69 - 2013-09-24 20:36:35 UTC
I would like to thank the support this page has gathered. For some, the acquisition of loot is their income. Eve is becoming more of a pay-to-play game than it was in the past when plexes were half the cost they are now.
The radar and mag sites seem to have been nerfed and don't generate as much income which is a real pain in the butt. (low sec)
The 4/10 nerf on tengus has made low level plexing much harder while allowing any chimpanzee to scan down a site...I don't understand this. Running missions and incursions for hours for chump change only makes sense for the standings increase.
Fear not, many of us still make tons of isk off loot, I'm sick of pve anyhow...we just need the dis-reputable loot thieves punished.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Istyn
Freight Club
#70 - 2013-09-24 21:34:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Istyn
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:


Person A pops Person B who has a 500 million isk officer module drop in the wreck. But while he is finishing the engagement with Person C, some PVE scrub who is nearby with a salvager grabs that officer drop from Person B's wreck without even going suspect (just because he used a salvager instead of looting directly) and goes his merry way.


That isn't how it works at all. I've no idea why you think it is but just wat.

Edit to explain it instead:

A salvager only salvages. It doesn't do anything to loot, it just effectively creates salvage (which is worthless) in the cargohold of the salvager while turning the wreck into a cargo can.

I can only presume that you are having your loot stolen by your corp/fleet mates as there's no way to loot without going suspect without being legally allowed to by being part of the fleet that killed the guy/a corpmate if not in an NPC corp/the wreck is blue, etc.

Your problems have absolutely nothing to do with salvaging, you should learn the game mechanics.

edit 2: There's also the possibility that you got hit by a bug that was only recently fixed, were the high value items that disappeared after a salvager in plastic wraps (which are still broken AFAIK) or over 27,500k m3 in size?
Paul Tsukaya
Doomheim
#71 - 2013-09-25 17:35:44 UTC
You could always join a nullsec corp.

If you kill stuff that's in a bubble, then loot thieves aren't getting into that bubble, and if they get in they certainly aren't getting out.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#72 - 2013-09-25 23:16:35 UTC
The funniest part of this thread is the people stealing his loot are the alts of people in his alliance. I know because I'm one of them...
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#73 - 2013-09-27 20:56:29 UTC
d'oh!

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Don Purple
Snuggle Society
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#74 - 2013-09-28 08:01:22 UTC
Springe wrote:
A dock/jump timer would be great, but then the gankers would have to deal with it too, so be careful what you wish for.


I usually sit in system in a safe spot and chat till my criminal timer is gone anyways so I still embrace this idea

I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
Big Lynx
#75 - 2013-09-28 11:00:19 UTC
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
The funniest part of this thread is the people stealing his loot are the alts of people in his alliance. I know because I'm one of them...


Lelz
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#76 - 2013-10-17 01:57:28 UTC  |  Edited by: HoleySheet1
enjoy! X
Loot thieving needs a counter or some such to prevent rightful ownership re-appropriation. GM's dont speak for the comunity.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#77 - 2013-10-17 02:11:45 UTC
Securing loot is a PVP activity, and so I am not surprised HoleySheet fails so badly at it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#78 - 2013-10-17 02:44:23 UTC
If I fail at PVP, then you need to start mining.
You :
http://drkx.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_ext_id=91738546
Me :
http://drkx.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=64082
I would recommend backing up what you say.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#79 - 2013-10-17 04:37:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
HoleySheet1 wrote:
..its about getting what you deserve...


There's your problem - a feeling of entitlement in a game that has no such aspect outside of a free rookie ship.

Everything needs to be earned, including the loot after the fight.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#80 - 2013-10-17 06:49:53 UTC

It appears that contrary to some initial statements that Holey does indeed value the loot more than the thieving monkeys. However, since this is the 100th thread I have read today, I'd like to offer the OP a special game tomorrow in-game. He will be able to 5x the loot he still has and much more. If he decides to play, I will keep everyone posted.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.