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Crime & Punishment

 
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WARNING: FAILED RANSOM DEAL

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Mike Adoulin
Happys Happy Hamster Hunting Club
#61 - 2013-09-20 14:10:06 UTC
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:
Those individuals tried to ransom me once. But then the rest of the fleet arrived.



And then the magic happened......Bear

Everything in EVE is a trap.

And if it isn't, it's your job to make it a trap...:)

You want to know what immorality in EVE Online looks like? Look no further than Ripard "Jester" Teg.

Chribba is the Chuck Norris of EVE.
Shey Nabali
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#62 - 2013-09-20 18:44:43 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
unidenify wrote:
I am sure it is easier to make list of all pirate who honor ransom.

I've got that list somewhere...
Oh here it is:
Quote:


But yeah, never pay ransoms. Just give them the finger and burn away. If you die, you die. If you are lucky (or not in a bubble), you get to keep your pod.

I have to object there....I know quite a few entities who will always honor a payed ransom. Especially the well known gate camp groups tend to earn a lot of money with that.
I personally know of "the united", quite a few guys in shadow Cartel, Heretics and TunDraGon of course!
I´d like to link this thread.
Individuals as well es corp/alliances that honor ransom are listed here.



I will confirm that Shadow Cartel does, indeed, honor ransoms on the rare occasion that they are offered. It's simply not in our own best-interest to screw with people like that. If a shadow cartel member offers to ransom you, and then betrays it, you can contact any member of alliance or corp leadership for restitution.

Alot of other groups will do the same thing.
Vecor Quel
No Blue Goat Trading
#63 - 2013-09-20 19:38:29 UTC
My buddy and I had a similar experience with this group. My lesson learned? -Don't try to pvp in a BC when you don't know what you're doing. -Don't pay ransoms. Blow your **** up yourself if they're pussyfooting around trying to get more money from you. -Don't trust eve players.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-09-20 20:21:24 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
unidenify wrote:
I am sure it is easier to make list of all pirate who honor ransom.

I've got that list somewhere...
Oh here it is:
Quote:


But yeah, never pay ransoms. Just give them the finger and burn away. If you die, you die. If you are lucky (or not in a bubble), you get to keep your pod.


lots of people honour ransoms. I was once looting sites in a WH when they blocked the exit with a heavy dictor plus dps and then started scanning me down. i stupidly hadn't fit a cloak on my salvage destroyer and got chased from safe to safe for the next 2 hours. eventually i started chatting in local and worked out a payment for leaving. I paid. They dropped the bubble and i left. If they had me pointed however i wouldn't have bothered trying to pay a ransom.
Make a judgement and make a choice. People might honour it or they might not. There are lists of people that honour them if u look. If i accepted a ransom i would honour it but usually i prefer the KM so don't even discuss it.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#65 - 2013-09-20 23:29:40 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
BoSau Hotim wrote:
Teinyhr wrote:
Well, this thread shows that the community has changed, and I'm not sure it's for the better. At least some 3-4 years ago ransoms were (usually, obviously not always) honoured and this kind of thread would of gotten much more support from actual pirates chiming in that not honouring ransoms hurts their playstyle. But I suppose "true pirates" are a dying breed as people seem to be only interested in getting killmails at any cost.

Now it's mostly "hurpadurp honour in eve LOL?" Really don't like this change in attitude.



I think it's more hurpadurp "true pirates".

I think true pirates are the ones who don't honour a ransom. I have to think of a different name for the ones that honour a ransom... Kinda-sorta pirates... Wannabe pirate... hurpadurp pirate...

says security status 4.0



Hello, I never called myself a pirate. Pirate

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#66 - 2013-09-20 23:46:52 UTC  |  Edited by: BoSau Hotim
Axirillon Grinder wrote:
IMHO, this has gone a little off topic, this went towards the discussion if ransoms are part of piracy, to discuss that you'd have to weigh the benefits of ransoming over destroying, by doing both you will per definition prevent people in believing in ransoms, which in turn is a decent alternative due to the fact of random drops may not be as much worth as the ship itself, the simple point is that from my experience I will and have been warning people never ever to pay ransoms, nor comply to requests for ransoms because they will not be honored,

True piracy is a profession and should be regarded as that, the 2 ways gaining ISK like that would be either ransoming or destroying and looting, the first should be a far more reliable way to make income however is based on trust, my trust in ransoming has taken a severe hit and I will rather opt for destruction or even self destruct my ship next time I get in such a situation. That is the main point of this thread, raise awareness that there is a risk that if you are opted for ransom it will not be honored, I myself always stick with agreements I make and I know there are others out there that do so aswell, but in the end it boils down to the simple fact that looting wrecks is less stable and lucrative than succesfull ransoming, people like I encountered will have a huge negative impact on people that make ransoms their main way of income.

- Axi



I enjoy our attempts of determining what a pirate can or can't do, and if they don't fit our idea of that profession then they are wrong. Honestly - if you find the pirate code and then quote the part that says you may either:

A. Ask for money and if they give it let them go
B. Ask for money and if they refuse blow their ship up
C. If you don't do one of the above 2 then you are in violation of the pirate code and are no longer considered a pirate.

Seriously, I know you have your opinion regarding this, but I would like you to consider something.

I know a player who considers it "unsportsmanlike" if you pod someone after pvp. So tell me is it unportsmanlike or not? Who is the one person in EvE that should decide whether it is?

To me it is the same thing when we all sit down and determine what makes up the 'pirate' profession or not. IMO a pirate can choose to behave anyway he wants committing robbery, ransoming, violence, reneging on a promise, corp theft, etc etc. I don't think they need to necessarily follow your or my definition though - that's the beauty of it.

I know this isn't the main point of your OP, but I just wanted to discuss it since it seems to be a secondary theme here.

I do agree with you to never allow yourself to be ransomed again.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-09-21 12:17:54 UTC
These idiots destroyed my 100 Million ISK ship, THEN tried to ransom my pod for 30 Million. I had no implants, my death clone was less than 10 million, and I prefered a quick ride home. Maybe try the ransom BEFORE destroying the ship...

Everyone is always repeating the mantra "Don't Trust Anyone" ad nauseum... If I can't trust the guys I play with, why bother playing with them at all? Fly Solo...
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#68 - 2013-09-21 12:32:54 UTC
Doc Severide wrote:
These idiots destroyed my 100 Million ISK ship, THEN tried to ransom my pod for 30 Million. I had no implants, my death clone was less than 10 million, and I prefered a quick ride home. Maybe try the ransom BEFORE destroying the ship...


Some ships will get blown up really fast if you do not type ransom in local (when you jump into a gate camp there is a lot of time before you uncloak to do so for example) usually pods are worth more than the ships...(people fly with very shiny implants nowerdays...) so we usually try to ransom the pods. Ransoms for ships are offered if we catch an Orca, a freighter or a jump freighter. We accept ransoms for other ships if actively approached though...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Xolve
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-09-21 15:46:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Xolve
Eugene Kerner wrote:
says security status 4.0


Says security status -9.9; keep trying sweetheart, you'll get there one day.

Also- I hear killing primarily cyno ships is the absolute pinnacle of piratehood and elite pvp.

Also, Also- Aunenen cost you another alliance, lol.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2013-09-21 17:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Xolve wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
says security status 4.0


Says security status -9.9; keep trying sweetheart, you'll get there one day.

Also- I hear killing primarily cyno ships is the absolute pinnacle of piratehood and elite pvp.

Also, Also- Aunenen cost you another alliance, lol.


Lol
PL
nough said

(Aunenen is priceless)

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Axirillon Grinder
Brosefz
#71 - 2013-09-21 22:39:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Axirillon Grinder
BoSau Hotim wrote:
Axirillon Grinder wrote:
IMHO, this has gone a little off topic, this went towards the discussion if ransoms are part of piracy, to discuss that you'd have to weigh the benefits of ransoming over destroying, by doing both you will per definition prevent people in believing in ransoms, which in turn is a decent alternative due to the fact of random drops may not be as much worth as the ship itself, the simple point is that from my experience I will and have been warning people never ever to pay ransoms, nor comply to requests for ransoms because they will not be honored,

True piracy is a profession and should be regarded as that, the 2 ways gaining ISK like that would be either ransoming or destroying and looting, the first should be a far more reliable way to make income however is based on trust, my trust in ransoming has taken a severe hit and I will rather opt for destruction or even self destruct my ship next time I get in such a situation. That is the main point of this thread, raise awareness that there is a risk that if you are opted for ransom it will not be honored, I myself always stick with agreements I make and I know there are others out there that do so aswell, but in the end it boils down to the simple fact that looting wrecks is less stable and lucrative than succesfull ransoming, people like I encountered will have a huge negative impact on people that make ransoms their main way of income.

- Axi



I enjoy our attempts of determining what a pirate can or can't do, and if they don't fit our idea of that profession then they are wrong. Honestly - if you find the pirate code and then quote the part that says you may either:

A. Ask for money and if they give it let them go
B. Ask for money and if they refuse blow their ship up
C. If you don't do one of the above 2 then you are in violation of the pirate code and are no longer considered a pirate.

Seriously, I know you have your opinion regarding this, but I would like you to consider something.

I know a player who considers it "unsportsmanlike" if you pod someone after pvp. So tell me is it unportsmanlike or not? Who is the one person in EvE that should decide whether it is?

To me it is the same thing when we all sit down and determine what makes up the 'pirate' profession or not. IMO a pirate can choose to behave anyway he wants committing robbery, ransoming, violence, reneging on a promise, corp theft, etc etc. I don't think they need to necessarily follow your or my definition though - that's the beauty of it.

I know this isn't the main point of your OP, but I just wanted to discuss it since it seems to be a secondary theme here.

I do agree with you to never allow yourself to be ransomed again.



To repond to your question, no my view of a pirate is not being discussed nor the fact what a real pirate is, would be the same to call a thief a criminal and a murderer is a criminal, for the definition of criminal it would not matter, both are correct, what I said was that not honoring ransoms will hurt a stable way of income. Where do you get the idea I imply that a pirate would act a certain way or along certain rules? The only thing I am pointing out in that particular post would be that not abiding by ransoms and thus break agreements hurts that kind of business because I will think twice before entering such an agreement. You say you know my opinion about said situation, you'd be wrong, in my opinion in the end a pirate is someone after loot and isk, not after kills, in my opinion that's just a common murderer but let me state it really clear so there will be no mistaking it, this is my opinion, yes you can disagree, yes you can discuss it, no it won't change the fact that it's subjective and in such impossible to prove wrong just as I can't deny your opinion. So sitting down and have "all" decide what a pirate is or is not is impossible per definition.

-Axi
BoSau Hotim
Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
#72 - 2013-09-22 03:36:46 UTC
I get the idea by the way you write. As you stated above " True piracy is a profession and should be regarded as that, the 2 ways gaining ISK like that would be either ransoming or destroying and looting"

That sure sounds like you deciding what true piracy is.

I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE!  Now... where's Ken?
Axirillon Grinder
Brosefz
#73 - 2013-09-22 09:20:25 UTC
Nope, it's an opinion, that's why I explained what I meant in the line after that, as I said you and I have a difference there in what we mean, you view pirate as a no holds criminal who can do everything and anything, I view it as someone with a goal of gaining ISK as a primary motivation, as I said, both are correct, but it's silly to discuss because it's subjective and hence the discussion about "true piracy" is impossible. But from the viewpoint of gaining ISK ransoming is more effective than blowing things up so the motivation of these people is different hence they do not fit my view of piracy, again don't misread, it's my view and as you say a definition is decided by "all" is a ridiculous notice.

Anyways, this will be my last post about defining piracy I'll make here. I was not and never meant to get sidetracked by a discussion over defining a word, I meant to warn people for certain situations that I in my foolishness misjudged.

- Axi
Kalishka Askulf
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-09-23 15:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalishka Askulf
Axirillon Grinder wrote:
Be aware of the following people, they ransomed me and a friend for our ships, we paid the ransom then as we ejected (agreed in the deal to let them have a rookie killmail) "mislocated" the ships held for ransom. Also in the deal it was agreed on we would NOT get podded, only to get killed anyway. Our ships got stolen and I lost a set of implants.

Booster Mord - Dirt Nap Squad [D-N-S]
Crassadi Sinq Laison Happiness [HAPEN]
Cypir - Member of rules of aquisition [ROA-A]

Well hope someone will check their names and realise THEY WILL SCREW YOU OVER ANYWAY, so don't try a ransom with them.

- Axi


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSV-VtJfwRw

Betty White knows it
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2013-09-23 16:53:38 UTC
Axirillon Grinder wrote:
Nope, it's an opinion, that's why I explained what I meant in the line after that, as I said you and I have a difference there in what we mean, you view pirate as a no holds criminal who can do everything and anything, I view it as someone with a goal of gaining ISK as a primary motivation, as I said, both are correct, but it's silly to discuss because it's subjective and hence the discussion about "true piracy" is impossible. But from the viewpoint of gaining ISK ransoming is more effective than blowing things up so the motivation of these people is different hence they do not fit my view of piracy, again don't misread, it's my view and as you say a definition is decided by "all" is a ridiculous notice.

Anyways, this will be my last post about defining piracy I'll make here. I was not and never meant to get sidetracked by a discussion over defining a word, I meant to warn people for certain situations that I in my foolishness misjudged.

- Axi

Welcome to C&P

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-09-23 17:46:30 UTC
Axirillon Grinder wrote:
Nope, it's an opinion, that's why I explained what I meant in the line after that, as I said you and I have a difference there in what we mean, you view pirate as a no holds criminal who can do everything and anything, I view it as someone with a goal of gaining ISK as a primary motivation, as I said, both are correct, but it's silly to discuss because it's subjective and hence the discussion about "true piracy" is impossible. But from the viewpoint of gaining ISK ransoming is more effective than blowing things up so the motivation of these people is different hence they do not fit my view of piracy, again don't misread, it's my view and as you say a definition is decided by "all" is a ridiculous notice.

Anyways, this will be my last post about defining piracy I'll make here. I was not and never meant to get sidetracked by a discussion over defining a word, I meant to warn people for certain situations that I in my foolishness misjudged.

- Axi


+1.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#77 - 2013-09-24 03:21:41 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Doc Severide wrote:
These idiots destroyed my 100 Million ISK ship, THEN tried to ransom my pod for 30 Million. I had no implants, my death clone was less than 10 million, and I prefered a quick ride home. Maybe try the ransom BEFORE destroying the ship...


Some ships will get blown up really fast if you do not type ransom in local (when you jump into a gate camp there is a lot of time before you uncloak to do so for example) usually pods are worth more than the ships...(people fly with very shiny implants nowerdays...) so we usually try to ransom the pods. Ransoms for ships are offered if we catch an Orca, a freighter or a jump freighter. We accept ransoms for other ships if actively approached though...


Extracting a ransom is an art form (not one that I've mastered though) as in the above example if your clone is clean and your pod gets pointed then why would you pay an ransom?! or say a 50 mil ransom for a 15mil fit frig etc.

There are a fair few poeple out there who will honour ransoms. But like in any negotiation you need to know what you are negotiating for and it's worth. If I grab your pod and ask for 50 mil ransom and you have 1.5bil implants then you'd be better off paying the ransom as the worst that can happen is you lose you 1.5bil pod and 50mil (if you have that kind of pod then 50mil is pocket change) best you get to keep your expensive implants and are let go.

It's a simple numbers game in the end. As a pirate I will try to ransom should I get the chance however sometimes the fight is on and all I'm looking for is a killmail. My corp has a rule about ransoms. "honour them if you offer them". We will always honour ransoms that are made and accepted.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
SB Rico
Sumo Wrestlers
#78 - 2013-09-24 04:26:33 UTC  |  Edited by: SB Rico
Confirming here the united always honor ransoms.
We are also required to honor 1 v 1s, 2 v 2s etc. (we just don't offer those)

Failure to do so is one of the few ways we can end up being booted.

Scammers are currently selling killrights on this toon for up to 5mil, if you have paid for this service demand your money back at once.

Killing me should be for free.
Julius Priscus
#79 - 2013-09-24 06:50:58 UTC
Teinyhr wrote:
But I suppose "true pirates" are a dying breed as people seem to be only interested in getting killmails at any cost.

Now it's mostly "hurpadurp honour in eve LOL?" Really don't like this change in attitude.



I had a dude in a 130+ man corp recruit me... the name rang alarm bells so I did a back ground check on "3 c po " nothing came back. so I applied. them 12 hours later I had a gut feeling so I dug deeper and found he recruits people just so he can kill them once in corp.

so yes you are right lol