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Drones Assist Mechanic Question/Thought
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#101 - 2013-09-23 20:35:04 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:


So out of curiosity... if you kept a few snipers out of range of the sentry drones and moved the fleet to the other side of the pos....

That wouldn't work to adapt? Hell, you can warp through a pos. Perch points aren't hard to figure out or re make.


But that would require the tiniest bit of ~effort~. Also a tiny bit of thought. Much easier to cry on Mommy CCP's bosom.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#102 - 2013-09-23 20:40:31 UTC
Corp A sits inside pos and deploys drones(not outside of pos YET.

Corp B afks to write a tear fueled rage post on exploits.

Corp A pipebombs with the use of a titan.

Meta.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#103 - 2013-09-23 20:56:41 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:

That's Fighters ... Fighters are manned and therefore not Drones.
Fighters are also not launched from Battleships.

Your initial response for similar mechanics is basically the capital ship variant of the exact same thing?

Kitty Bear wrote:
Hmmm that's tricky .. oh wait no it isn't ...

Auto-targeting missiles do work that way. Note how they also shoot more or less random targets deliberately to prevent this kind of focus fire circumventing targeting mechanics. Which means they don't scale into a thousand pilots using them to alpha strike priority targets. And by a thousand I mean the coordination of 4-5 people.

Kitty Bear wrote:
Show me another ship that can have it's primary weapon system destroyed, without the ship itself being damaged that is not a drone boat.

Every non-drone boat can have its weapons destroyed. Luckily, drone boats don't have to worry about burning out their guns. I'm sure some people would like to grumble about ECM and Damps here as well. Show me another ship that is completely immune to EWAR that is not a supercap.

Kitty Bear wrote:
CCP have already stated which aspect of the 'drone assist' command is classed as an exploit ... all other uses fall under the 'emergent gameplay' category ... It's not like it's hard to counter.


Since you are such an expert in fighting against them, please tell me how you go about logistics against a sentry assist fleet. More specifically:
- Each enemy drone boat has a sensor dampener fitted and is damping one random line member
- The enemy drone bunny is a random line drone boat following target broadcasts, that may or may not be changing over the course of the fight.

Please tell us what are the rep broadcast directives that your fleet will employ, to make sure only the person actually taking sentry fire is broadcasting for reps and Logi can lock the person taking fire before they die. Let alone try to catch reps.

Kitty Bear wrote:
[edit]
There is another weapon system in the game, that effectively uses no ammunition either.
Tech 1 Crystals never degrade, and are therefore infinite
Guess we need to bring that oversight to CCP's attention too, get those Amarrians nerfed with their free laser shows.

Sure! Maybe then I also won't need to bring 32,000 rounds of navy MF, 8,000 rounds of Scorch, 8,000 rounds of Conflag and another 32,000 rounds of long range tracking ammo every time I undock - and have a separate set of for each ship. Gets expensive when you welp with 80-112 thousand rounds in the hold all the time.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#104 - 2013-09-23 21:00:53 UTC
Officer smartbomb titan on a gate?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#105 - 2013-09-23 21:06:09 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

So out of curiosity... if you kept a few snipers out of range of the sentry drones and moved the fleet to the other side of the pos....

That wouldn't work to adapt? Hell, you can warp through a pos. Perch points aren't hard to figure out or re make.

You can fit a Domi to have 200km drone control range, 191km optimal and 30k falloff with Wardens or 153+42 with bouncers without sacrificing tank. hard to dance around that even before considering dics/hics/anchored bubbles.

It can only lock out to 87km and has 112 scan res, but fortunately sentry assisting doesn't stop to consider silly things like range or time for locking targets. The domi only has to be within drone control range of the target, the insta locking remote sensor boosted bunny takes care of the rest.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#106 - 2013-09-23 21:23:45 UTC
so .....
200km control range
191+30km optimal+fall off

your issue is with some dubious theory-crafted eft-warrior fail-fit dominix

[High]
6x Drone Link Augmentor II

[Mids]
5x Omnidirectional Tracking Link II

[Lows]
whatever

[Rigs]
whatever

actually fail-fit isn't a good enough description for just how bad and stupid theory-crafting 'possible' fittings can take you into the realms of delusional lunacy.

get a job, a life, professional help ...
something
anything
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#107 - 2013-09-23 21:33:06 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

So out of curiosity... if you kept a few snipers out of range of the sentry drones and moved the fleet to the other side of the pos....

That wouldn't work to adapt? Hell, you can warp through a pos. Perch points aren't hard to figure out or re make.

You can fit a Domi to have 200km drone control range, 191km optimal and 30k falloff with Wardens or 153+42 with bouncers without sacrificing tank. hard to dance around that even before considering dics/hics/anchored bubbles.

It can only lock out to 87km and has 112 scan res, but fortunately sentry assisting doesn't stop to consider silly things like range or time for locking targets. The domi only has to be within drone control range of the target, the insta locking remote sensor boosted bunny takes care of the rest.

Who needs tank when you're attacking from inside a pos shield anyway

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#108 - 2013-09-23 21:35:50 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

So out of curiosity... if you kept a few snipers out of range of the sentry drones and moved the fleet to the other side of the pos....

That wouldn't work to adapt? Hell, you can warp through a pos. Perch points aren't hard to figure out or re make.

You can fit a Domi to have 200km drone control range, 191km optimal and 30k falloff with Wardens or 153+42 with bouncers without sacrificing tank. hard to dance around that even before considering dics/hics/anchored bubbles.

It can only lock out to 87km and has 112 scan res, but fortunately sentry assisting doesn't stop to consider silly things like range or time for locking targets. The domi only has to be within drone control range of the target, the insta locking remote sensor boosted bunny takes care of the rest.

Who needs tank when you're attacking from inside a pos shield anyway


Oddly enough, those same sniper ships killing sentries might have a thing or two to say about shitfit Domi's popping out of POS shields to replace drones.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2013-09-23 21:48:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

That's Fighters ... Fighters are manned and therefore not Drones.
Fighters are also not launched from Battleships.

Your initial response for similar mechanics is basically the capital ship variant of the exact same thing?


Not even remotely the same

A Carrier pilot can assign upto 5 Fighters to whoever he/she chooses.
Its upto 5 and no more than 5, because each fighter assigned utilises the [max drones in space] count of the assignee, not just the ship that launched them.

reason 2 why Fighters are not Drones.
reason 3 is drones don't chase your gimpy ass down when you run away.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#110 - 2013-09-23 21:52:33 UTC
Actually what kind of tank does a sniper ship have to shoot at 200km, how well does it target a small sentry drone, and how fast will it die to 250 Dominixes worth of sentry drones

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#111 - 2013-09-23 22:01:25 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
so .....
your issue is with some dubious theory-crafted eft-warrior fail-fit dominix


Actually, if you so much as pretended to read the thread, you would realize:

My issue is with scrolling through an overview with over 200 targets on grid, looking for the one yellow box that means I have to overheat hardeners and broadcast for reps. While ignoring the other yellow boxes that are trying to troll me into flooding my logi's target list with random people. I have no way to tell if Ishtar137's lock on me will be followed by nothing, ewar, or the combined fire of a thousand sentries.

The effect of the late broadcasts only gets compounded with scan res damped logistics trying to keep up with a remote sensor boosted drone anchor chewing through targets.

Oddly enough, requiring the drone boat to lock the target for the assisted drones to fire fixes this issue. You know when you get primaried and can react. You have to sebo the whole fleet again if you want fast locks and have to deal with EWAR. It also fixes the "hiding in POS" problem in one fell swoop, because you can't lock people while inside a POS.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#112 - 2013-09-23 22:10:03 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

That's Fighters ... Fighters are manned and therefore not Drones.
Fighters are also not launched from Battleships.

Your initial response for similar mechanics is basically the capital ship variant of the exact same thing?


Not even remotely the same

A Carrier pilot can assign upto 5 Fighters to whoever he/she chooses.
Its upto 5 and no more than 5, because each fighter assigned utilises the [max drones in space] count of the assignee, not the ship that launched them.

reason 2 why Fighters are not Drones.
reason 3 is drones don't chase your gimpy ass down when you run away.

Maybe assisted sentries should work like that too. You can only control as many as your drone skill level. So you can still assist 5 sentries to a slasher for instalock and remote-triggered application even through EWAR and whatnot, but you need a newbie in a frigate per battleship whom you can trust to activate your guns for you.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#113 - 2013-09-23 23:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
so .....
your issue is with some dubious theory-crafted eft-warrior fail-fit dominix


Actually, if you so much as pretended to read the thread, you would realize:

My issue is with scrolling through an overview with over 200 targets on grid, looking for the one yellow box that means I have to overheat hardeners and broadcast for reps. While ignoring the other yellow boxes that are trying to troll me into flooding my logi's target list with random people. I have no way to tell if Ishtar137's lock on me will be followed by nothing, ewar, or the combined fire of a thousand sentries.

The effect of the late broadcasts only gets compounded with scan res damped logistics trying to keep up with a remote sensor boosted drone anchor chewing through targets.

Oddly enough, requiring the drone boat to lock the target for the assisted drones to fire fixes this issue. You know when you get primaried and can react. You have to sebo the whole fleet again if you want fast locks and have to deal with EWAR. It also fixes the "hiding in POS" problem in one fell swoop, because you can't lock people while inside a POS.


there is no hiding in a POS whilst utilising sentries
CCP already declared it an exploit

so actually your whining about that something that is now irrelevant and reportable if you do encounter it





you wanted a counter to a sentry baased fleet

it's easy
it only uses 1 midslot
fit an AB or MWD/MJD & move out of range.

1 of many counters ... as you seem to enjoy EFT so much i'll let you work out others
after all, i'd hate to deprive you of your e-warrioring fun.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#114 - 2013-09-23 23:06:58 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
so .....
your issue is with some dubious theory-crafted eft-warrior fail-fit dominix


Actually, if you so much as pretended to read the thread, you would realize:

My issue is with scrolling through an overview with over 200 targets on grid, looking for the one yellow box that means I have to overheat hardeners and broadcast for reps. While ignoring the other yellow boxes that are trying to troll me into flooding my logi's target list with random people. I have no way to tell if Ishtar137's lock on me will be followed by nothing, ewar, or the combined fire of a thousand sentries.

The effect of the late broadcasts only gets compounded with scan res damped logistics trying to keep up with a remote sensor boosted drone anchor chewing through targets.

Oddly enough, requiring the drone boat to lock the target for the assisted drones to fire fixes this issue. You know when you get primaried and can react. You have to sebo the whole fleet again if you want fast locks and have to deal with EWAR. It also fixes the "hiding in POS" problem in one fell swoop, because you can't lock people while inside a POS.


there is no hiding in a POS whilst utilising sentries
CCP already declared it an exploit

so actually your whining about that something that is now irrelevant and reportable if you do encounter it

I like how you read the last sentence (which is a by the way, this mechanically fixes the banned exploit) and completely ignore 99% of the post.

Like I said, can you at least pretend to read? Or do I have to re-write it to a one-liner in it's own separate post just for you?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#115 - 2013-09-23 23:17:31 UTC
Here's a picture for you:

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The [ ] in bold are flashing yellow. Do you overheat hardeners and brodcast for reps? A yes or no answer will suffice

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#116 - 2013-09-23 23:21:26 UTC
no, im answering the relevant points you raised
the rest im ignoring as its baseless rhetoric and theory crafting taken to absurd extremes

in your world sentry fleets are unstoppable engines of destruction and carnage
the rest of us play in a game where reality actually lives

a world in which sentry fleets don't happen because they have too many limitations and too many easy to manage counters.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#117 - 2013-09-23 23:50:53 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:

the rest of us play in a game where reality actually lives

a world in which sentry fleets don't happen because they have too many limitations and too many easy to manage counters.

Nice troll 10/10

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#118 - 2013-09-23 23:52:51 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

the rest of us play in a game where reality actually lives

a world in which sentry fleets don't happen because they have too many limitations and too many easy to manage counters.

Nice troll 10/10


Wasn't the fountain war basically mega VS sentry? Some of the killboard did look like that IIRC.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#119 - 2013-09-24 00:14:35 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:

the rest of us play in a game where reality actually lives

a world in which sentry fleets don't happen because they have too many limitations and too many easy to manage counters.

Nice troll 10/10


Wasn't the fountain war basically mega VS sentry? Some of the killboard did look like that IIRC.

That's apparently impossible, no one would ever use a sentry doctrine in the real world

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#120 - 2013-09-24 00:17:12 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Here's a picture for you:

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The [ ] in bold are flashing yellow. Do you overheat hardeners and brodcast for reps? A yes or no answer will suffice

But isn't the FC in a brick tanked proteus using a passive targeter so you don't see anything

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?