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PI ISK calculations, advice/confirmation needed
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Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#1 - 2013-09-18 11:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Vartan Sarkisian
I have been working out some projected figures for my PI but I think I am getting something wrong, being that my maths skills are abysmal I wonder if someone could point out where I am going wrong if indeed I am.

I’ve broken it down how (I think) it’s done, apologies for the long winded method.

Assumptions made
That the resources needed are in place
Factories are running 24/7

A basic factory will take 30 minutes to turn 3000 units of P0 into 20 units of P1, so per hour a basic factory will turn 6000 units of P0 into 40 units of P1.

With 2 basic factories I will get 12000 units of P0 into 80 units of P1 per hour.

So if I have a set up that is producing P2 items, I would double this. Lets take supertensile plastics for an example. 2 factories would turn 12000 units of Noble Gas into 80 units of Oxygen per hour. And another 2 factories would turn 12000 units of Planktic Colonies into 80 units of Biomass per hour.

On top of the basic factories I would have 2 advanced factories making the supertensile plastics. I need 40 units of Oxygen and 40 units of Biomass to make 5 units of supertensile plastics, so with the set up about I’ll be getting 10 units of supertensile plastics per hour.

Every 24 hours I would get 240 units of supertensile plastics, if supertensile plastics are 7000 isk a unit that is 1.68m per day, which is 11.76m per week which is 50.96m per month (a month being worked out as 7 days * 52 weeks divided by 12 months).

Is this correct? Would I really get 50.96m per month (before taxes) or 45.864m per month inc 10% taxes in high sec) per planet? With just 4 basic and 2 advanced factories based on a 7k unit price or am I missing something here?
Dedaf
United Brothers Of Eve
#2 - 2013-09-18 13:59:14 UTC
Hi Vartan
fast answer is yes 240unist a day *7000isk * 30days is about 50m.

But there are alot of things to take in to account here.
First, it can be hard to find a planet in Empire that can supply your 4*P1 factories with enough P0 material, when at the same time needing to have 2 factories making P2. unless you constantly change the harvesters, but even that might be har do keep up with all of the month. infact it might be that you need 2 planets to do this, and then you need to factor in export and import tax aswell.

The second thing is, sometimes the P0 or P1 material is actually better to sell than to use for building P2. in your calculation you see P0 and P1 material at 0 value. when infact you could sell it directly on market for profit.

let do a fast calculation.
P0 material1= 1 isk
P0 material2= 1 isk
needed P0 = 12.000 isk

From those 12.000 P0 you can build 5 supertensile plastics for example, which means the build price is 2400 for 1 unit.
This is a thought example i know, but as you can see, you dont need to change the price of the P0 material very much before it is better to sell the P0 or P1 over the P2. at times some P0 material is selling for more than 3isk.

i have build a tool to show you the build price of all PI material, you can try it out here, then you will very fast, have a view of what is best to build and what is best to sell.

Good luck with the production

Want to know what is best to mine or build at which cost? then try out Dedaf's Industrial Tool http://dedafsindustrialtool.blogspot.dk/
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#3 - 2013-09-18 14:28:52 UTC
Hi dedaf, thanks for replying.

I used to actually sell the P0 raw materials. I found several issues.

1. The sheer amount of material it produced. Baring mind mind I was doing PI over 16 planets I would get 1.5 orca loads in a couple of days.
2. Prices vs available resources. If you look at the P0 available in jita, some are worth more than others. Of course the ones worth more are scarce on high sec planets so I went for what was in abundance more (although using the word abundance when talking about high sec PI is misleading), but even so, the prices would fluctuate a lot (I was selling to buy orders).
3. I was having to revisit the PI almost daily as things would fill up etc.

Being lazy, I wanted something where I may only have to go pick stuff up once a fortnight, so thought that p2 would be the best option, but yes you're right in terms of what you say. I will take a look at the tool you mention when I get home, but I just wanted to double check that my calculations were right as I didn't think I would be able to sub, or near sub my account with plex based on high sec PI
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
#4 - 2013-09-18 15:16:20 UTC
I tried PLEXing with Hisec PI once and it worked: Link

Blog | Tutorials | Youtube "I don’t know everything, I just know what I know."
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-18 16:27:31 UTC
Invictras test was what started my PI, the googledocs sheet is still very useful.
I personally make P2 in lowsec atm, even if i might make more isk with P1 its much lower maintenance / hauling with P2.
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#6 - 2013-09-19 02:20:46 UTC
Just a clarification, taxes paid for exporting PI goods have nothing to do with the goods' actual value. This is why I prefer to avoid the term "tax" altogether and instead refer to export and import fees, which to me seems clearer. Each level of PI good has a "nominal value" built into the game, export/import fees are calculated from that, regardles of the actual market value of the good. For some low value items it is quite possible for the export "tax" to exceed the value of the item.

Tier / nominal value / highsec export fee
0 / 5 isk / 0.5 isk
1 / 500 isk / 50 isk
2 / 9000 isk / 900 isk
3 / 70,000 isk / 7000 isk
4 / 1,350,000 isk / 135,000 isk

Import fees are 1/2 the export fee for a given tier. Command center launches cost 1.5 times the normal export fee of a launchpad.
Nominal Value
Gildinous Vangaurd
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-09-19 07:00:41 UTC
High Sec. That's your problem.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#8 - 2013-09-19 13:03:45 UTC
Thanks for the replies people, currently I have set up 3 x P2 planets in high sec as an experiment.

1 launchpad
1 storage
4 basic
2 advanced factories
2 ECU with 4 heads each on my CC IV characters and 5 heads each on my CC V character

It does seem that 2 basics are not being utilised fully, which is fair enough.
I looked at the Invictras site, interesting stuff, ill read more.
I think given my setup (1 jump from Jita) that if this method nets 400/500m over a calender month then ill be happy... OK it isn't a plex but its a fat chunk towards it.
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#9 - 2013-09-22 13:05:16 UTC
I grabbed a copy of that Invictras test google doc, does anyone know if there is any support for this resource? I see the website has not been updated since feb 2013 and Ive a few fields on the spreadsheet that are not working.
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-09-22 13:13:37 UTC
i have an alt that does pretty much only PI.
It does it in low sec and with a T1 industrial as the hauler.
people have shown interest in popping it but no one has locked it yet and anyway it has a ton of warpcore stabilisers.
you get a LOT better yield in low sec and generally the taxes are lower.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#11 - 2013-09-22 13:20:30 UTC
Invictra Atreides wrote:
I tried PLEXing with Hisec PI once and it worked: Link


Ahhh I should be more observant, that is your spreadsheet and website... interesting read btw, are you available to answer questions on the spreadsheet
Vartan Sarkisian
Tannhauser C-Beam
Lux Collective
#12 - 2013-09-22 13:23:07 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
i have an alt that does pretty much only PI.
It does it in low sec and with a T1 industrial as the hauler.
people have shown interest in popping it but no one has locked it yet and anyway it has a ton of warpcore stabilisers.
you get a LOT better yield in low sec and generally the taxes are lower.


I have done low sec PI in the past, but from that spreadsheet good money is available in high sec PI too if done correctly.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2013-09-22 15:11:32 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
i have an alt that does pretty much only PI.
It does it in low sec and with a T1 industrial as the hauler.
people have shown interest in popping it but no one has locked it yet and anyway it has a ton of warpcore stabilisers.
you get a LOT better yield in low sec and generally the taxes are lower.



Yup. High Sec is pretty much a joke as far as PI goes. Especially with those taxes.

Try Deep Space Transports for your pick-ups. Comes already with +2 warp protection, with room for a few more stabbers and cargo expanders.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882