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New dev blog: Player Owned Customs Offices: An update!

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CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#61 - 2011-11-15 13:39:34 UTC
Salpun wrote:
WH PI was not addressed in the blog directly. All customs offices will remain until destroyed correct?


Yes any existing NPC customs offices that are on TQ when this update lands will remain until they are destroyed.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#62 - 2011-11-15 13:39:35 UTC
Cool, I like the update. The flexibility in transition and tax control is a good way to go.

As for other suggestions and comments:

Concord LP for sleepers? No - you're out in wild-west space, why would Concord care? You want the LP, come join the settled universe for a bit, or shop on the market for your PCO when they arrive. At least you have Interbus's CO to hold you over.

Conquerable vs. destroyable: No - CCP is wanting to move away from conquerable stations in 0.0 and make them destroyable too. This would be a step in the wrong direction.

The big list of "concerns": Many of those are contradictory, and many are personal whines based on wild speculation. Just because someone posted it doesn't make it a valid concern.

Lowsec PI being owned by 0.0 blob alliances: Um yeah, sure. They'll have plenty of time to go check on thousands of PCOs on hundreds of planets in dozens of systems. Yep, this trickle of isk will surely be the next king-maker and replace moon mining. *yawn*

Good job wading through 80+ pages of whining and drivel to pull out the good stuff CCP :)

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#63 - 2011-11-15 13:41:19 UTC
CCP Omen wrote:
"You did not account for all or even most of the feedback to the first thread"
We acted on the feedback that we agreed with and that was feasible within the time frame. Many ideas were excellent but too grand.

Regards
Omen


One idea that was not too grand and very feasible.

Cancel this completely. Job done.
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#64 - 2011-11-15 13:41:48 UTC
Salpun wrote:
WH PI was not addressed in the blog directly. All customs offices will remain until destroyed correct?


yes

regards
Omen

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison
Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
#65 - 2011-11-15 13:43:07 UTC
Zeimanov Kalzumaan wrote:

Just to check - will the Interbus customs offices have a reinforcement cycle? if so will it be random or will they be able to be destroyed straight off the bat?


I would like to know this too...
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#66 - 2011-11-15 13:43:38 UTC
Solo Player wrote:
@CCP:

I'm still missing an explanation why (for example) the Amarr Empire would just
- let a (form their perspective) terrorist organisation like Ushra'khan destroy an Interbus customs office
- and then let same terrorists tariff Amarr-built products
- even let them restrict POCO use to terrorists
on a populated planet under Amarrian Sovereignty for free!

Is this (plausibility) not a concern to you at all?


For the same reasons they don't go into lowsec to enforce or punish anything else that goes on there.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
John DaiSho
Quam Singulari Industry
Roid Suckers
#67 - 2011-11-15 13:44:00 UTC
From the devblog:
- The highsec Customs Offices are transferred to CONCORD as previously planned
- Ownership of all lowsec, 0.0 and WORMHOLE Customs Offices is transferred to NPC corp “Interbus”
- The Interbus Customs Offices can be used for PI or shot down (without standing or security penalty)
- Interbus Customs Offices will not be de-spawned, they will remain until destroyed by players
- The Interbus Corporation will charge slightly more tax than CONCORD and we will continue to monitor the tax rates for both CONCORD and Interbus

So yes, WH offices will stay as Interbus once until the guys that live there weill replace them with their own once.
"
CCP Omen
C C P
C C P Alliance
#68 - 2011-11-15 13:44:06 UTC
Zeimanov Kalzumaan wrote:
Great work CCP - I'm starting to get quite concerned about this patch - has there been some sort of invasion of the body snatchers, everything is too perfect and it's making me suspicious.

Just to check - will the Interbus customs offices have a reinforcement cycle? if so will it be random or will they be able to be destroyed straight off the bat?


Thank you! No body snatchers as far as I am aware.

The Interbus corporation is far too incompetent to install reinforcement so no, they don't go into reinforced.

Senior Game Designer Team True Grit EVE/DUST Gameplay Liaison
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#69 - 2011-11-15 13:44:50 UTC
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
"You did not account for all or even most of the feedback to the first thread"
We acted on the feedback that we agreed with and that was feasible within the time frame. Many ideas were excellent but too grand.

Regards
Omen


One idea that was not too grand and very feasible.

Cancel this completely. Job done.


I'm guessing that idea failed the "that we agreed with" test.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Grukni
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#70 - 2011-11-15 13:47:43 UTC
I like it.
CCP simply wants to add more value to PI. In the future we'll be able to fight for PI in DUST514.
Solo Player
#71 - 2011-11-15 13:50:14 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Solo Player wrote:
@CCP:

I'm still missing an explanation why (for example) the Amarr Empire would just
- let a (form their perspective) terrorist organisation like Ushra'khan destroy an Interbus customs office
- and then let same terrorists tariff Amarr-built products
- even let them restrict POCO use to terrorists
on a populated planet under Amarrian Sovereignty for free!

Is this (plausibility) not a concern to you at all?


For the same reasons they don't go into lowsec to enforce or punish anything else that goes on there.


But they do - there is a difference between lowsec and NPC nullsec, you know? And even so, they may turn a blind eye to capsuleers, but it would be enormously against their own interests if Empires just let anyone who wants run their own planets.
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
#72 - 2011-11-15 13:51:16 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Rommiee wrote:
CCP Omen wrote:
"You did not account for all or even most of the feedback to the first thread"
We acted on the feedback that we agreed with and that was feasible within the time frame. Many ideas were excellent but too grand.

Regards
Omen


One idea that was not too grand and very feasible.

Cancel this completely. Job done.


I'm guessing that idea failed the "that we agreed with" test.


Yes, clearly.

So we are back to the "Do what we want and dont listen" mode then.... sigh
Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-11-15 13:52:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Smacker
Arkady Sadik wrote:
[quote=Ethanole]
So really, not that far off.

Very far off. My alt PI operations paid over 40 mil in custom taxes last month in 0.1 and 0.2 systems.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#74 - 2011-11-15 13:57:02 UTC
Cool story bro(CCP Omen) Cool
The plebs is afraid of change.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
John DaiSho
Quam Singulari Industry
Roid Suckers
#75 - 2011-11-15 13:58:33 UTC
Rommiee wrote:


Yes, clearly.

So we are back to the "Do what we want and dont listen" mode then.... sigh


More like "Dont listen to stupid ideas" - mode.

o/ John
Hiram Alexander
State Reprisal
#76 - 2011-11-15 13:58:57 UTC
Hi, I haven't gone through all the replies here yet, though I will in a minute... I just wanted to ask a short (silly?) question, for a bit of clarification...

Q --- Does the tax rate setting for 'Neutral' standings also work properly; so that it acts as the tax rate for 'No standings'...?
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#77 - 2011-11-15 14:04:17 UTC
Solo Player wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Solo Player wrote:
@CCP:

I'm still missing an explanation why (for example) the Amarr Empire would just
- let a (form their perspective) terrorist organisation like Ushra'khan destroy an Interbus customs office
- and then let same terrorists tariff Amarr-built products
- even let them restrict POCO use to terrorists
on a populated planet under Amarrian Sovereignty for free!

Is this (plausibility) not a concern to you at all?


For the same reasons they don't go into lowsec to enforce or punish anything else that goes on there.


But they do - there is a difference between lowsec and NPC nullsec, you know? And even so, they may turn a blind eye to capsuleers, but it would be enormously against their own interests if Empires just let anyone who wants run their own planets.


They already "let" anyone who wants to run their own moon. Although, I would choose the word "ignore" rather than "let".

Factions don't do anything in lowsec to enforce any rules. They merely throw up a couple guns outside their stations to shoot at perceived threats to the order, but they don't pursue or enforce any sort of justice. If they did, it would cease to be lowsec and become another hisec system.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
CCP Nullarbor
C C P
C C P Alliance
#78 - 2011-11-15 14:05:04 UTC
Hiram Alexander wrote:
Hi, I haven't gone through all the replies here yet, though I will in a minute... I just wanted to ask a short (silly?) question, for a bit of clarification...

Q --- Does the tax rate setting for 'Neutral' standings also work properly; so that it acts as the tax rate for 'No standings'...?


Yes, if you have no standing set then you get the neutral value.

CCP Nullarbor // Senior Engineer // Team Game of Drones
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#79 - 2011-11-15 14:06:22 UTC
I think the #1 change that needs to be made to the UI is to do away with the percentage signs. They are going to cause endless confusion about how the import/export fees are calculated. A lot of people are going to assume that "10%" means 10% of market value and not 10% of some internal tariff value.

Change those fields to say:

### x

So a 1% setting for the corporate tariff would be entered as "0.01x". The 10% setting would be "0.10x". (or change the fields and base tariff amounts to work on integers... 1x to 20x).

And the fields still need to be changed to specifically say "tariff" not "tax/taxes". "Tariff" implies a book of rates, tax tends to imply a percentage of value.
Brunaburh
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#80 - 2011-11-15 14:09:44 UTC
Rommiee wrote:

[i]User Interface not good enough
Not enough flexibility at setting taxes for the different standing levels. Player suggestion here.
Timestamp of tax collection in corp wallet could be used to collect intel on people doing PI.
Tax management bad for large entities, necessary to include alliance level also.
Finding “suitable” PCOs without going from system to system near impossible.
Advertising tax rate for PCO and checking for competitors extremely difficult.


Lowsec changes caters only griefing
Lowsec will get devastated since every random group can bust PCOs without drawback
Risk/Reward in Lowsec is completely wrong, no good enough profit from PI in Lowsec.

Taxes were addressed, to some extent.
Other than somehow seeing the tax rates prior to entering a system to set up, the rest of this is whining.


Have you ever been in LoSec? I live there. Unless you are in a handful of populous areas, Losec is a ghost town. All of these arguments are fallacies.



Rommiee wrote:

Nullsec changes only good for blobs and large groups
Shuts out small groups from 0.0 as they can’t compete with big blobs
Large 0.0 alliances will never allow independent small groups (as seen in the past)
PCO owners won’t allow access of neutrals, this encourages only big blobs
Supercap blob heaven shooting up those defenceless structures



Bad effects on other industries
PI prices will increase drastically, affecting POS owners heavily, making it more difficult for the small/new people

Waaaa! Perhaps EVE is due for some inflation in PI related processes then.


Rommiee wrote:

Pricelevels are off, PCOs will be unprofitable
PCOs will be unprofitable and not worth the invested time and especially ISK
Income from PCOs will be too low to justify the build costs and risk deploying them
Taxrate will be either near 0 or near 100
Taxes in Highsec for P4 products too high

Reviewed and proven as false.


Rommiee wrote:

Worries about general mechanics
Only one PCO per planet is not good enough and hinders competition.
Too big changes with not enough thoughts being put into the resulting effects on the sandbox as whole
Defenceless PCOs are bad and encourage random griefing and no ‘constructive’ destruction
Transport rocket from player surface is not large enough to prevent being locked out prom planets
P4 producers are especially hit hard when no PCO is around, rocket won’t help here

Worries and whining. Baseless fears. Or resolved with the NPC PCO remaining.


Rommiee wrote:

Change of playstyle to more blobbing and griefing, hurting small people
Encourages blobbing
Discourages small gang warfare
Hurts the small people most, benefits large blobs most
Encourages griefing a lot as there is no risk in attacking PCOs
Easy griefing PCOs discourages constructive gameplay
Giving away control to people who do not really care about it – heavy grief play results.
Lowsec/Nullsec exclusively for corps and alliances only now
More boring structure shooting and grinding
Extremely asymmetric , catering to the attackers and griefers
Forces people into corporations if they want to do PCO, big change of playstyle

Bad for casual gameplay
Hurts the casual player since they normally won’t get the required corp roles to deploy PCOs
PI changes from low risk, low income to high risk, very boring, medium income
Why roles at all for POCs? That only hurts casual games without roles

15 battleships is blobbing now? You must live in hisec. All of this is additional whining from people who want to play a different game than EVE Online.


HiSec for casual play. CONCORD PCOs. Problem solved.


I'd say most valid concerns were addressed in some way.

Of course if you count the concerns that are whining because EVE is a PvP game, less are addressed. But then you shouldn't be playing EVE...