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Crime & Punishment

 
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Ganking too easy?
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Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#241 - 2013-09-22 03:10:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
You're a little slow.


You can abdicate the argument if you would like, that's your decision.

But you still have yet to tell me why there needs to be a mechanic change due to your failure to find a way to inflict a significant loss against an individual prepared to mitigate the losses of their actions.


[edit: Here, I'll add to that. You, just from the fact that you got ganked at all, were not adequately prepared. Why should you be rewarded for poor gameplay?


It's all there in Black and White (if you read the thread) but it appears you can't even read the OP.

The idea is to create a real Kill Rights mechanism that people will use. The intent is to create better game play.

It is not intended to guarantee a kill of a ganker's expensive ship, it is not intended to be "an eye for an eye".

The idea is to create more "emergent game play" so that there is more motivation to *actually use the Kill Right mechanism* because as it stands right now it is a waste of everyone's time.

The idea is to not have a mechanism *that actually penalizes the victim, but protects the gankers (as long as they remain above -5) while they line up their next victim*.

You can go on and on about how it was all my fault...(huh, I seem to state in the *very first post* of this 12 page thread that I didn't keep my eyes as open as I should have and as a resident of a home system that is 0.2 I actually do know better)...but that was never in dispute.

What IS in dispute is whether Kill Rights work to punish dedicated gankers. Only those with a vested interest in ganking think it works.

Not one post in this thread has provided the slightest evidence that Kill Rights work, while we all agree Kill Rights only prevent otherwise reputable characters from having a ganking fling.

If you have some actual input into how they could be made better *so that people use them, themselves, and can go get their payback in enough measure to motivate them to do so* then you might have something to contribute.

Otherwise it's just another poster determined to prove to himself that Eve is perfect because the current status quo works for him.

Eve is not remotely perfect. It has been a durable game, but it is INCREDIBLY SMALL. Every time I log in I lol that only ~45K people actively play on a "busy" Saturday. That isn't much of a status quo to defend.

If we enjoy it we should all work to make it even better.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#242 - 2013-09-22 03:29:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaarous Aldurald
Quote:
The idea is to create a real Kill Rights mechanism that people will use. The intent is to create better game play.


No, it's not. You have been babbling the entire thread about how the way the gankers play makes it impossible to inflict a significant loss on them with your killright, and that's what your problem is.

But that's not a problem with the killrights. I have already, repeatedly told you that people have found ways to make the current killrights system work for them, myself among them.

But you're bad, so you can't do it, and want CCP to do it for you. The end.

Quote:
The idea is to not have a mechanism *that actually penalizes the victim, but protects the gankers (as long as they remain above -5) while they line up their next victim*.


The current system does not in any way penalize the "victim" (I love how carebears insist on playing the victim, by the way), it merely requires you to actually try a tiny bit to use it, rather than just buying a new ship and going afk in the belt again. It also does not protect gankers. If they are above -5 and you use a killright on them, good. If they are below -5, then why do you even care? You can attack them anyway.

The game gives you the tools, and if they go unused...

Quote:

Not one post in this thread has provided the slightest evidence that Kill Rights work, while we all agree Kill Rights only prevent otherwise reputable characters from having a ganking fling.


That is EXACTLY what it is for. The punishment for career ganking is not killrights. It's neg ten. Your entire problem, just like every carebear, is a misconception you refuse to let go of. Killrights are not to get back at a neg ten. Being able to shoot them as many damn times as you can get a lock on them is the punishment for being a neg ten.

Quote:
Otherwise it's just another poster determined to prove to himself that Eve is perfect because the current status quo works for him.


The status quo works for me, and many other people, because I actually try to play the game, not beg CCP to play it for me because I am too lazy/stupid/uninformed/ignorant/unimaginative to do so myself.

Like every carebear, you seem to think you get something for nothing. Get this. You don't get to mine afk without maybe being blown up. You don't get to have the devs take revenge for you.

And you certainly don't get to whine at real players because they challenge your sense of entitlement. And yes, "carebears", in the meaning I choose to use it, are not real players. They barely qualify as players at all, in fact.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#243 - 2013-09-22 03:42:28 UTC
Oh, and I simply could not let this sheer, unquestioned stupidity pass:

Quote:
The idea is to create more "emergent game play" so that there is more motivation to *actually use the Kill Right mechanism* because as it stands right now it is a waste of everyone's time.


#1, it's a waste of time for you and people like you, because you and they are bad and can't figure out how to use it right.

#2, emergent gameplay is something the players do, not the devs. If I roll into Bosena, set up cans at the gates declaring that I own all the anoms in the system, and kill anyone who enters those anoms, that is emergent gameplay. Begging CCP for nerfs to something you don't like is not emergent gameplay. That's just whining.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#244 - 2013-09-22 03:50:29 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Oh, and I simply could not let this sheer, unquestioned stupidity pass:

Quote:
The idea is to create more "emergent game play" so that there is more motivation to *actually use the Kill Right mechanism* because as it stands right now it is a waste of everyone's time.


#1, it's a waste of time for you and people like you, because you and they are bad and can't figure out how to use it right.

#2, emergent gameplay is something the players do, not the devs. If I roll into Bosena, set up cans at the gates declaring that I own all the anoms in the system, and kill anyone who enters those anoms, that is emergent gameplay. Begging CCP for nerfs to something you don't like is not emergent gameplay. That's just whining.



Cool story bro.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#245 - 2013-09-22 04:28:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
The idea is to create a real Kill Rights mechanism that people will use. The intent is to create better game play.


No, it's not. You have been babbling the entire thread about how the way the gankers play makes it impossible to inflict a significant loss on them with your killright, and that's what your problem is.

But that's not a problem with the killrights. I have already, repeatedly told you that people have found ways to make the current killrights system work for them, myself among them.

But you're bad, so you can't do it, and want CCP to do it for you. The end.

Quote:
The idea is to not have a mechanism *that actually penalizes the victim, but protects the gankers (as long as they remain above -5) while they line up their next victim*.


The current system does not in any way penalize the "victim" (I love how carebears insist on playing the victim, by the way), it merely requires you to actually try a tiny bit to use it, rather than just buying a new ship and going afk in the belt again. It also does not protect gankers. If they are above -5 and you use a killright on them, good. If they are below -5, then why do you even care? You can attack them anyway.

The game gives you the tools, and if they go unused...

Quote:

Not one post in this thread has provided the slightest evidence that Kill Rights work, while we all agree Kill Rights only prevent otherwise reputable characters from having a ganking fling.


That is EXACTLY what it is for. The punishment for career ganking is not killrights. It's neg ten. Your entire problem, just like every carebear, is a misconception you refuse to let go of. Killrights are not to get back at a neg ten. Being able to shoot them as many damn times as you can get a lock on them is the punishment for being a neg ten.

Quote:
Otherwise it's just another poster determined to prove to himself that Eve is perfect because the current status quo works for him.


The status quo works for me, and many other people, because I actually try to play the game, not beg CCP to play it for me because I am too lazy/stupid/uninformed/ignorant/unimaginative to do so myself.

Like every carebear, you seem to think you get something for nothing. Get this. You don't get to mine afk without maybe being blown up. You don't get to have the devs take revenge for you.

And you certainly don't get to whine at real players because they challenge your sense of entitlement. And yes, "carebears", in the meaning I choose to use it, are not real players. They barely qualify as players at all, in fact.



LOL you are a "real player". Tell it to someone who gives a ****.

Seriously bro...talk about "entitlement"? Your post is the very epitome of it.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#246 - 2013-09-22 04:39:34 UTC
Quote:
LOL you are a "real player". Tell it to someone who gives a ****.

Seriously bro...talk about "entitlement"? Your post is the very epitome of it.


"N'uh uh! You are!"

:)

No, I'd have to say the class of players that insists it is their god-given right to perform every activity while afk, rails against anyone who dares to say otherwise, and begs CCP on a daily basis to legislate people they don't like (gankers) out of existence, are the ones with the entitlement mindset.

I just want people to play the game. The "miners/carebears" want to get everything that I get, except without playing the game.

They're not real players. Most of them never have the chance of becoming real players either, what's more.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#247 - 2013-09-22 05:01:25 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
LOL you are a "real player". Tell it to someone who gives a ****.

Seriously bro...talk about "entitlement"? Your post is the very epitome of it.


"N'uh uh! You are!"

:)

No, I'd have to say the class of players that insists it is their god-given right to perform every activity while afk, rails against anyone who dares to say otherwise, and begs CCP on a daily basis to legislate people they don't like (gankers) out of existence, are the ones with the entitlement mindset.

I just want people to play the game. The "miners/carebears" want to get everything that I get, except without playing the game.

They're not real players. Most of them never have the chance of becoming real players either, what's more.


Now you're just being boring.

But do carry on, telling us about what constitutes a "real" player who flies spaceships in an MMO that is so awesome it is actually so obscure as to be laughable.

I wonder why that is?

playa....lol.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#248 - 2013-09-22 05:04:41 UTC
Quote:

Now you're just being boring.

But do carry on, telling us about what constitutes a "real" player who flies spaceships in an MMO that is so awesome it is actually so obscure as to be laughable.

I wonder why that is?

playa....lol.


If you don't like it, why do you play it?

Or were you going for the tired old "I can make eve better" line?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#249 - 2013-09-22 05:55:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:

Now you're just being boring.

But do carry on, telling us about what constitutes a "real" player who flies spaceships in an MMO that is so awesome it is actually so obscure as to be laughable.

I wonder why that is?

playa....lol.


If you don't like it, why do you play it?

Or were you going for the tired old "I can make eve better" line?



I didn't say I didn't like it, I started a thread to generate discussion and some of it has been good. The game has good and bad, which the sheer numbers of people playing it (very, very low) should make apparent to all.

I make no such claims that I can improve Eve. I know the Devs have followed this thread and can take or leave from it what they choose. It's their baby. If anything I posted ever improves the game in any way I would be stoked to have contributed.

Now, carry on with your tales of leet daring do and pew pew which is what seems to be the point of your posts.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#250 - 2013-09-22 06:07:29 UTC
Quote:
I didn't say I didn't like it, I started a thread to generate discussion and some of it has been good.


But just the parts that agree with you, right? You thus far have praised every opinion in line with your own, whilst one of your first posts to someone who disagrees was to call them and all gankers sociopaths.

Quote:
I make no such claims that I can improve Eve.


Yes, you did. And I quote:

Quote:
Eve is not remotely perfect. It has been a durable game, but it is INCREDIBLY SMALL. Every time I log in I lol that only ~45K people actively play on a "busy" Saturday. That isn't much of a status quo to defend.

If we enjoy it we should all work to make it even better.



Quote:
I know the Devs have followed this thread and can take or leave from it what they choose. It's their baby. If anything I posted ever improves the game in any way I would be stoked to have contributed.


The devs read a lot less on these forums than you might imagine. As can be seen with the extremely bizarre posting going on in GD at present, for instance.

They mostly read F&I or the CSM sub forums, and have outright stated as much in the past.

Quote:
Now, carry on with your tales of leet daring do and pew pew which is what seems to be the point of your posts.


Not really no, you miss the point. During this thread, you have been outed as a miner. My point is that literally anything else in the game is actually playing. Mining isn't. It's quite literally not playing the game, at least the way a lot of people do it. As evidenced by the hundreds of killmails the New Order racks up every month from people who are afk.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Old Space Guy
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#251 - 2013-09-22 10:18:27 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Okay before we get into the whole mental illness topic remember this is just a game and not real life. It's also a game where PVP is encouraged. Often this PVP is not even close to fair. This is also encouraged.

To the "if I lose a billion ISK I should be able to gank 100 million" idea it's not practical since if the gankers are flying destroyers you're going to busy trying to get 100 mil worth.


i don't think he's talking about practicality. it's highly unlikely that said individual is going to bother tracking some two-bit alt down and blow up his endless supply of catalysts.

what it does sound like is a rather ambiguous form of equality. if you lose a billion isk to some gankers, you should be allowed to pursue them and blow up their endless catalyst supply for... eternity. assuming the victim has the skills to, and the good fortune to cross paths.

frankly though, unless these gank alts are griding sec status, they're going to be flashy anyway, so one already kinda has unlimited smackdowns on their cool cats.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#252 - 2013-09-23 02:24:31 UTC
I would like to award a forum PVP win to Kaarous Aldurald, not only did he continue to try and explain to the OP he landed more than a few head shots in this round. Big smile

To the OP, the system that you talk about is not broken, just a few people are not taking advantage of itShocked. Just because a small group does not take advantage of the tools at their disposal does not make it broken. If they fail to study to learn about the tools from the numerous resources that does not make it anyone's fault but their own. I take ships away from people who fail to train and fit tanks, that does not mean the tanks are broken, but the person failed to train them, buy them, and fit them.

Your post reminds me of the whining that killed other games when Dev's gave in to it. Ie:
Wh1 "It's not fair that he can leap on me in a PVP area and I have no warning or consent to him jumping on me"
Re" You have a interrupt that is the tool we give you to stop people from leaping on you, and a knock back and his leap has a GCD"
Wh1 "I used the interrupt but it did not work"
Re"how did it now work?"
Wh1"there was six of them and only one of me, they should not be able to kill me in 2 secs"
RE "l2p"
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#253 - 2013-09-23 03:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Yi-Ming Gren wrote:
I would like to award a forum PVP win to Kaarous Aldurald, not only did he continue to try and explain to the OP he landed more than a few head shots in this round. Big smile

To the OP, the system that you talk about is not broken, just a few people are not taking advantage of itShocked. Just because a small group does not take advantage of the tools at their disposal does not make it broken. If they fail to study to learn about the tools from the numerous resources that does not make it anyone's fault but their own. I take ships away from people who fail to train and fit tanks, that does not mean the tanks are broken, but the person failed to train them, buy them, and fit them.

Your post reminds me of the whining that killed other games when Dev's gave in to it. Ie:
Wh1 "It's not fair that he can leap on me in a PVP area and I have no warning or consent to him jumping on me"
Re" You have a interrupt that is the tool we give you to stop people from leaping on you, and a knock back and his leap has a GCD"
Wh1 "I used the interrupt but it did not work"
Re"how did it now work?"
Wh1"there was six of them and only one of me, they should not be able to kill me in 2 secs"
RE "l2p"



Remind me again how Kill Rights work when a gang of cheap ganking ships collectively has more dps than any tank can handle and afterwards, when you want to get payback the ships are so cheap as to be a waste of time to shoot?

There is no single ship tank (on a ship appropriate for the mission) in the game that can handle ganking Thrashers x4-6 and the NPCs in an above average Level 4 in a 0.5 system (Concord is slow). None. There is no "L2Play" there is only L2Run as the gankers are immune until they get the opener. To use your analogy above, the interrupt is "broken" when the player attacked has to wait until overwhelming numbers get the opener on him to use it and they are immune until they attack. Well, guess what, it is then useless. A game that permits this, which is effectively griefing, tends to have very limited appeal/lifespan. Kill RIghts are not PVP but enabled griefing by those who know the exploits.

The system is *not* broken for the afk that refuse to fit even the most elementary tank with billions in cargo in their hold. Everyone knows that is just plain stupid. Kill Rights are broken when it comes to *their intended function* which is to limit ganking of players who are not AFK but just so happen to have a decent ship. Kill Rights are also broken when the only real way to avoid ever getting ganked is to fly a terrible ship so that no one envies the quality/expense of the mods. Nobody is immune unless they never leave the dock. No one. And don't pretend otherwise because anyone with real experience knows no one is immune to the gank if the gankers are committed enough.

Kill Rights have created a permanent class of ganker that is untouchable and only prevents the scrupulous from getting payback. Kill Rights only prevent players like me from ganking because I have goals in the game other than ganking and fly your standard Lvl4 fit ship which runs about $700 Million ISK and I don't want noobs to have KR on me.

Nothing you or anyone else has posted disproves this fact of current game mechanics. Anything else you have to post just indicates you have either not learned how to exploit Kill Rights to make you effectively immune to them like everyone else with a clue by using alts/permanent ganking toons or you are intentionally ignoring game reality.

As far as Kaarous goes....ROFL...if you can't see a guy who has to go from thread to thread calling people baddies to make himself feel better...well then you have my pity.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#254 - 2013-09-23 05:21:43 UTC
There is no single ship tank (on a ship appropriate for the mission) in the game that can handle ganking Thrashers x4-6 and the NPCs in an above average Level 4 in a 0.5 system (Concord is slow). None. There is no "L2Play" there is only L2Run as the gankers are immune until they get the opener. To use your analogy above, the interrupt is "broken" when the player attacked has to wait until overwhelming numbers get the opener on him to use it and they are immune until they attack. Well, guess what, it is then useless. A game that permits this, which is effectively griefing, tends to have very limited appeal/lifespan. Kill RIghts are not PVP but enabled griefing by those who know the exploits.

It is learn to play, no ship in eve or fit was ever designed to give you a god mode ship. If you are expecting that than it is clearly a L2P issue. Concord is not there to protect you, if it was they would attack the roid rats too, they are there to punish the law breakers and they do.

The interrupt is not broken if you are not using it right, it was designed to give you time to let concord arrive, or let you get away. If you Choose to stay (or shot back) that does not make it broken, just means your understanding of the game is. just as in my example, the interrupt worked, but was never designed to hold of 6 attackers, and no class was ever designed to hold of six attackers. If it was everyone would roll it (build it) and run around and PVP would never happen, it's called game breaking.

As for griefing, you need to look it up, EVE covers it well, and some games define it differently. Go check out the post it from the DEV's about bumping it defines what they call griefing and how it is a reportable offense.

"Kill Rights have created a permanent class of ganker that is untouchable and only prevents the scrupulous from getting payback. Kill Rights only prevent players like me from ganking because I have goals in the game other than ganking and fly your standard Lvl4 fit ship which runs about $700 Million ISK and I don't want noobs to have KR on me."

Kill rights did not do that, afk miners, hualers, with no tank in 200+m ships or with 2b+ in cargo created these people. Nothing you have said convinces anyone otherwise. You have a L2p issue (and I rarely say that).
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#255 - 2013-09-23 05:36:38 UTC
Yi-Ming Gren wrote:
There is no single ship tank (on a ship appropriate for the mission) in the game that can handle ganking Thrashers x4-6 and the NPCs in an above average Level 4 in a 0.5 system (Concord is slow). None. There is no "L2Play" there is only L2Run as the gankers are immune until they get the opener. To use your analogy above, the interrupt is "broken" when the player attacked has to wait until overwhelming numbers get the opener on him to use it and they are immune until they attack. Well, guess what, it is then useless. A game that permits this, which is effectively griefing, tends to have very limited appeal/lifespan. Kill RIghts are not PVP but enabled griefing by those who know the exploits.

It is learn to play, no ship in eve or fit was ever designed to give you a god mode ship. If you are expecting that than it is clearly a L2P issue. Concord is not there to protect you, if it was they would attack the roid rats too, they are there to punish the law breakers and they do.

The interrupt is not broken if you are not using it right, it was designed to give you time to let concord arrive, or let you get away. If you Choose to stay (or shot back) that does not make it broken, just means your understanding of the game is. just as in my example, the interrupt worked, but was never designed to hold of 6 attackers, and no class was ever designed to hold of six attackers. If it was everyone would roll it (build it) and run around and PVP would never happen, it's called game breaking.

As for griefing, you need to look it up, EVE covers it well, and some games define it differently. Go check out the post it from the DEV's about bumping it defines what they call griefing and how it is a reportable offense.

"Kill Rights have created a permanent class of ganker that is untouchable and only prevents the scrupulous from getting payback. Kill Rights only prevent players like me from ganking because I have goals in the game other than ganking and fly your standard Lvl4 fit ship which runs about $700 Million ISK and I don't want noobs to have KR on me."

Kill rights did not do that, afk miners, hualers, with no tank in 200+m ships or with 2b+ in cargo created these people. Nothing you have said convinces anyone otherwise. You have a L2p issue (and I rarely say that).


*snore*
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#256 - 2013-09-23 05:49:39 UTC
[/quote]

*snore*
[/quote]

So that is how you got ganked. Shocked
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#257 - 2013-09-23 08:00:48 UTC
Quote:
There is no single ship tank (on a ship appropriate for the mission) in the game that can handle ganking Thrashers x4-6


Why on earth do you think that a single player deserves to be able to defeat 4-6 other players without doing anything? Your ship would be pretty OP if it could, honestly. The fact that you cannot effortlessly tank 4-6 other players is a sign that there is at least a shred of game balance. And that what you are asking for, by the way. No effort. Because you are mining, so you are almost by definition afk.

And yeah, I gotcha, you hate the destroyer class of ships. They punch above their weight class.

They're supposed to. That is literally their function. So, TS about that.

Quote:
Remind me again how Kill Rights work when a gang of cheap ganking ships collectively has more dps than any tank can handle and afterwards, when you want to get payback the ships are so cheap as to be a waste of time to shoot?


They are still working just fine. You got killed, you get a kill in return. It's neither their fault nor the game's fault if you chose to fly an expensive ship and they fly cheap ones.

Like I said, your entire problem is a misconception that killrights are in any way intended to give you isk balance, as well as your feeling of entitlement to inflict equal isk losses just by virtue of having been killed in the first place. This isn't Kentucky civil court, hoss. You don't get to sue for regress of grievances when someone breaks a window in your car. You seem to feel that you should be allowed to get "cost of damages plus pain and suffering" and that's not how it works in EVE.

You know, I think I just nailed down what's wrong with every carebear's attitude. A combination of misconceptions about how the game is supposed to work, and a feeling of entitlement of some kind. Thus far it's present in every single one I have ever dealt with.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Yi-Ming Gren
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#258 - 2013-09-23 08:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Yi-Ming Gren
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
There is no single ship tank (on a ship appropriate for the mission) in the game that can handle ganking Thrashers x4-6


Why on earth do you think that a single player deserves to be able to defeat 4-6 other players without doing anything? Your ship would be pretty OP if it could, honestly. The fact that you cannot effortlessly tank 4-6 other players is a sign that there is at least a shred of game balance. And that what you are asking for, by the way. No effort. Because you are mining, so you are almost by definition afk.

And yeah, I gotcha, you hate the destroyer class of ships. They punch above their weight class.

They're supposed to. That is literally their function. So, TS about that.

Quote:
Remind me again how Kill Rights work when a gang of cheap ganking ships collectively has more dps than any tank can handle and afterwards, when you want to get payback the ships are so cheap as to be a waste of time to shoot?


They are still working just fine. You got killed, you get a kill in return. It's neither their fault nor the game's fault if you chose to fly an expensive ship and they fly cheap ones.

Like I said, your entire problem is a misconception that killrights are in any way intended to give you isk balance, as well as your feeling of entitlement to inflict equal isk losses just by virtue of having been killed in the first place. This isn't Kentucky civil court, hoss. You don't get to sue for regress of grievances when someone breaks a window in your car. You seem to feel that you should be allowed to get "cost of damages plus pain and suffering" and that's not how it works in EVE.

You know, I think I just nailed down what's wrong with every carebear's attitude. A combination of misconceptions about how the game is supposed to work, and a feeling of entitlement of some kind. Thus far it's present in every single one I have ever dealt with.


1 thumb up does not say enough. Completely correct on all counts.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#259 - 2013-09-23 09:56:08 UTC
Here, I thought up a perfect phrase to sum up how killrights works.

"CONCORD doesn't count isk, they count wrecks and bodies... but only for 30 days."

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#260 - 2013-09-23 13:05:55 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:

......The idea is to create more "emergent game play" so that there is more motivation to *actually use the Kill Right mechanism* because as it stands right now it is a waste of everyone's time......

.........What IS in dispute is whether Kill Rights work to punish dedicated gankers. Only those with a vested interest in ganking think it works......

......Not one post in this thread has provided the slightest evidence that Kill Rights work, while we all agree Kill Rights only prevent otherwise reputable characters from having a ganking fling.....


Ok man.. I think you are misunderstanding what a killright is for. I fly in lowsec, so this may differ a bit (but not TOO much). A killright gives the attacker a tactical advantage. It does not mean you will emerge victorious, and it is not intended as a punishment for anyone. It gives you the ability to take the first shot.

Now, as for your point of no evidence that KR's work, I have an example of HOW they can be used to your advantage:

My corpmate pops this guy in his exploration ship and pods him. So he gets a killright on my corpie for 30 days, whatever. Dude who got popped comes back with a few buddies the next day, and we engage them about 100k off station, flying cruisers to their dessies/crusiers. 4 v 3 us. Anyhow, they were smart about it. They waited for us to get close and then activated the killright and started their attack. This allowed them to engage WITHOUT taking the station guns. Not realizing the killright activated, the rest of my corp (including myself) attacked them, and aggressed the station guns. We got wiped out because they were smart about the useage of the killright. It enabled them to destroy 4 decently priced cruisers with relative ease. The system DOES work, it just is not intended to be used in the context that you want it to be.

Thinking constructively, the only way you will counter gankers is to fly with a fleet. Use ECM or TD. Pay attention to the signs in local. Use DSCAN, ect. If your flying a noncombat ship, keep it aligned. Its very possible to escape if your smart about it. After you show them they arent going to get an easy pick off of you, they will most likely move on to another target.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment