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Drone assist "Exploit"

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Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2013-09-21 18:06:42 UTC
Also I might like to add, misrepresenting me with failed quote butchering out of context is bad form. Please do not do it any more.

Quote entire sentences or quote none of it.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-21 18:06:50 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

But the exploit notice is specifically set to drones. Which is what we are talking about.


Of course. Drones are the only weapons system that can be used to damage other ships while inside a pos-shield.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#63 - 2013-09-21 18:08:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
Name calling will get you nowhere with me Tippia.
Good thing I didn't try it, then.

Quote:
But drones work differently.
Because they are different.
…but are still supposed to work the same as all other weapon (and support) system in how they interact with POS shields. Specifically, they're not supposed to work when your ship is inside one. At the moment, the mechanics work in such a way that drones can do things they're not supposed to do — this is what has been deemed an exploit.

Quote:
That drones are drones and are the topic of the exploit.
Not other weapons.
No-one has said that drones are other weapons. What has been said is that they are a weapon system, and that they are supposed to work under the same restrictions as all the other weapon (and support) systems.

Again, if you want to employ your ship's weapons in battle, that ship is supposed to be exposed to return-fire, not stowed away safely where it can't be attacked. The fact that you can avoid this tit-for-tat exposure to enemy fire is what the exploit notification is meant to fix, at least until they can implement mechanics to enforce it the way it does for all other weapon systems.

Oh, and if other weapon systems were to suddenly behave in a way that let you employ them while sitting behind a POS shield, that would also be an exploit of the exact same kind as the one that has been declared for the particular weapon system that are drones.

Quote:
Nope.
Just drones. CCP Falcon is usually pretty specific and on target with what he means.
Are you implying he is wrong?
Since I didn't contradict or dispute any of what he said, it would be pretty hard for me to imply any such thing.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#64 - 2013-09-21 18:10:35 UTC
What are you smoking Murk Paradox? Drones are a weapon system and it's been deemed an exploit to use them in this way. What about that is so hard to understand?

I don't think you're actually playing dumb in this regard, if that helps.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2013-09-21 18:12:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Murk Paradox
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Name calling will get you nowhere with me Tippia.
Good thing I didn't try it, then.

Quote:
But drones work differently.
Because they are different.
…but are still supposed to work the same as all other weapon (and support) system in how they interact with POS shields. Specifically, they're not supposed to work when your ship is inside one. At the moment, the mechanics work in such a way that drones can do things they're not supposed to do — this is what has been deemed an exploit.

Quote:
That drones are drones and are the topic of the exploit.
Not other weapons.
No-one has said that drones are other weapons. What has been said is that they are a weapon system, and that they are supposed to work under the same restrictions as all the other weapon (and support) systems.

Again, if you want to employ your ship's weapons in battle, that ship is supposed to be exposed to return-fire, not stowed away safely where it can't be attacked. The fact that you can avoid this tit-for-tat exposure to enemy fire is what the exploit notification is meant to fix, at least until they can implement mechanics to enforce it the way it does for all other weapon systems.

Oh, and if other weapon systems were to suddenly behave in a way that let you employ them while sitting behind a POS shield, that would also be an exploit of the exact same kind as the one that has been declared for the particular weapon system that are drones.



You need to get your facts straight.

They either are or they are not.

If you want to include both, the second is not needed since we are talking about drones.

Not weapons.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-09-21 18:16:40 UTC
Mag's wrote:
What are you smoking Murk Paradox? Drones are a weapon system and it's been deemed an exploit to use them in this way. What about that is so hard to understand?

I don't think you're actually playing dumb in this regard, if that helps.



I'm not posting any lack of understanding.

I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#67 - 2013-09-21 18:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
You need to get your facts straight.
Not really, no.

The fact is that if you want to employ your ship's weapons in battle, that ship is supposed to be exposed to return-fire, not stowed away safely where it can't be attacked. Hence the inability to fire turrets and launchers and ewar and remote support modules from inside a shield. Hence the change in fleet boosting from inside a POS shield. Hence the change in allowing drones to attack or support other ships while you stay safely inside a POS shield.

The fact is that all this exploit notice does is say that drones are supposed to work like all other weapon (and support) systems — working around this limitations is an exploit.

Quote:
I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.
…a notion that only exists in your head.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-09-21 18:20:19 UTC
Also another reason saying drones are just a weapons system is based on the fact drones have more than 1 function.

They can repair and ewar as well.

They are nothing like a missile, they are nothing like a laser. They are nothing like any projectile.

They are like.. well, a drone.

Little small entities that you control.

Unlike any other weapon.

Yes they can be referred to as a "weapon system". But in this case in this thread, we are talking about using them as a drone.

Not a weapon.

Because although you cannot assign ecm drones to assist/guard, I'm pretty sure using them and darting back into the safety of a pos shield would also be classified as an exploit.

Even with 0 combat being used by the originating pilot.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#69 - 2013-09-21 18:21:37 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

But the exploit notice is specifically set to drones. Which is what we are talking about.

Of course. Drones are the only weapons system that can be used to damage other ships while inside a pos-shield.

How delightful.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#70 - 2013-09-21 18:22:48 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:

They can repair and ewar as well.


Indeed. Two other things that players can't do from inside the POS forcefield.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2013-09-21 18:25:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
You need to get your facts straight.
Not really, no.

The fact is that if you want to employ your ship's weapons in battle, that ship is supposed to be exposed to return-fire, not stowed away safely where it can't be attacked. Hence the inability to fire turrets and launchers and ewar and remote support modules from inside a shield. Hence the change in fleet boosting from inside a POS shield. Hence the change in allowing drones to support other ships from inside a POS shield.

The fact is that all this exploit notice does is say that drones are supposed to work like all other weapon (and support) systems — working around this limitations is an exploit.

Quote:
I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.
…a notion that only exists in your head.


My head? CCP Falcon is the one who said it, not me.

You're the one trying to include other weapon systems by miss classifying the drones.

Just keep it simple and use drones. Since that's what the exploit notice specifically says.

I do not know why you must argue it, but that's between you and CCP.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-09-21 18:26:12 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

They can repair and ewar as well.


Indeed. Two other things that players can't do from inside the POS forcefield.




Mmmm, citation needed. I admittedly have not used any of my logi drones while inside a pos shield to rep another so do not know if they work inside or not. I think they do though.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#73 - 2013-09-21 18:27:31 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

They can repair and ewar as well.


Indeed. Two other things that players can't do from inside the POS forcefield.




Mmmm, citation needed. I admittedly have not used any of my logi drones while inside a pos shield to rep another so do not know if they work inside or not. I think they do though.


Citation for what? That players cannot use repair and ewar modules from inside the forcefield? Surely you're not that ignorant of game mechanics.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2013-09-21 18:28:29 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

They can repair and ewar as well.


Indeed. Two other things that players can't do from inside the POS forcefield.




Mmmm, citation needed. I admittedly have not used any of my logi drones while inside a pos shield to rep another so do not know if they work inside or not. I think they do though.


Nope.

You cannot lock targets from inside a POS.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-09-21 18:28:52 UTC
I do also warrant that the notice allows for other metas such as instead of using drones to assist a pilot... you can send the drones through a far range (such as like say... 150km+) and on their way back in after recalling them get into the safety of a pos as to not receive "return fire".

Which would not be an exploit, but would be exploiting the current mechanic.

Simply because you are not using the assist function.

So yes, I like being clear.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#76 - 2013-09-21 18:29:04 UTC
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What are you smoking Murk Paradox? Drones are a weapon system and it's been deemed an exploit to use them in this way. What about that is so hard to understand?

I don't think you're actually playing dumb in this regard, if that helps.



I'm not posting any lack of understanding.

I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.
No one has said otherwise in this thread, except you.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2013-09-21 18:32:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:

They can repair and ewar as well.


Indeed. Two other things that players can't do from inside the POS forcefield.




Mmmm, citation needed. I admittedly have not used any of my logi drones while inside a pos shield to rep another so do not know if they work inside or not. I think they do though.


Nope.

You cannot lock targets from inside a POS.



So if you come into the pos while I'm in it as well I cannot target you?

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#78 - 2013-09-21 18:32:22 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What are you smoking Murk Paradox? Drones are a weapon system and it's been deemed an exploit to use them in this way. What about that is so hard to understand?

I don't think you're actually playing dumb in this regard, if that helps.



I'm not posting any lack of understanding.

I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.
No one has said otherwise in this thread, except you.


Pretty sure Murk bales his own hay for the amount of strawmen he uses.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-09-21 18:33:16 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Murk Paradox wrote:
Mag's wrote:
What are you smoking Murk Paradox? Drones are a weapon system and it's been deemed an exploit to use them in this way. What about that is so hard to understand?

I don't think you're actually playing dumb in this regard, if that helps.



I'm not posting any lack of understanding.

I'm dissolving the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones.
No one has said otherwise in this thread, except you.



That is way too vague to even bother trying to assume you are entering a conversation for other than a mob mentality.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#80 - 2013-09-21 18:33:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Murk Paradox wrote:
My head? CCP Falcon is the one who said it, not me.
No. You are the one who keeps saying that this notion exists. Falcon certainly did not, since he was only talking about drones. I'm not since I'm only talking about why this is an exploit when using drones.

So yes, the notion that the exploit includes anything other than drones is just something you've invented in order to have something to “dissolve”. It did not exist before you brought it up.

Quote:
You're the one trying to include other weapon systems by miss classifying the drones.
No. I'm the one pointing out that what this exploit notification does is to point out that drones are supposed to work the same as all other weapon systems — i.e. if you want to employ them, your ship has to be exposed to return-fire.

Quote:
Just keep it simple and use drones.
You need more than the thing itself to prove that something belongs to a larger category. So just using drones to demonstrate the behaviours and limitations that are shared by all weapon (and support) systems, while simple, would be a completely empty and meaningless gesture that demonstrated nothing.