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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[ISODE] Live coverage of the Mantenault Referendum
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Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#61 - 2013-09-19 20:12:57 UTC
Marnian Veroe wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
I would humbly suggest that any involvement by another Federal entity, registered or not, be undertaken after the FIO has issued its report. Then said involvement be reviewed, in minimum, by the District Parliament should permission from the "elected" planetary government be granted.


Too late. Didn't you read? The Elusenians have 'boots on the ground' already.


Elusenian boots are not welcome on our soil.


Interesting. Time for Civil Disobedience? Or more strenuous objections?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-19 21:42:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
I had a more detailed answer that took quite some time to write but Galnet wasn't very nice to me. I'm a busy man and regret to inform you that I can't rewrite it, as much as I would like to. But pretty much everything wrong with what you're saying can summed up here.

Jake Favre wrote:

You try to imply that sociocrats control the Black Eagles through Blaque, and yet you fail to notice that Blaque answers to the president.


Blaque controls the Black Eagles and the Sociocrats, which means he can use the Black Eagles to promote his political interest. Which he is certainly doing.

And you are correct, Blaque answers to the President, our Ultra-Nationalist President. Starting to click now?

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Jake Favre
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-09-19 21:45:26 UTC
Ohhh right !

I am sorry. I forgot my tinfoil hat.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-09-19 22:15:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Jake Favre wrote:
Ohhh right !

I am sorry. I forgot my tinfoil hat.


Don't you think that would be too cumbersome? You're already wearing a slave collar, blinders, a muzzle, and ear plugs. Adding a tinfoil hat on top of all of that would just be silly!

Another five years of Sociocrat and U-Nat nonsense and we'll be living in the Roden Federation, with Roden Shipyards making all space faring vessels, RodenDron providing our drones, Roden Labs building your blasters, and of course, all the Quafe girls having shaved heads in honor of their Führer.

But of course, you're going to completely ignore what's already blatantly obvious and blame Foiritan in typical Sociocrat fashion.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Ailer Stane
Doomheim
#65 - 2013-09-20 01:03:57 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Earlier today, the Elusenian Agora approved the Directorate's proposal to send electoral administrators to Mantenault VI for the purposes of independently facilitating a re-run of the referendum that took place a week ago. The ESS Rosmerta, a Viator-class transport captained by myself, was sent by the Cooperative Republic of Elusenia, ferrying an undisclosed number of administrators from relevant Sub-Directorates, as well as a security attache.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
I would humbly suggest that any involvement by another Federal entity, registered or not, be undertaken after the FIO has issued its report. Then said involvement be reviewed, in minimum, by the District Parliament should permission from the "elected" planetary government be granted.


Too late. Didn't you read? The Elusenians have 'boots on the ground' already.

Thank you Mr. Tuulinen for directing my attention.

On what or by whose authority are the Elusenians acting? As I understand it they are little more than an unrecognized corporate entity playing at statehood. Their involvement is an outrage to planetary self determination and I encourage that any electoral result garnered through their interference be ignored as illegitimate.

I have forwarded a complaint to the Federal Administration's Electoral Commission. I hope they respond with vigor.
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
#66 - 2013-09-20 01:30:13 UTC
Ailer Stane wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Earlier today, the Elusenian Agora approved the Directorate's proposal to send electoral administrators to Mantenault VI for the purposes of independently facilitating a re-run of the referendum that took place a week ago. The ESS Rosmerta, a Viator-class transport captained by myself, was sent by the Cooperative Republic of Elusenia, ferrying an undisclosed number of administrators from relevant Sub-Directorates, as well as a security attache.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
I would humbly suggest that any involvement by another Federal entity, registered or not, be undertaken after the FIO has issued its report. Then said involvement be reviewed, in minimum, by the District Parliament should permission from the "elected" planetary government be granted.


Too late. Didn't you read? The Elusenians have 'boots on the ground' already.

Thank you Mr. Tuulinen for directing my attention.

On what or by whose authority are the Elusenians acting? As I understand it they are little more than an unrecognized corporate entity playing at statehood. Their involvement is an outrage to planetary self determination and I encourage that any electoral result garnered through their interference be ignored as illegitimate.

I have forwarded a complaint to the Federal Administration's Electoral Commission. I hope they respond with vigor.


M. Stane, the Elusenians are on Mantenault with the blessing of the majority of parties in the NAG, and are otherwise there with the legitimacy that those larger institutions endow as representatives of general political opinion where usual circumstances to gauge such popularity has been disabled.

This planet has 'self-determined' to use the assistance of the Elusenians in getting their government back on track. Please cease your attempts to further destabilize this colony.
Ailer Stane
Doomheim
#67 - 2013-09-20 01:55:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ailer Stane
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Earlier today, the Elusenian Agora approved the Directorate's proposal to send electoral administrators to Mantenault VI for the purposes of independently facilitating a re-run of the referendum that took place a week ago. The ESS Rosmerta, a Viator-class transport captained by myself, was sent by the Cooperative Republic of Elusenia, ferrying an undisclosed number of administrators from relevant Sub-Directorates, as well as a security attache.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
I would humbly suggest that any involvement by another Federal entity, registered or not, be undertaken after the FIO has issued its report. Then said involvement be reviewed, in minimum, by the District Parliament should permission from the "elected" planetary government be granted.


Too late. Didn't you read? The Elusenians have 'boots on the ground' already.

Thank you Mr. Tuulinen for directing my attention.

On what or by whose authority are the Elusenians acting? As I understand it they are little more than an unrecognized corporate entity playing at statehood. Their involvement is an outrage to planetary self determination and I encourage that any electoral result garnered through their interference be ignored as illegitimate.

I have forwarded a complaint to the Federal Administration's Electoral Commission. I hope they respond with vigor.


M. Stane, the Elusenians are on Mantenault with the blessing of the majority of parties in the NAG, and are otherwise there with the legitimacy that those larger institutions endow as representatives of general political opinion where usual circumstances to gauge such popularity has been disabled.

This planet has 'self-determined' to use the assistance of the Elusenians in getting their government back on track. Please cease your attempts to further destabilize this colony.

It is regrettable that you use so many words to say so little.

I congratulate you on your mastery of the language of politics.

Honest people will be watching the re-results of this re-election.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#68 - 2013-09-20 02:42:23 UTC
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Earlier today, the Elusenian Agora approved the Directorate's proposal to send electoral administrators to Mantenault VI for the purposes of independently facilitating a re-run of the referendum that took place a week ago. The ESS Rosmerta, a Viator-class transport captained by myself, was sent by the Cooperative Republic of Elusenia, ferrying an undisclosed number of administrators from relevant Sub-Directorates, as well as a security attache.

Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Ailer Stane wrote:
I would humbly suggest that any involvement by another Federal entity, registered or not, be undertaken after the FIO has issued its report. Then said involvement be reviewed, in minimum, by the District Parliament should permission from the "elected" planetary government be granted.


Too late. Didn't you read? The Elusenians have 'boots on the ground' already.

Thank you Mr. Tuulinen for directing my attention.

On what or by whose authority are the Elusenians acting? As I understand it they are little more than an unrecognized corporate entity playing at statehood. Their involvement is an outrage to planetary self determination and I encourage that any electoral result garnered through their interference be ignored as illegitimate.

I have forwarded a complaint to the Federal Administration's Electoral Commission. I hope they respond with vigor.


M. Stane, the Elusenians are on Mantenault with the blessing of the majority of parties in the NAG, and are otherwise there with the legitimacy that those larger institutions endow as representatives of general political opinion where usual circumstances to gauge such popularity has been disabled.

This planet has 'self-determined' to use the assistance of the Elusenians in getting their government back on track. Please cease your attempts to further destabilize this colony.


Out of curiosity, the majority of the parties? Or the parties the majority of the people voted in favor of?

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#69 - 2013-09-20 04:06:15 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Blaque controls the Black Eagles and the Sociocrats, which means he can use the Black Eagles to promote his political interest. Which he is certainly doing.

And you are correct, Blaque answers to the President, our Ultra-Nationalist President. Starting to click now?


An ultra-nationalist leader who uses a paramilitary group they have total control over against their own citizens?

Did you steal that idea from the Caldari or did they steal it from you?

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#70 - 2013-09-20 04:07:29 UTC
Perhaps we learned it from our allies, Makkal?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2013-09-20 11:01:47 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Blaque controls the Black Eagles and the Sociocrats, which means he can use the Black Eagles to promote his political interest. Which he is certainly doing.

And you are correct, Blaque answers to the President, our Ultra-Nationalist President. Starting to click now?


An ultra-nationalist leader who uses a paramilitary group they have total control over against their own citizens?

Did you steal that idea from the Caldari or did they steal it from you?


Well it's been a while since we were a dystopian society completely controlled by our government yet too decadant and hedonistic to care. I suppose Heth's rise to power made us want to try it out again.

To be fair to Roden, things have been going pretty well so far. I just worry about the long term implications of his policies.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Seriphyn Inhonores
Elusenian Cooperative
#72 - 2013-09-20 12:14:25 UTC
Mentas Blaque resigned from the Senate three years ago. While one can presume he still has ties to the Sociocrats, he no longer has any official control.
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-09-20 13:16:24 UTC
Seriphyn Inhonores wrote:
Mentas Blaque resigned from the Senate three years ago. While one can presume he still has ties to the Sociocrats, he no longer has any official control.


His resignation is irrelevant, he was still the Sociocrat presidential canidate and it looks like he will be for the next election. Presidential candidates are naturally, the defacto leader of their party. If I'm correct the Federal constitution states that the President actually is the leader of their party.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Marnian Veroe
National Republican Party
#74 - 2013-09-20 21:06:52 UTC
Laurentis Thiesant wrote:

M. Stane, the Elusenians are on Mantenault with the blessing of the majority of parties in the NAG, and are otherwise there with the legitimacy that those larger institutions endow as representatives of general political opinion where usual circumstances to gauge such popularity has been disabled.

This planet has 'self-determined' to use the assistance of the Elusenians in getting their government back on track. Please cease your attempts to further destabilize this colony.



That is truly astounding. On one hand you progressives withdraw from the NAG and stop recognizing its legitimacy, and on the other hand you still lean heavily on the same NAG to point at the legitimacy of the Elusenian presence. Could you be consistent for once ?

Yes indeed, democracy, but only when it suits you.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#75 - 2013-09-20 21:46:22 UTC
I, for one, have found this entire topic a real eye-opener. I'd like to thank you all for being so transparent regarding the true functioning of a representative democracy.

Also interesting that the Elusenians' first act in the wider cluster has been deploying to a contested system in the warzone as 'peacekeepers' with contentious support from the local population - something they might have accused US of doing!

Only violent demonstrations could possibly have made this object lesson more complete.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#76 - 2013-09-20 22:19:14 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I, for one, have found this entire topic a real eye-opener. I'd like to thank you all for being so transparent regarding the true functioning of a representative democracy.

Also interesting that the Elusenians' first act in the wider cluster has been deploying to a contested system in the warzone as 'peacekeepers' with contentious support from the local population - something they might have accused US of doing!

Only violent demonstrations could possibly have made this object lesson more complete.


My father likes to say that governments, even democracies, are just the faces that nations plaster on the front of their guns. I have a feeling that if we all had a completely free press that readily jumped through our spaces, we would find out that we share almost all of the problems we have. It would probably be harder to think of each other as monsters.

Until then, the only way to arrive at that state of being is to travel and see those places for yourself.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#77 - 2013-09-20 22:58:02 UTC
Thanks for the platitude. I do plenty of travelling, thank you.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Laurentis Thiesant
Institute of Social Development
#78 - 2013-09-21 07:17:11 UTC
Voting has commenced on Mantenault and will continue until 1400 hrs tonight.
Ollie Rundle
#79 - 2013-09-21 07:45:05 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
I had a more detailed answer that took quite some time to write but Galnet wasn't very nice to me. I'm a busy man and regret to inform you that I can't rewrite it, as much as I would like to. But pretty much everything wrong with what you're saying can summed up here.

Jake Favre wrote:

You try to imply that sociocrats control the Black Eagles through Blaque, and yet you fail to notice that Blaque answers to the president.


Blaque controls the Black Eagles and the Sociocrats, which means he can use the Black Eagles to promote his political interest. Which he is certainly doing.

And you are correct, Blaque answers to the President, our Ultra-Nationalist President. Starting to click now?


I might well have missed the press release. Could you point me to where Roden has formally declared his support and/or membership of the Ultra-Nationalist party?

Fredfredbug4 wrote:
If I'm correct the Federal constitution states that the President actually is the leader of their party.


Again, I've been unable to find any documentation to support this statement as fact.

It would be interesting, however, if both of those assertions were found to be true as it would suggest that Roden - an extremely powerful political figure whose "big personality" style of presidency has continued to develop on and push forward the socially-orientated, progressive policies of his predecessor - is actually the leader of the U-Nats, a party who in modern times is one of the least influential and under-represented political groups within the Federation.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-09-21 09:59:25 UTC

ATTENTION, CITIZENS!

Since 16 Sep YC 115 control over Mantenault belongs to the State.
Democratic elections has no more power on the planet, and proper meritocratic leadership should be set up already.
This farce with voting has to stop. Otherwise, it will be treated as a civil unrest and a threat to peace and prosperity of both the planet and the State.

If this threat will persist, culprits and self-proclaimed democratic leadership will be removed from the face of the planet with precise orbital bombardment strikes.

Only the merited must rule.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.