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Drones Assist Mechanic Question/Thought
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Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#81 - 2013-09-21 00:52:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
it's totally unfair that ccp declared an exploit that allows you to engage in a fight without being at risk an exploit

clearly, ccp works against you

Stop twisting my words. I am talking about the mechanic drone assist and nothing else. You keep bringing up a POS exploit and proclaiming I support the use is such an exploit. Stop lying.

Enough with the straw man already.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#82 - 2013-09-21 01:00:56 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Andski wrote:


tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

How many bombs does it take to kill a sentry drone?


"you should be able to take part in a fight while only putting a flight of sentries at risk" - you

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2013-09-21 01:04:13 UTC
this is why your coalition is garbage and only good as a buffer for ncdot/pl renters

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2013-09-21 01:09:25 UTC
Andski wrote:

tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

lol, s2n


Come on man...all you have to do is reinforce the POS and then come back when the timer is up and kill the POS and those ships will be vulnerable. Perfectly reasonable.

Can somebody from N3 tell me how to make my ishtar have the EHP of a large POS in EFT?

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#85 - 2013-09-21 01:12:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Andski wrote:


tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

How many bombs does it take to kill a sentry drone?


"you should be able to take part in a fight while only putting a flight of sentries at risk" - you


"straw man" -you
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#86 - 2013-09-21 01:37:46 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

Alpha fleet still relies on people working in unison and has a long cycle time between targets as a detriment. That cycle time also means a single screw up can ripple down the chain of targets pulling them further out of sync and potentially catching reps. This can be further exploited by jamming/scan res damping only a portion of the fleet while optimal range/tracking disrupting the rest. No fleet should have EWAR immunity by simply switching drone bunny and remote sebo's to the one guy not being affected and apply full dps.

Sentries have a high rate of fire and don't rely on single shot damage to drop a target. It's more the fact of scrolling back and forth through an overview and broadcasting reps as soon as a single person starts yellow boxing you that bothers me. At least bringing a hundred celestis requires user input and coordination from players to neuter enemy logistics. At least when Alpha fleet primaries you, you get some ample warning what's about to happen and a chance to overheat hardeners/warp out. If you miss the one yellow box from a drone bunny with 250 sentries assigned you just suddenly take tons of damage and by then it's too late to react.

I don't mind the unified trigger so much as the fact the drone boat doesn't need to lock its target. In fact, it doesn't even need to be capable of locking the target. It can apply dps out to 200+ KM with a 90k lock range. I think forcing the drone boat to lock the target for assisted sentry drones to fire would resolve much of the issue people have with it. At least with other drones there's travel time involved, letting you know you're about to take massive damage. Even bombs have a 10 second flight time letting you pull drones and otherwise react. Even if you manage to have the drones (smart)bombed the effect is limited as carrier support lets you refit additional drones - the drone bay size is not effectively a limit on a large scale encounter.


Can't overheat Drones.
Can destroy drones without destroying the launching ship.
Sentry Drones don't move.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#87 - 2013-09-21 01:42:21 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Andski wrote:

tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

lol, s2n

Come on man...all you have to do is reinforce the POS and then come back when the timer is up and kill the POS and those ships will be vulnerable. Perfectly reasonable.

Can somebody from N3 tell me how to make my ishtar have the EHP of a large POS in EFT?

Does EFT even handle reinforce timers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#88 - 2013-09-23 17:44:19 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Andski wrote:


tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

How many bombs does it take to kill ahundreds of sentry drones spread around a 70 KM diamater sphere?

FYP.

Irrelevant, because they can just drop more poking out of various points around the bubble to replenish them. Also, being in a POS, they can refill the drone bay until they literally run out of however many drones they stockpiled before the fight. Unless you don't hell bubble the POS, in which case they can just ferry more in to resupply until they run out of money.

Alavaria Fera wrote:
Are there any other tricks you can do in a pos

You can always sit a few hundred meters from the pos bubble with AB on and duck in the shield when you get primaried. Just don't forget to recall or abandon sentries first, I hear that causes bad things to happen.

Unless they use a drone assist doctrine too, because then you can't tell at all when 1200 dudes are about to volley you out of nowhere. Who needs Celestis anyway? Just reship the noobs into warden vexors or something.

Kitty Bear wrote:


Can't overheat Drones.
Can destroy drones without destroying the launching ship.
Sentry Drones don't move.



Don't have to reload drones.
But you can reload drones!
When you launch a thousand rounds of Antimatter it doesn't follow you to the next system either.

Show me another weapon system that doesn't require locking a target (or even being capable of locking it before ewar is applied!) and scales up to a full 255 man fleet and beyond. (Hint: It's not bombs)

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#89 - 2013-09-23 18:19:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Georgina Parmala wrote:


When you launch a thousand rounds of Antimatter it doesn't follow you to the next system either.

Show me another weapon system that doesn't require locking a target (or even being capable of locking it before ewar is applied!) and scales up to a full 255 man fleet and beyond. (Hint: It's not bombs)


That's Fighters ... Fighters are manned and therefore not Drones.
Fighters are also not launched from Battleships.


Hmmm that's tricky .. oh wait no it isn't ...



Show me another ship that can have it's primary weapon system destroyed, without the ship itself being damaged that is not a drone boat.

CCP have already stated which aspect of the 'drone assist' command is classed as an exploit ... all other uses fall under the 'emergent gameplay' category ... It's not like it's hard to counter.

[edit]
There is another weapon system in the game, that effectively uses no ammunition either.
Tech 1 Crystals never degrade, and are therefore infinite
Guess we need to bring that oversight to CCP's attention too, get those Amarrians nerfed with their free laser shows.
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#90 - 2013-09-23 18:44:05 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

yes but in a sentry drone fleet only the fc has to press a button, and all the sentries fire at the same time, this is the problem


that should be the last word really. its kinda cheap and takes away from the social side of the game. you shouldnt be able to fire your friends ships guns.

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#91 - 2013-09-23 18:56:20 UTC
Drones are not guns
Drones are remotely controlled weapons platforms
They have guns fitted to them


It's a subtle distinction, I can see why it could confuse you.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2013-09-23 18:57:45 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

yes but in a sentry drone fleet only the fc has to press a button, and all the sentries fire at the same time, this is the problem

that should be the last word really. its kinda cheap and takes away from the social side of the game. you shouldnt be able to fire your friends ships guns.

When goons finally learned to synchronize F1 pressing, someone realized you could just assign drones.

CFC: Forever behind the curve in elite pvp skills

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#93 - 2013-09-23 19:13:04 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

yes but in a sentry drone fleet only the fc has to press a button, and all the sentries fire at the same time, this is the problem

that should be the last word really. its kinda cheap and takes away from the social side of the game. you shouldnt be able to fire your friends ships guns.

When goons finally learned to synchronize F1 pressing, someone realized you could just assign drones.

CFC: Forever behind the curve in elite pvp skills


The real question is what will they do when you guys finally learn to assist your sentries while useing your already trained gallente battleship skill from the baltec fleet to fly domi.

Technically they will turn to bombers because they keep saying it's an efficient counter so tell the higher ups to also start plannign an anti bomber doctrine to counter thier counter.
Ciaphas Cyne
Moira.
#94 - 2013-09-23 19:22:35 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Drones are not guns
Drones are remotely controlled weapons platforms
They have guns fitted to them


It's a subtle distinction, I can see why it could confuse you.


i have one piece of cheese on the plate. i also have one piece of cheese on top of a sandwich. how many pieces of cheese do i have? do i still have a sandwich if i remove the cheese from it?

think about these questions for a little and then get back to me on your /trollfail

"buff only the stuff I fly and nerf everything else"

  • you
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#95 - 2013-09-23 19:50:12 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Andski wrote:

tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

lol, s2n


Come on man...all you have to do is reinforce the POS and then come back when the timer is up and kill the POS and those ships will be vulnerable. Perfectly reasonable.

Can somebody from N3 tell me how to make my ishtar have the EHP of a large POS in EFT?


Use Pyfa and edit a 3 trillion mm plate in the module database then fit it to your ishtar.

Making up new module is not any more stupid than beliving some weapon system should be usable while your ship is safe behind a POS shield anyway.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#96 - 2013-09-23 20:25:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
ahahaha yeah let's call straight up exploiting "being creative"

if we did that you and the chaff that make up your dumpster grade coalition would be bawwwing all over the forums about the big bad goon exploits



That's how bumping was allowed.

/shrug

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#97 - 2013-09-23 20:29:05 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Andski wrote:


tell us more about countering ships in a pos shield

How many bombs does it take to kill ahundreds of sentry drones spread around a 70 KM diamater sphere?

FYP.

Irrelevant, because they can just drop more poking out of various points around the bubble to replenish them. Also, being in a POS, they can refill the drone bay until they literally run out of however many drones they stockpiled before the fight. Unless you don't hell bubble the POS, in which case they can just ferry more in to resupply until they run out of money.



So out of curiosity... if you kept a few snipers out of range of the sentry drones and moved the fleet to the other side of the pos....

That wouldn't work to adapt? Hell, you can warp through a pos. Perch points aren't hard to figure out or re make.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2013-09-23 20:30:11 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:


Show me another weapon system that doesn't require locking a target (or even being capable of locking it before ewar is applied!) and scales up to a full 255 man fleet and beyond. (Hint: It's not bombs)



Hurray FOF missiles!

Oh wait.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2013-09-23 20:31:14 UTC
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

yes but in a sentry drone fleet only the fc has to press a button, and all the sentries fire at the same time, this is the problem


that should be the last word really. its kinda cheap and takes away from the social side of the game. you shouldnt be able to fire your friends ships guns.



Nerf isboxer!

Wrong thread btw sir.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2013-09-23 20:32:33 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ciaphas Cyne wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

yes but in a sentry drone fleet only the fc has to press a button, and all the sentries fire at the same time, this is the problem

that should be the last word really. its kinda cheap and takes away from the social side of the game. you shouldnt be able to fire your friends ships guns.

When goons finally learned to synchronize F1 pressing, someone realized you could just assign drones.

CFC: Forever behind the curve in elite pvp skills


The real question is what will they do when you guys finally learn to assist your sentries while useing your already trained gallente battleship skill from the baltec fleet to fly domi.

Technically they will turn to bombers because they keep saying it's an efficient counter so tell the higher ups to also start plannign an anti bomber doctrine to counter thier counter.



Smartbomb battleship to the rescuuuuuue!

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.