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Drones Assist Mechanic Question/Thought
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Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#21 - 2013-09-20 16:22:16 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Andski wrote:
"don't nerf drone assist, we need more skill dependent counters to the blob like drone assist. clearly, the blob can't use these things themselves"


I bet drone assist sympathizers would change their tune in a hurry if goons dropped 1000 dominix on them instead of 1000 megas CoolCoolCool
Rather, I think we'd realise that 1000 battleships would win either way.
And not by any close margins.

Besides, Andski is making up stuff to pull out his rectum to claim as quotes, don't put too much into it.
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#22 - 2013-09-20 16:26:37 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Andski wrote:
"don't nerf drone assist, we need more skill dependent counters to the blob like drone assist. clearly, the blob can't use these things themselves"


I bet drone assist sympathizers would change their tune in a hurry if goons dropped 1000 dominix on them instead of 1000 megas CoolCoolCool
Rather, I think we'd realise that 1000 battleships would win either way.
And not by any close margins.

Besides, Andski is making up stuff to pull out his rectum to claim as quotes, don't put too much into it.


Except they would no longer need 1000 battleships any longer, but maybe 100-150 or so with a handful of triage Cool
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#23 - 2013-09-20 16:53:27 UTC
+1 to OP.

I don’t like it !! It’s boring as hell!! EFFICIENT! But boring.

This being said, I believe CCP should "reflect" on how they could make fleet fights more dynamic for regular squad members. Without removing the need of an FC, there should be a way to make the outcome of battle more dependent on the performance of both team's squad members, and less on the FCs. And I am not talking about squad members that simply follow orders (like anchor, warp there, align to, shoot broadcast)....but in the ability TO DECIDE how to fly their ships in the middle of a fight and WHO to shoot at. Specially in large fights. Being an "F1 monkey" or "assist your drones and forget", both are not fun, and BOTH should go.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2013-09-20 17:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-09-20 18:01:00 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Andski wrote:
"don't nerf drone assist, we need more skill dependent counters to the blob like drone assist. clearly, the blob can't use these things themselves"


I bet drone assist sympathizers would change their tune in a hurry if goons dropped 1000 dominix on them instead of 1000 megas CoolCoolCool



That's when we reship into bombers.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Laserak
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-09-20 18:11:34 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas


The newbees/low SP players used to fly blackbirds until they were nerfed. What pray tell do you think the newbees should fly if not celestis?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-09-20 18:37:37 UTC
he doesn't think newbies/low SP players should be useful at all

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#28 - 2013-09-20 18:42:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
he doesn't think newbies/low SP players should be useful at all
But blatantly making up stuff and attributing it to others should be, amirite?
You know, if it wasn't because you always do this, people might believe it.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#29 - 2013-09-20 18:52:43 UTC
Laserak wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas

The newbees/low SP players used to fly blackbirds until they were nerfed. What pray tell do you think the newbees should fly if not celestis?

Sounds about right. Gotta have all those damps.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2013-09-20 19:17:08 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


> Gets owned by damp celestis
> Brings assisted sentry blob
> Gets owned anyway
> Loses war
> Claims victory

Is N3

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2013-09-20 19:31:28 UTC
Andski wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


> Gets owned by damp celestis
> Brings assisted sentry blob
> Gets owned anyway
> Loses war
> Claims victory

Is N3

"only there because it was virtually the only place there is action"

Welp test died, no more action cya

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#32 - 2013-09-20 20:05:58 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
You might also want to take a look at the ability to broadcast a target to an alphafleet.
It's OP as hell to be able to make 250 ships aware of a new target to shoot!

Tbh I don't see the particular issue. Focus firing and alpha are already things.

Alpha fleet still relies on people working in unison and has a long cycle time between targets as a detriment. That cycle time also means a single screw up can ripple down the chain of targets pulling them further out of sync and potentially catching reps. This can be further exploited by jamming/scan res damping only a portion of the fleet while optimal range/tracking disrupting the rest. No fleet should have EWAR immunity by simply switching drone bunny and remote sebo's to the one guy not being affected and apply full dps.

Sentries have a high rate of fire and don't rely on single shot damage to drop a target. It's more the fact of scrolling back and forth through an overview and broadcasting reps as soon as a single person starts yellow boxing you that bothers me. At least bringing a hundred celestis requires user input and coordination from players to neuter enemy logistics. At least when Alpha fleet primaries you, you get some ample warning what's about to happen and a chance to overheat hardeners/warp out. If you miss the one yellow box from a drone bunny with 250 sentries assigned you just suddenly take tons of damage and by then it's too late to react.

I don't mind the unified trigger so much as the fact the drone boat doesn't need to lock its target. In fact, it doesn't even need to be capable of locking the target. It can apply dps out to 200+ KM with a 90k lock range. I think forcing the drone boat to lock the target for assisted sentry drones to fire would resolve much of the issue people have with it. At least with other drones there's travel time involved, letting you know you're about to take massive damage. Even bombs have a 10 second flight time letting you pull drones and otherwise react. Even if you manage to have the drones (smart)bombed the effect is limited as carrier support lets you refit additional drones - the drone bay size is not effectively a limit on a large scale encounter.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2013-09-20 20:14:20 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


People forced to x up for drone assist fleets will get bored and stop logging in long before CCP actually does anything to the mechanic itself.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-09-20 20:37:47 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


People forced to x up for drone assist fleets will get bored and stop logging in long before CCP actually does anything to the mechanic itself.

But how else would I bring three characters to the same fleet without isboxer and hope to pretend I'm actually playing them all properly, executing alpha strikes in unison? You can't counter the blob so I have to be my own blob!

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#35 - 2013-09-20 20:40:27 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
At least when Alpha fleet primaries you, you get some ample warning what's about to happen and a chance to overheat hardeners/warp out. If you miss the one yellow box from a drone bunny with 250 sentries assigned you just suddenly take tons of damage and by then it's too late to react.
I'm kinda floored, this is clearly a legitimate point against drone assisting that I hadn't realised.
I'm not even being sarcastic. I've seen a lot of complaints against assisting, and this is the first legitimate one.

I don't have an answer to you. Locking targets or whatever could be a part of it, dunno.
Right now I'm just sad that there was a legitimate complaint that I hadn't thought of. Sad
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2013-09-20 20:42:11 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


People forced to x up for drone assist fleets will get bored and stop logging in long before CCP actually does anything to the mechanic itself.

I like how you are implying the drone assist will cause CCP to lose money.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-09-20 20:48:28 UTC
Rhes wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
> Brings hundreds of T1 damp Celestis to fleet fights to support 1000 snipe alpha Megas
> Is upset when enemy changes to drone assist to counter all the damps
> Demands CCP removes drone assist mechanic from the game

Is CFC.


People forced to x up for drone assist fleets will get bored and stop logging in long before CCP actually does anything to the mechanic itself.


This guy is the king of trolling. In every post he try to make CCP the worst people on the planet. Says CCP is wrong on so many levels thats whats he is saying. Dude why are you playing if you hate this game? However this is not the case right now.

Stop trolling thanks. Idea
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2013-09-20 20:51:54 UTC
Drone assist mechanic, the end of EVE Online as we know it. You heard it here first everyone.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2013-09-20 20:52:01 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Georgina Parmala wrote:
At least when Alpha fleet primaries you, you get some ample warning what's about to happen and a chance to overheat hardeners/warp out. If you miss the one yellow box from a drone bunny with 250 sentries assigned you just suddenly take tons of damage and by then it's too late to react.
I'm kinda floored, this is clearly a legitimate point against drone assisting that I hadn't realised.
I'm not even being sarcastic. I've seen a lot of complaints against assisting, and this is the first legitimate one.

I don't have an answer to you. Locking targets or whatever could be a part of it, dunno.
Right now I'm just sad that there was a legitimate complaint that I hadn't thought of. Sad

Then there's the "everyone lock two random guys" - everyone is yellow boxed by someone. You don't know who actually controls the drones. How do you broadcast reps and even attempt to logi? Even in a small fleet where the alpha is far from instagib, you have to turn to "broadcast for reps when you actually take damage, pray your hardener is about to cycle and the scan res damped logi locks in time".

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Revman Zim
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2013-09-20 20:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Revman Zim
I guess I will give some background to why this "issue" is being brought up.

About a week ago (too lazy to check KB) N3 defended a POS from CFC. The bulk of our fleet was in Ishtars with T2 Sentries. We deployed our drones outside of the POS shields, assisted them to the Trigger and then moved to just inside the POS shields. CFC showed up and got FACERAPED.

That is why they and their alts are here whining. Instead of figuring out a counter, they will whine on the forums and to CCP about how the game is "unfair" and how game mechanics are being used to cheat their blob. Which seems pretty ironic.

Now, I will say that if someone with some smarts, moved a SBing BS into the ball of sentries, they would have wiped our entire DPS off the field. But that is too "hard".

Yes this is my main. No I don't give a ****.