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Frozen ship in space
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Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-09-20 05:05:38 UTC
I would much like to take notice of comments/opinions of others regarding following (too) common issue hampering solo flying/fighting:

First stage:
Exploring ships; using the guidance of battleclinic for effective loadouts (within one skill reach); consulting guidance by EVE University and forum postings,making adjustments; fitting the ship; this first stage is very enjoyable and interesting.

Second stage:
Flying the new ship out for experimenting, so, searching for battles in low-sec and 0-sec even knowing that you will very soon loose the ship however you do not care, since you do it for the enjoyment and fun of it all. And since loadouts being saved you can easily and fast get exactly the same ship back, or as I do, fit 4 to 5 ships at once...so, out there, and searching for the enjoyment in battles as a solo flying (=not depending on any other ships/players) Also this second stage: very enjoyable!

Third stage:
The battle in low sec...fun...adrenaline before the fight (since you very carfully have chosen your ship and its loadout modules...you read about it...learned from EVE University guidances...so, you know exactly what your ship is capable of (and of what it cannot do)...enjoyment starts! You do not even avoid fightings 1 vs 3 or more...since you know eventually you will loose anyway...but you get the enjoyment of the interesting fight for it in return! So...checking all..there you go...attacking....

Fourth stage:

OOOOOOOPS????what happens?? my ship is frozen totally down...some ice-cube in space...nothing works anymore...and you haven't even launched 1 missile?? You go clicking buttons...think your connection with the server is lost?...no...connection is ok...he..some frigates go shooting at you..well...seems my ancillary shield boosters still work...so..I can hold that off (for some time, at least)...but then...a frigate goes using its energy neutralizer on you..draining your capacitator...you think by yourself: well, at least I can do same since I have a much better energy neutralizer (=medium sized)...but...but...seems also your energy neutralizer is frozen too??...in fact nothing works...again...ice cube in space...strong battle cruiser waiting for the frigate to make the killing (without you even have shot 1x missile???)

What happened here, is that some ship 50 to 100 km away freezes you down with ECM...so..another one can take his time to finish you off (= which does not take any experience or skills at all at all).
There is no solution against this for solo flying players, since defending against ECM will cost you low slots + mid slots...so such would not leave you a combat vessel anymore. And against bonussed ECM ships (operating from afar) no defence possible at all.

So, after the very enjoyable stages 1 u/i 3 follows ...stage 4: "Frozen Ship in Space"...aka....frozen Cassius Clay being totally knocked out by Danny DeVito in a boxing match...to think of that!

Why is this? I do not understand since without the massive power of ECM (= in my opinion very unrealistic...and far from what is known as SciFi) there could be so much fun and so many enjoyable fights for so many players?

I am not against ECM (= infact a very interesting attribute to the game)...but I certainly do not understand why they made ECM so massive powerful, without any nuance!

What do other solo flying players think of the experience I described above?
KuroVolt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-09-20 05:09:49 UTC  |  Edited by: KuroVolt
ECM is a *****!

Just saying that would have saved yourself and everyone else alot of time.

BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#3 - 2013-09-20 05:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
You got baited into a 2v1. You didn't consider what the other characters in local _where_ despite them being there where you could see them. Your bad.

(local is a tremendously overpowered intel tool).

If you suspect falcon, you should add ishtar.
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-09-20 05:20:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Chin MonWang
KuroVolt wrote:
ECM is a *****!

Just saying that would have saved yourself and everyone else alot of time.


Saying just "Yes"or "No" is even faster. But better, try to read between the lines...and try to grasp what lies beneath it: ECM in this massive powerful way is totally out balanced and destroys many other aspects of this great game, for many solo flying players. The point I wanted to make.

Not being able to fire 1x missile with a ship? Sorry, but such is realy ridiculous (even in SciFi). Maybe at some point in time people could try to take a look at it and make some adjustments, I mean.

Anyway, I am interested in opinions of other solo flying/fighting players
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-09-20 05:35:13 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
You got baited into a 2v1. You didn't consider what the other characters in local _where_ despite them being there where you could see them. Your bad.

(local is a tremendously overpowered intel tool).

If you suspect falcon, you should add ishtar.



Sorry, I realy do not understand what you try to say here. This is an issue with general meaning. Called ECM.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#6 - 2013-09-20 05:38:05 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
ECM doesn't "freeze" you. It merely prevents you from targeting anything (which is required to use any offensive modules). All defensive and propulsion modules will still work and you can still move around.

Looking at your killboard I see you favor missile ships. You can load FoF/Auto-Targeting missiles in such a case... however these missiles are, for lack of a better word, dumb. They will go after whatever is aggressing you and randomly switch between them (assuming there is more than one).

Other than that... ECCM and Sensor Backup arrays will be your only other options (aside from running away).


edit: Just so you know, ECM is one of the more... "disliked" mechanics out there (because it's based on probability (see: it's random)). The problem is that several ships are specifically built around it and no one has come up with an alternative Ewar (that people won't dislike) to replace it.

How did you Veterans start?
Chin MonWang
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2013-09-20 05:48:03 UTC
I do not intend to make any further comments on this issue: it is up to others now to post/comment their own views. I know everything of the possibilities of ECM and counter ECM, I read all, studued all, to find a way out,to find some solution for solo flying players. But, I am not going to comment anymore in this forum, up to others now. I will follow this with interest (since I myself already have an opinion, after much research). So, do comment.

Bye
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#8 - 2013-09-20 05:50:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Chin MonWang wrote:
Tauranon wrote:
You got baited into a 2v1. You didn't consider what the other characters in local _where_ despite them being there where you could see them. Your bad.

(local is a tremendously overpowered intel tool).

If you suspect falcon, you should add ishtar.



Sorry, I realy do not understand what you try to say here. This is an issue with general meaning. Called ECM.


If you 1v1 a falcon with an ishtar, the ishtar pilot usually wins. ie the falcon is a force multiplier, not a soloiwinbutton.

If you 1v1 someone else, and they had a cloaked falcon that added, then you got baited into a 2v1. Unless you were in a WH one imagines the extra pilot was always on local, and you just hadn't identified what that pilot was about before initiating or accepting combat. ie you are failing to use your intelligence tools.

If you also have backup, and that backup is intended to counter a falcon (lets say your backup is an ishtar), then you can force the 2v1 back to your preferred 1v1, or accept that you are now in a 2v2 with an advantageous combination in your favour if the falcon doesn't try to leave immediately.

In short, in a group game, baiting and escalation are normal, and even if you _want_ to 1v1, it does not mean that you cannot also arrange to be able to bait and it doesn't mean that you cannot counter an escalation with your own escalation even if you don't always need to do it.

Just running solo into lowsec accepting the first fight you find in 2 minutes is a recipe for being baited or being escalated on.
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#9 - 2013-09-20 06:13:31 UTC
You are constantly losing pods in lowsec.
And you are losing ships to same group of people in same system.

One could think that after second time you would notice some pattern here but no, let's take another gnosis out.
And god forbid taking some ECM drones this time.

I think ECM may not be main issue in your fights.

Invalid signature format
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2013-09-20 06:26:34 UTC
Another bull faecal thread about ECM being overpowered....its NOT.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Tao Dolcino
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-09-20 07:05:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Tao Dolcino
I would gladly have shared my opinion with you if the tone you use in your posts was not so arrogant and hostile. You have frozen my communicative modules with you ECM mood.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#12 - 2013-09-20 11:35:49 UTC
The trick is to learn which enemy pilots are ECM heavy, and proceed to make sure fights get as unfun for them as they are for you. Fit your low slots with warp core stabilizers and bait agression to tank their sec status. Blueball them like mad: give them a little bit of hope for a fight (for example, warping to a safe close to the gate they are camping) and then warp off again. Sit just off grid with a site to make them think you are ratting while you are not. Deny them kills, waste their time, never bring a good fight, always crush them with overwhelming force.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#13 - 2013-09-20 11:40:26 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:
I would much like to take notice of comments/opinions of others regarding following (too) common issue hampering solo flying/fighting:

First stage:
Exploring ships; using the guidance of battleclinic for effective loadouts (within one skill reach); consulting guidance by EVE University and forum postings,making adjustments; fitting the ship; this first stage is very enjoyable and interesting.

Second stage:
Flying the new ship out for experimenting, so, searching for battles in low-sec and 0-sec even knowing that you will very soon loose the ship however you do not care, since you do it for the enjoyment and fun of it all. And since loadouts being saved you can easily and fast get exactly the same ship back, or as I do, fit 4 to 5 ships at once...so, out there, and searching for the enjoyment in battles as a solo flying (=not depending on any other ships/players) Also this second stage: very enjoyable!

Third stage:
The battle in low sec...fun...adrenaline before the fight (since you very carfully have chosen your ship and its loadout modules...you read about it...learned from EVE University guidances...so, you know exactly what your ship is capable of (and of what it cannot do)...enjoyment starts! You do not even avoid fightings 1 vs 3 or more...since you know eventually you will loose anyway...but you get the enjoyment of the interesting fight for it in return! So...checking all..there you go...attacking....

Fourth stage:

OOOOOOOPS????what happens?? my ship is frozen totally down...some ice-cube in space...nothing works anymore...and you haven't even launched 1 missile?? You go clicking buttons...think your connection with the server is lost?...no...connection is ok...he..some frigates go shooting at you..well...seems my ancillary shield boosters still work...so..I can hold that off (for some time, at least)...but then...a frigate goes using its energy neutralizer on you..draining your capacitator...you think by yourself: well, at least I can do same since I have a much better energy neutralizer (=medium sized)...but...but...seems also your energy neutralizer is frozen too??...in fact nothing works...again...ice cube in space...strong battle cruiser waiting for the frigate to make the killing (without you even have shot 1x missile???)

What happened here, is that some ship 50 to 100 km away freezes you down with ECM...so..another one can take his time to finish you off (= which does not take any experience or skills at all at all).
There is no solution against this for solo flying players, since defending against ECM will cost you low slots + mid slots...so such would not leave you a combat vessel anymore. And against bonussed ECM ships (operating from afar) no defence possible at all.

So, after the very enjoyable stages 1 u/i 3 follows ...stage 4: "Frozen Ship in Space"...aka....frozen Cassius Clay being totally knocked out by Danny DeVito in a boxing match...to think of that!

Why is this? I do not understand since without the massive power of ECM (= in my opinion very unrealistic...and far from what is known as SciFi) there could be so much fun and so many enjoyable fights for so many players?

I am not against ECM (= infact a very interesting attribute to the game)...but I certainly do not understand why they made ECM so massive powerful, without any nuance!

What do other solo flying players think of the experience I described above?


Sounds like a old fashion gang bang. ECM ftw win or EWOK. :) sorry this happens
Tyrton
Imbecile MIiss Managment and Disasters
Intergalactic Interstellar Interns
#14 - 2013-09-20 12:24:28 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Another bull faecal thread about ECM being overpowered....its NOT.



But saying hey listen i had an easy fight that i should have won without breaking a sweat until mean ECM ship made the fight uneven (please ignore the fact that the fight was uneven to begin with) and in the "victims" favor.

Its a lot easier to blame ECM instead of lack of situational awareness.
Ruskarn Andedare
Lion Investments
#15 - 2013-09-20 13:22:44 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
ECM doesn't "freeze" you. It merely prevents you from targeting anything (which is required to use any offensive modules). All defensive and propulsion modules will still work and you can still move around.

Looking at your killboard I see you favor missile ships. You can load FoF/Auto-Targeting missiles in such a case... however these missiles are, for lack of a better word, dumb. They will go after whatever is aggressing you and randomly switch between them (assuming there is more than one).

Other than that... ECCM and Sensor Backup arrays will be your only other options (aside from running away).


edit: Just so you know, ECM is one of the more... "disliked" mechanics out there (because it's based on probability (see: it's random)). The problem is that several ships are specifically built around it and no one has come up with an alternative Ewar (that people won't dislike) to replace it.


There are also ECM resist skills that work rather well
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#16 - 2013-09-20 13:56:10 UTC
Tauranon wrote:
You got baited into a 2v1. You didn't consider what the other characters in local _where_ despite them being there where you could see them. Your bad.

(local is a tremendously overpowered intel tool).

If you suspect falcon, you should add ishtar.


Suspect? Why there's someone left in game who does not bring 1 falcon alt with him everywhere? Shocked

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BoBoZoBo
MGroup9
#17 - 2013-09-20 14:25:22 UTC
You just learned the meaning of the combat axiom "The best laid plans go to hell when the first shot is fired."
You watched too many war movies about "honor" and failed to take into consideration that good fighters don't take chances.

Primary Test Subject • SmackTalker Elite
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#18 - 2013-09-20 14:28:08 UTC
I engaged a Condor and his Griffin mate/alt in an Incursus. A bit pissed off at myself, I had just kinda glossed over the shiptypes "general caldari shitships", and the true griffiiness of my situation only dawned fully when the first jam landed. Perma ******* jammed as always. Couldn't slingshot, had to pull my drone in before it died. Tank was holding nicely tho.

So I brought in my alt from the next system in a Condor, and killed the Griffin.

Alts solve EVERYTHING, even ECM has nothing on the POWER OF TWO.

.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-09-20 14:34:57 UTC
Chin MonWang wrote:


Second stage:
Flying the new ship out for experimenting, so, searching for battles in low-sec and 0-sec even knowing that you will very soon loose the ship however you do not care, since you do it for the enjoyment and fun of it all. And since loadouts being saved you can easily and fast get exactly the same ship back, or as I do, fit 4 to 5 ships at once...so, out there, and searching for the enjoyment in battles as a solo flying (=not depending on any other ships/players) Also this second stage: very enjoyable!


*lose
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-09-20 14:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Since ECM has been done so many times I'll give you this.

its dead
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