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A lesson learned about Mictrotransactions...
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-09-20 11:27:21 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay


so they say Big smile some people will believe anything I swear

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#22 - 2013-09-20 11:33:26 UTC
C DeLeon wrote:
I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great.

The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding.

Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed.


(Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now Twisted)


The hate keeps us warm Lol

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#23 - 2013-09-20 11:36:51 UTC
Sentamon wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay


so they say Big smile some people will believe anything I swear


Do you disagree that the Auction House shortcuts, and therefore undermines, the entire purpose for playing? I can see how being able to purchase some awesome piece of gear could be enticing to some, however, I also think that defeats the purpose of progression and makes the whole experience less legitimate for those who value the experience of level'ing a character. Like I said earlier - I can sorta see both sides of the coin, it's just a slippery slope in my opinion.

Thank me later :D
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#24 - 2013-09-20 11:37:56 UTC
C DeLeon wrote:
I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great.

The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding.

Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed.


(Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now Twisted)



QFT.
D3 is a terribly frustrating game as it is -- IMO the Blizzard team did a great job on the art, music and story, but the loot drop system is beyond terrible. Sure you get piles and piles of loot, but just about all of it is useless, and by the time you hit level 55 or so, nearing the end of Hell mode, this becomes a serious problem because you quite literally can't progress any further unless you pull out the credit card and use the RMAH. I actually quit the game twice after leveling characters up over this issue.

So yeah, the removal of the auction houses, and the adjustment of the loot drops back to how they should be in a real ARPG, can't come soon enough for me. Re-respect gained for Blizzard for admitting their huge mistake and taking steps to correcting the problem.

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-09-20 11:38:16 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.

Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?

[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url]



Don`t care about D3 sins the f*ck up there game so badly to make it a money gear fest game like world of wankers. No whatever the do the can not fixs the game.

In the other hand lets hope ccp don't want to do this. But I don't think ccp go that patch. So far I notice it.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#26 - 2013-09-20 11:40:12 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
I found this article about how Diablo 3's Auction House is being shutdown for essentially undermining the core gameplay and reward factor that players's achieve through that gameplay. Hopefully CCP will keep this in mind and not go this way... that EA-guy, Mr. Wutziz Naim, should read this article.

Maybe I'm under-informed... dunno. Perhaps. What are your thoughts?

[url]http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/no-money-no-problems-blizzard-axes-diablo-3-auction-house-4B11192195[/url]



Don`t care about D3 sins the f*ck up there game so badly to make it a money gear fest game like world of wankers. No whatever the do the can not fixs the game.

In the other hand lets hope ccp don't want to do this. But I don't think ccp go that patch. So far I notice it.


... roger that. Shocked

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#27 - 2013-09-20 11:41:16 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret
University of Caille
#28 - 2013-09-20 11:43:10 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
QFT ... ??


"Quoted For Truth"

> anyone willing to give me like a 5 min politics crash course?

> grr goons, lowsec is full of elitist sh*s, all roads lead to the bittervet pl
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#29 - 2013-09-20 11:49:34 UTC
Trudeaux Margaret wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
QFT ... ??


"Quoted For Truth"



Ah Smile my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha

Thank me later :D
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#30 - 2013-09-20 11:52:23 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Ah Smile my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha

The base mindset of the average EVE player: When in doubt, feel threatened/insulted...

...no wonder nobody wants to play with us. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#31 - 2013-09-20 11:54:29 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
C DeLeon wrote:
I have problems finding the similarities in this. The AH made diablo terrible while the market makes eve great.

The reason why the ah was a terrible idea at the first place because the whole loot system and game experience is balanced around trading which is silly. I understand they wanted to undermine black market and rmt but it made more harm than good. In diablo 1-2 it was all about killing monsters and getting loot for it. Of course if someone wanted high-end gear they had to trade with other players but it wasn't so common as it is in diablo 3. The ah was the reason why the loot system is so terrible and not rewarding.

Even after hundreds of hours of gameplay you character is still sh#t unless you start ah manipulation or you touch your credit card. If you want to gear up multiple classes by yourself you are pretty much screwed.


(Btw the official forums are full with delicious tears by the players who played diablo for the money. We joke about eve players who lives in the basement and haven't seen the sun since months but in diablo it is actually true. There are lots of players playing 8-10 hours a day streaming the whole time and living from real money ah and donations. They are totally buttmad now Twisted)


The hate keeps us warm Lol


Also, I agree 100% with your take on the Eve Market being awesome and the D3AH being horrible. My intent was not to say they are the same and that both are therefore great but rather to highlight two different models and why one is successful while the other generally sucks. Sorry if I didn't make that clear Sad

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#32 - 2013-09-20 11:58:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Ah Smile my first guess was Quit Effin Talking haha

The base mindset of the average EVE player: When in doubt, feel threatened/insulted...

...no wonder nobody wants to play with us. Blink


Well... fine then. Bear

Also, I think that part of the reason Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D

Thank me later :D
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#33 - 2013-09-20 12:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#34 - 2013-09-20 12:10:26 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Well... fine then. Bear

Also, I think that part of the reason Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D

I was joking... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#35 - 2013-09-20 12:29:00 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Well... fine then. Bear

Also, I think that part of the reason Eve players have the reputation that they do is due in large part to the freedom that is afforded to capsuleers within the New Eden star cluster. Personally, I enjoy the cutthroat nature of Eve and think it makes better players while providing a more realistic experience. But that's just me .. and frankly, what the hell do I know? :D

I was joking... Blink


Don't mind me ... just bored at the cubicle farm ... doing thingz and drinking coffeez.

I do appreciate everyone's input.

Thank me later :D
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2013-09-20 14:38:27 UTC
Tao Dolcino wrote:
I play EVE BECAUSE there is no microtransaction. I want to pay my 15€ every months and be equal with the other subscribers.
"Greed is good" = immediat unsub.


hear hear.

When CCP first introduced AUR, I quit for a while. I came back for the pvp and the people I knew, but I lost a lot of my love for EVE over that whole ordeal.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#37 - 2013-09-20 14:42:49 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
They probably won't go down that path.

If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game.


What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be Pirate

Cite on the F2P? I keep hearing that, but it always seems to be pulled out of someone's anal orifice without authoritative cite. i.e. Rumor Mongering (a bit of a no-no).
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2013-09-20 15:41:11 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Bischopt wrote:
They probably won't go down that path.

If they did, some of us would finally have a reason to quit spending money on this game.


What about Aurum? I have also heard rumors of Eve moving to a free-to-play model with microtransactions becoming the norm. I agree with you though - I think this would kill a part Eve Online's soul ... assuming she has one, what a heartless bi-...err, lady she can be Pirate

Cite on the F2P? I keep hearing that, but it always seems to be pulled out of someone's anal orifice without authoritative cite. i.e. Rumor Mongering (a bit of a no-no).


CCP has shotdown the viability of going to a F2P model because they have a successful subscription-based model that has seen ten years of consecutive growth that works.

I think that the F2P model has been suggested as a compliment to microtransactions.

Anal leakage aside, you're correct, their is no CCP-supported effort for this F2P model as of yet.

Thank me later :D
Herr Esiq
Viziam
#39 - 2013-09-20 15:42:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Esiq
I quit Diablo III because i was terribly bummed out by the RM AH. It utterly destroys any sense of achievement and replayabillity.

Look at Borderlands 2, thats how you build a game that has a lot of replay value because of item drops. Yes you can hack and cheat your way in BL2 but that isnt a real concern in that game somehow. In DIII it was impossible to trade at some point because people only wanted cash for their items. Destroyed the community before it began.
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#40 - 2013-09-20 19:27:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Elliavir
Amhra Rho wrote:
This article shows lots of signs that Bizzard didn't know what they were doing when they created the auction house in D3. It's incredibly difficult to create and balance a virtual economy - you need a good economist plus your own fair share of luck. This article makes it sound like Blizz had neither.

Then there's this:
Quote:
Blizzard will shut down the auction house entirely come March 18, 2014.

If it's such a horrendous mess, why are they waiting half a year to phase it out? It's just . . . odd.

Not taking a stand on microtransactions one way or the other - just suggesting that Blizzard perhaps creates better Orc battles than Auction Houses.


They are waiting because they are releasing a new "Loot 2.0" (their term, not mine) with the upcoming expansion to D3.

It they shut it down now, they have a game with piles of generally-bad loot drops and a crafting system that tends to create random (read, 'usually not overly useful") loot. Since their admitted point to the game is to kill things and take their stuff, having crappy loot drop after crappy loot drop after crappy loot craft would probably kill their remaining playerbase in advance of the expansion. They took a hard hit with a less-than-stellar launch, and appear to be counting on the PS3 release and subsequent expansion to revive the game.

Edit - additional comment: I don't think Blizzard was really trying to create a viable in-game economy (it certainly wasn't mentioned in anything I read). They were trying to cut down on the issues caused by third-party RMT in their games by enabling players to buy and sell gold and items for cash through a safe and authorized Blizzard-provided service. The fact that it had a potential to be a cash cow for Blizzard was probably not a factor at all.