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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Training Points? without training anything?

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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#61 - 2013-09-19 18:23:31 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:

Yup, If your AFK skill points built up based on your lowest two attributes there would be no way to gain advantage from it but it would be great for those unexpected emergencies like PC dies, ISP blocks EVE, floods, blackouts, unplanned 48 hour shift, etc.


No, don't base it on the two lowest attributes that the character happens to have. Base it on 1 less than the lowest value it is possible for an attribute to have.
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-09-19 18:37:55 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Settings skills means commitment to training those skills, means paying for skillbooks, means earning for those skillbooks. You want to have more trained character just buy it.


This is a terrible and poorly thought out response. Nothing that the OP suggested would even come close to being a concern that you posted.

The OP is merely suggesting that the skillpoints queue up, to be applied to skills that you either have in your head, or that you pay for and inject into your head.

What he didn't make clear in the OP was that you should only accumulate skillpoints into your unallocated skillpoint bucket, at the lowest possible rate based on your attributes. So, you get penalized for not setting a skill, but not completely ****** over for not being able to set a new skill to train for a few days.

This does not give an unbalanced skillpoint advantage to the player
This does not extend out to buying skillpoints for ISK/money
This does not extend out to Ghost Training

This would actually be a good faith gesture from CCP, letting us know that they realize that r/l > EVE when it comes to account management. And since we realize that there is nothing that they can do, nor would we want them to, protect our in-space assets while we are away, I don't really see a problem with this.
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2013-09-19 18:48:11 UTC
Johan Civire wrote:
No, this is just wrong so you make a account then you make a char you do nothing just login ones go offline then you come back 4 years later done training now i can sell this account for some money. No just no this is just to bad.


Another terrible post with a lack of intelligent reasoning.

Let's look at your scenario.

Player starts a new account.
Player starts a skill training.
Player continues to pay for the account for 4 years
Player logs on after 4 years, and has 4 years worth of unallocated skill points, based on training the lowest attributes possible

vs.

Player starts a new account
Player starts a skill training
Player stops paying for the account
Player reactivates account after 4 years and logs on
Player has unallocated skillpoints based on however long his account was paid up for, which could be up to 1 year max.

vs.

Player starts a new account
Player starts a skill training
Player continues to play and train account for 4 years
Player has no unallocated skillpoints but has much more total skillpoints/wealth/experience than in either previous scenario

Clearly the last scenario has the greatest advantage in skillpoints
Clearly the first and last scenario get CCP the most amount of money
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-09-19 19:03:39 UTC
Kirluin wrote:
Side effects of allowing untrained skill points to pile up are real and worth looking at. So lets take off the "I WANT" hat and put on the game designer hairpiece.

so what if someone rolls up a blank character with 40 million unspent skill points and sells it? even if unspent points accrue at a really reduced rate, people will inevitably do it. Such a character would be worth more $$ because of the crazy flexibility and because it would cost more to make.

after a few years you would have an influx of "perfect skilled" characters. You can get "perfect skilled" characters today if someone manages the skill queue properly, but they're pregenerated for a specific set, so finding the exact one you want is tougher.

having lots of perfect skillable characters for sale could alter game fun where long skill train times are meant to be the "cost". not just titan pilots, but marauders/pirate ships with dual race requirements etc. folks would be able to get these things instantly.

So why is that bad? I recently finally skilled up into a carrier (a project i've worked on and off on for like a year). I've always been a drone freak and keep trying to relive my homeworld 2 days. Finally getting into a carrier was a pretty big rush and was a nice game payoff. Had I been able to buy my way into one I probably would have, yet I would ironically have denied myself the super cool rush of finally achieving a long term goal. I'd have enjoyed it, but not nearly as much.

The "hard work -> payoff" rush is what a game wants to provide. its HUGE. that's why people get their friends to join. But you cant depend on players to see that when you nerf stuff or make it harder. Everyone remembers the awesome night when they met an evenly matched fleet and the outcome was in doubt, but your crew pulled it out of the fire and trounced the other guys. Yet most people would, if possible, summon the blob instead so they could be assured another easy (and easily forgotten) win.

That's a long way to say "No unlimited sp accrual. Keep hard goals hard, and hard goals worthwhile."

solve the problem another way, either by capping it at a small amount to let help travellers, or (better) give us a way to interact with the game world from anywhere.



Thank you for putting some thought into your post.

First off, you cannot sell characters for $$, only ISK, so we'll take that off the list of concerns
Second, Perfect Skilled.... Sounds like a vanity thing to me. What is more useful, a Vindicator pilot that has all level 5 skills related to flying a Vindicator, or the same skills with a lot of other skills that are unrelated to flying a Vindicator (perhaps being able to fly all pirate ships perfectly, with maybe some Industry thrown in to support producing your own ammo, et.al.)? Like I said, sounds like a vanity thing to me to say "oh, my character doesn't have any wasted skillpoints, so I am better than you, even though you can fully support all pirate ships and are self sufficient"...seems kinda silly when you look at it that way, eh?
That brings up the point of unallocated being worth more than allocated. A character that trained that self-suffient pilot up over the same period of time that the unallocated pilot could train up the 40 million, would have many more skillpoints than the 40 million. From a seller's perspective, that would make the self-sufficient pilot worth more to sell, in my eyes, than a blank 40 million character.

To your point about altering game fun based on paying the time "cost" to train a character...if that was an issue, we wouldn't have a character bazzar in the first place...as that allows anyone to sell their character (titan/supercarrier/et.al.) to anyone else with the right amount of ISK.

You proved yourself that it isn't a bad thing. You can already buy a character like what you wanted without having to pay the time "cost". Point invalidated.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#65 - 2013-09-19 20:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Topic was brought up many times before.

My opinion on this:

1. SP are generated only on active accounts.

2. Calculate rate of acquired SP based on minimal stat character has for both primary and secondary attribute(with implants). Maximum possible attribute this way is 22 which is not much compared to optimized skill plans/stats. You'll have to train cybernetics 5 asap and buy +5 implants and remap to all round stats to make this method a bit less inefficient.

3. You cannot sell characters with SP in free allocation pool unspent.

4. Logging in just to swap skills in skill queue is no different than acquiring SP to free allocation pool at slower rate. They both generate nothing gameplay-wise. Former way is taking a bit more resources from servers.

5. Passive SP generation is much safer for account security than calling your friend/family member and asking them to set skill queue for you when you are unable to do it yourself. (yeah, i know that account sharing is forbidden, but who cares?)

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#66 - 2013-09-19 21:14:12 UTC
The main issue I see with this is that people will keep a bunch of SP "on the side" at all times and then every time they loose a T3 cruiser they will instantly bounce the deleveled skill back to level 5.

Unless they are just fail at pvp or have a long stint of bad luck it would totally remove one of the main disadvantages in flying T3 cruisers in pvp as by the time they lost another T3 cruiser they would have the SP to restore the lost skill to 5 instantly again.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#67 - 2013-09-19 21:26:33 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The main issue I see with this is that people will keep a bunch of SP "on the side" at all times and then every time they loose a T3 cruiser they will instantly bounce the deleveled skill back to level 5.

Unless they are just fail at pvp or have a long stint of bad luck it would totally remove one of the main disadvantages in flying T3 cruisers in pvp as by the time they lost another T3 cruiser they would have the SP to restore the lost skill to 5 instantly again.

Since when more pew pew and more ships blown is a bad thing? Pilot will generate SP at slower rate so i see no problem here.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#68 - 2013-09-19 21:32:57 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Since when more pew pew and more ships blown is a bad thing? Pilot will generate SP at slower rate so i see no problem here.


So being able to fly a T3 in pvp with zero risk of having to spend the next few days with one of your subsystem skills at level 4 isn't a problem? Please elaborate.
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2013-09-19 23:15:44 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Topic was brought up many times before.

My opinion on this:

1. SP are generated only on active accounts.

2. Calculate rate of acquired SP based on minimal stat character has for both primary and secondary attribute(with implants). Maximum possible attribute this way is 22 which is not much compared to optimized skill plans/stats. You'll have to train cybernetics 5 asap and buy +5 implants and remap to all round stats to make this method a bit less inefficient.

3. You cannot sell characters with SP in free allocation pool unspent.

4. Logging in just to swap skills in skill queue is no different than acquiring SP to free allocation pool at slower rate. They both generate nothing gameplay-wise. Former way is taking a bit more resources from servers.

5. Passive SP generation is much safer for account security than calling your friend/family member and asking them to set skill queue for you when you are unable to do it yourself. (yeah, i know that account sharing is forbidden, but who cares?)


1. Given
2. Agree
3. Brilliant (although easily gotten around by designating skillpoint distribution prior to actual transfer/sale)
4. Agree
5. Agree 100%
Laendra
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-09-19 23:17:53 UTC
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:
The main issue I see with this is that people will keep a bunch of SP "on the side" at all times and then every time they loose a T3 cruiser they will instantly bounce the deleveled skill back to level 5.

Unless they are just fail at pvp or have a long stint of bad luck it would totally remove one of the main disadvantages in flying T3 cruisers in pvp as by the time they lost another T3 cruiser they would have the SP to restore the lost skill to 5 instantly again.



I thought the main disadvantage was lost skillpoints, and then lost ship...I may be mistaken, though. Either way, the ship is dead and the skillpoints are gone forever from the player. The only difference is they paid the training time penalty AHEAD OF TIME, and more expensively.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-09-20 04:01:49 UTC
Laendra wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Topic was brought up many times before.

My opinion on this:

1. SP are generated only on active accounts.

2. Calculate rate of acquired SP based on minimal stat character has for both primary and secondary attribute(with implants). Maximum possible attribute this way is 22 which is not much compared to optimized skill plans/stats. You'll have to train cybernetics 5 asap and buy +5 implants and remap to all round stats to make this method a bit less inefficient.

3. You cannot sell characters with SP in free allocation pool unspent.

4. Logging in just to swap skills in skill queue is no different than acquiring SP to free allocation pool at slower rate. They both generate nothing gameplay-wise. Former way is taking a bit more resources from servers.

5. Passive SP generation is much safer for account security than calling your friend/family member and asking them to set skill queue for you when you are unable to do it yourself. (yeah, i know that account sharing is forbidden, but who cares?)


1. Given
2. Agree
3. Brilliant (although easily gotten around by designating skillpoint distribution prior to actual transfer/sale)
4. Agree
5. Agree 100%


1 - What do you mean with active? Just when the have payee the monthly fee or when to actual login?
And how on what do you what to generated the SP on what level or how many SP per hour/per second?
This sound very interesting because there are to many "offline training people" This will reward the 8hours days warrior players

2 - Don't see the problem this "boost" is for the long run players and not for the fast action players.

3 - Selling characters ? I have no idea what you talk about.

4 - This is already a option 1. So this is irrelevant.

5 - This is out of the question. Security is NR 1 On every one list. You get slappy you get problems.
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#72 - 2013-09-20 18:20:01 UTC
Laendra wrote:
[quote=Antillie Sa'Kan]I thought the main disadvantage was lost skillpoints, and then lost ship...I may be mistaken, though. Either way, the ship is dead and the skillpoints are gone forever from the player. The only difference is they paid the training time penalty AHEAD OF TIME, and more expensively.


The disadvantage is both the lost SP and the time you are forced to fly around with reduced effectiveness in the ship. And by paying for the SP ahead of time, even if at a slightly higher cost, they totally sidestep on the of main disadvantages of T3 ships.
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-09-20 18:39:26 UTC
I'm all for it.

SP would accumulate at the speed of your lowest trait, and would not take implants into effect. This results in:

1. Reason to keep paying subscription over long breaks away. (Deployment, Move, Hiatus ect)

2. Remap choice consequence: If you jack up primary and secondary to max, your lowest stat will be minimum, so your dead training will be crap, necessitating frequent logons for skills. However, a balanced remap will result in only slight loss of training efficiency when your SQ lapses. People with different playing opportunities/schedules can adjust accordingly.

3. Those who manage their SQ's efficiently will still train much, much faster.

I think this change would cater to more casual players, with less play time available, while still giving a significant advantage to the die hard bittervets.