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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#421 - 2013-09-19 17:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Victoria Sin wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:

I've been known to gank on one account, and alt tab to mine with a Procuror during GCC cooldown on another.
It's a win/win situation, I get to impose extra costs onto my competitors, and sell stuff to people who may otherwise have bought it from the person that just exploded.


Oh, you're mining in high sec too? How lame.

Lame? Coming from someone posting on a character that is hiding behind an NPC corps skirts, that's rich.

I play in highsec, I also play in wormholes and lowsec occasionally. I gank other miners, and the occasional hauler if I get lucky, it generates a demand for some of the stuff I sell, in short it's good for business (I'm one of those mythical industrialists that will quite happily sell a miner new stuff after turning their old stuff into a wreck).

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#422 - 2013-09-19 17:44:58 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:


Looked like 2 to me. Maybe it was only one. I only had 20secs to find out before it all ended hilariously.


So... you cannot tell the difference between 4 and 8 or 5 and 10.

Cool... very competent. Bullshit.

Sounds to me like you're a leet PvPer who can count how many of the 10 drones orbiting the target are actually repairing it, in a limited time frame with a dozen ships on grid, with effects and drone brackets off to minimize lag getting the pod out.

I especially like the part where you assume there was no second hulk/other ship on grid to launch the second flight of shield drones in order to facilitate your ad hominem attack.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Lady Areola Fappington
#423 - 2013-09-19 18:02:30 UTC
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:
You seem kind of angry. Would you like to talk it out? Lady Areola Fappington has a teddybear we could use to roleplay some scenes.. work on your issues.



Excuse me you leave Serilynn out of this. She's an innocent teddybear and I'll not have her defiled by grubby miner fingers.


So, ITT we learn that gankers are horrible, awful sociopaths in RL and in-game, utterly terrible at EVE, yet a serious enough threat to warrant further action by CCP to protect the innocent miners. We also learned that Malcolm has thoughts about my stuffed animals. I'm almost afraid to see where this thread goes now.....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Renault T'Bonin
Doomheim
#424 - 2013-09-19 18:04:07 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
Malcolm Shinhwa wrote:


Looked like 2 to me. Maybe it was only one. I only had 20secs to find out before it all ended hilariously.


So... you cannot tell the difference between 4 and 8 or 5 and 10.

Cool... very competent. Bullshit.

Sounds to me like you're a leet PvPer who can count how many of the 10 drones orbiting the target are actually repairing it, in a limited time frame with a dozen ships on grid, with effects and drone brackets off to minimize lag getting the pod out.

I especially like the part where you assume there was no second hulk/other ship on grid to launch the second flight of shield drones in order to facilitate your ad hominem attack.


Are you going to claim he had asteroids in his overview... and therefor could not discern the drones? Even if he had drones pulled out of his overview... He'd still be able to see them flying. And yes you can discern them unless you're zoomed way in or way out (he would have done neither).

It's a BS story.

I'm criticizing his story... He might have launched Pink Elephant's out of his Hello Kitty Launcher II. But someone would have noticed that too.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#425 - 2013-09-19 18:22:41 UTC
Quote:
You're weak... you didn't pull out a battleship of equal value for the gank.

You have no balls.


*takes deep breath*

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!

E-honor!

Aha ha ha ha ha! *cough, cough*

"You didn't deliberately waste resources, so you have no balls!".

People still say **** like this?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#426 - 2013-09-19 18:29:50 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Yea... I have no ground to stand on... except the mountain that is the simple fact that we miners a) don't force anyone to do anything,

You force me to move to a different belt for my own mining
You force me to move to a different system increasing my logistic needs
You force me to sell my own minerals at lower value
You help flood the local market with products undercutting me

Slowing down my competition is a good thing.
Shalua Rui wrote:
and b) don't excel in making other players miserable, but hey...

...we again hit the brick wall that is the ignorance of the self styled "vocal masses". Blink

Have fun! Big smile

You should go have a chat with some of the prominent wardec corps. Maybe they can help enlighten you how industrialists "don't excel in making other players miserable". Hint: they don't pay for a wardec and hunt down industrial corps because lol easy carebear ganks to pad killboard.

Ignorance of the vocal masses indeed.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Lady Areola Fappington
#427 - 2013-09-19 18:50:29 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:

You force me to move to a different belt for my own mining
You force me to move to a different system increasing my logistic needs
You force me to sell my own minerals at lower value
You help flood the local market with products undercutting me




Shooting sparkly beams at resources, denying them to your competition for your own profit: Totally healthy PVE.

Shooting sparkly beams at your competition's ships, denying them the ability to harvest resources: Deviant sociopathic PVP ganking.



It's much easier to assuage your guilt if you're able to obfuscate your action through a few layers. What about the poor newbie who couldn't afford a plex, because your multibox orca/hulk rigs decimate 'roid belts before they can get there.....

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#428 - 2013-09-19 18:59:04 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
Are you going to claim he had asteroids in his overview... and therefor could not discern the drones?
What he's saying is that there are enough things to turn off in the game, and very good reasons for doing so, that it is no longer possible to casually observe exactly how many drones are being used and against what, especially when you're concentrating on more important things.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#429 - 2013-09-19 19:09:24 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

Are you going to claim he had asteroids in his overview... and therefor could not discern the drones? Even if he had drones pulled out of his overview... He'd still be able to see them flying. And yes you can discern them unless you're zoomed way in or way out (he would have done neither).

It's a BS story.

I'm criticizing his story... He might have launched Pink Elephant's out of his Hello Kitty Launcher II. But someone would have noticed that too.

You are not criticizing his story, you are attacking him.

Speaking for myself, I don't have drones on the overview unless I switch to a specific one to show them. Furthermore, only one of my 5 overview tabs actually shows drone brackets, even hostile ones. You also seem to be forgetting, you know, the concord NPC's, other gankers, the warp-in provider/looter and whatnot and the gunfire and particle effects if turned on / not actually seeing the drone's repping effect if off.

Just to re-emphasize how ill thought out your attack is:
Quote:
He'd still be able to see them flying.

Even if the hulk launched his own shield drones in an ill conceived attempt to repair himself, all you would see is 10 shield drones orbiting the hulk. Discerning how many of them are actually actively repairing it, is an entirely different matter.

If you were to attack the argument itself, you would be pointing out how 5 medium shield bots restore 720 shields in a 20 second period. Then extrapolating how an additional ~3000 ehp against antimatter would not make a difference in sustaining an untanked hulk with shield resist boosts through one T2 cat and two meta cats, let alone keep it from dipping into armor. Of course, if the hulk was tanked appropriately, it would gain ~6000 shield ehp from the drones over the course of the gank making it quite believable the firepower applied didn't break the shields even with just 5 drones repairing.


Here's one more free piece of advice to the non-AFK miners that don't want to die in a fire, maybe even harvest some ganker tears:

You can refit your ship in the belt using the Orca

Got ship scanned? See catalysts on directional scan? Put your mining upgrades in the orca and fit the DC2 and bulk heads from the Orca's fleet hangar! Getting ganked? Think you're going to die anyway? Strip your strips and store them in the Orca before you pop. Your shields are gone? Put your shield mods in the Orca!

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#430 - 2013-09-19 19:18:34 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:

It's much easier to assuage your guilt if you're able to obfuscate your action through a few layers. What about the poor newbie who couldn't afford a plex, because your multibox orca/hulk rigs decimate 'roid belts before they can get there.....

Seriously ^

When I first started, after doing some of the tutorial I wanted to see what I could make mining in my Tormentor. I was getting all kinds of mad seeing barges sucking the veldspar dry in 1.0 sec starter systems.

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Ezslider
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#431 - 2013-09-19 19:28:32 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
Even if he had drones pulled out of his overview... He'd still be able to see them flying. And yes you can discern them unless you're zoomed way in or way out (he would have done neither).


No, you can actually turn off brackets, tags etc...and your drones are almost impossible to see. Especially what ever funky background you have.
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#432 - 2013-09-19 21:07:21 UTC
Personal attack post removed.

Forum rule 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
James Akachi
Perkone
Caldari State
#433 - 2013-09-19 21:41:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Varius Xeral wrote:
Let's take a hypothetical game, we'll call it "EBE Online". This game has consistently for ten years running been generally unremarkable in every classic metric for measuring mainstream videogames. However, EBE Online has one defining characteristic that distinguishes it from all other mainstream games, we'll call this hypothetical characteristic " emerbent gameplay". Despite being consistently mediocre or worse in all the usual characteristics of videogames, EBE Online manages to consistently survive and generally grow year after year for a decade while almost every other mainstream game dies in flames around it.

Who in their right mind would look at this situation and suggest that dumbing down emerbent gameplay is the key to unlocking greater success for EBE Online?


Underlined the part of the post that suggests the answer you seek. ie "Imbercils" Twisted

Slightly more seriously, some people hold the "cup half empty" worldview and think that if it exists, it must be crappy and can be made better. People like that don't understand that something exist the way they do for a reason and that you screw with it's balance at your own peril.

Those same people tend to be really short sighted, in that they don't understand that the thing they think they hate ("emergent gameplay" and thus uncertainty, non-consensual pvp everywhere including high sec, EVE's death penalties and so on) are at the same time the things that keep people -including them- paying for and playing the game.

If they just wanted to be left alone, why not play on sisi? If they don't like universe wide non-consensual pvp, why not play games like Star Trek Online or dozens of other that prevent ANY such thing in the 1st place?

It's because they like the danger, they just don't understand they like it. They'd hate an eve without the danger, yet they keep ignorantly calling for it because they can't be honest enough inside themselves to admit it.



well not necessarily. I play because the game and universe is beautiful, if you gave me a single player RPG with Eve's graphics and ships I would be playing that instead, sadly no such game exists, at least not one I enjoy.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#434 - 2013-09-20 00:46:20 UTC
I never understand why people don't bother to tank their mining barge

in right config on procurer (all T2). I can get over 100k EHP against Kinetic, Thermic, and Explosive.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#435 - 2013-09-20 01:04:55 UTC
James Akachi wrote:
if you gave me a single player RPG with Eve's graphics and ships I would be playing that instead

Interesting.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#436 - 2013-09-20 03:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Elliavir
MeestaPenni wrote:
Gankers are bullies with exactly the same motivations and influences as the school yard bully picking on perceived weaknesses.


No, they pick on actual weaknesses.

Picking on an incorrectly-perceived-weakness-that-isn't-actually-there tends to lead to a lot of free loot and salvage for the locals, without any profit for the ganker(s).
Hammer Crendraven
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2013-09-20 04:14:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hammer Crendraven
unidenify wrote:
I never understand why people don't bother to tank their mining barge

in right config on procurer (all T2). I can get over 100k EHP against Kinetic, Thermic, and Explosive.


Well its called isk tanking. But that is for people that can take a gank here and there.
And it requires a bit of higher math skills like maybe 8th grade math skills.
(reference are you smarter than a 6th grader TV show) Blink

The tanked procurer is for the person that can not stand ganks at all.
And they probably will still get ganked just because of the tears it provides.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#438 - 2013-09-20 04:24:32 UTC
Procurers:)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#439 - 2013-09-20 04:39:15 UTC
Hammer Crendraven wrote:
The tanked procurer is for the person that can not stand ganks at all.
And they probably will still get ganked just because of the tears it provides.


If you can't stand ganks at all, you shouldn't be in a mining ship at all. At least not anywhere in New Eden.

I fly Procurers and Skiffs because I find setting up a new ship vaguely annoying. Even if I have a saved fit. I prefer not to do it if I don't have to. Although I love all the customization options EVE offers, ship fitting is one of my least favorite actual activities.

If someone goes to all the effort to gank me in one of my mining ships, well.. .they are welcome to the killmail. They've certainly had to spend the ISK to get it. If they can do it at a profit, my hat will be off to them. If EVE had fruit baskets, they'd get one from me.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, I haven't been successfully ganked ... yet. I mine with the idea of being one of the least attractive targets in the belt. I like being left alone while I have my coffee and mine. And it seems to work pretty well, overall. I am sure I'll lose a mining ship somewhere along the line - but I will have avoided a whole lot of ship fitting along the way.

Mind you, I'm not discounting ISK-tanking. If someone is comfortable just writing off an occasional ship as a business expense, that's fine. That's not everyone's preferred playstyle, however - and Procurers and Skiffs make for a nice alternative.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#440 - 2013-09-20 05:03:50 UTC
James Akachi wrote:




well not necessarily. I play because the game and universe is beautiful, if you gave me a single player RPG with Eve's graphics and ships I would be playing that instead, sadly no such game exists, at least not one I enjoy.


X3.