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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#361 - 2013-09-19 13:35:14 UTC
Twylla wrote:

Taken into the environment of EVE Online, highsec ganking (Nonconsentual combat in a declared 'safe zone) would correlate appropriately to an 'immoral act'.
You *have* seen CCP's advertising, yes? Where it says "Be the Villain..?" Furthermore, Hi-Sec has never been safe. People mistakenly *believe* it to be safe, but that is not in fact what it is. It has only more serious consequences for certain acts, and tighter restrictions on actions than the other zones.

So, clearly, you're suffering for a failure to actually state the true case here. Which makes the rest of post so much pretentious twaddle.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#362 - 2013-09-19 13:35:20 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


Many New Order gankers I know .........


"Many"?

Who are they?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Renault T'Bonin
Doomheim
#363 - 2013-09-19 13:37:09 UTC
I have a solution....

Every time you gank a miner... you are forced to mine for two hours and then deliver the product.

You ain't tough, or good at Eve, until you've moved an industrial (not a tranport) full of zydrine 20 jumps to market- after mining for hours to get it.

That's tough. That's a challenge. That's playing a game where everyone in the game is your enemy, and your only defense is your brain.

Ganking miners: Phhht. That's for the incompetents that can't handle low sec or 0.0. It might be allowed, it might even be an intended mechanic. But it wreaks of incompetence and desperation.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#364 - 2013-09-19 13:42:30 UTC
Way I see it, it doesn't matter what motivates those who're intending to do harm to your assets. Either protect them or don't. I personally don't care if it's for RP, financial, political reasons or just for lulz... it just doesn't matter. What does matter is that at that moment your assets are being threatened, it's a hostile blip and it's up to you how to respond. No response is consent to loss. You undocked with it, you knew it was at risk. *shrug*

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#365 - 2013-09-19 13:42:49 UTC
Twylla wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:

No, I don’t have to ask that question. They are playing a game, this is not real life. As to “nonconsetual” again, this is part and parcel of EvE, non-consensual combat does not exist in EvE online, you agree to it by logging in.



Do you consent to sex every time you wake up in the morning? It's a part and parcel of life, and nobody's stopping them from just taking it from you. Just because the mechanics allow it doesn't make it automatically consentual.
Nice strawman there. So now, playing a game wherein ambush in all zones is explicitly allowed is akin to ****? You really have lost the plot.

Quote:
It's a game, but there's a designated 'green zone'. Ganking is a player-emergent behavior that is not supported by CCP except by not directly addressing it.
CCP explicitly supports this. Indeed, they've even expressed their delight at major attacks on Hi-Sec (See response to Burn Jita). You are entirely mistaken. You are so badly mistaken that you cannot even be said to be merely 'wrong.' There is no word in my vocabulary for how wrong you are.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#366 - 2013-09-19 13:44:28 UTC
Suicide ganking is one of the more difficult forms of PVP. For a decent chance of success you need perfect intel right down to which modules the target is fitting, then each gank requires maths and split second timing from everyone involved. Even then the whole gank can be ruined if the target wakes up and checks local or whatever. I'd put ganking on par with bombing or small gang PVP far as difficulty goes.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#367 - 2013-09-19 13:46:47 UTC
Doris Dents wrote:
Suicide ganking is one of the more difficult forms of PVP.


Are you talking about a T1 mining barge or freighter?

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Doris Dents
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#368 - 2013-09-19 13:50:23 UTC
dexington wrote:
Doris Dents wrote:
Suicide ganking is one of the more difficult forms of PVP.


Are you talking about a T1 mining barge or freighter?

Any gank unless you have overwhelming firepower. Clearly though "overwhelming firepower" is a much lower bar for T1 barges than freighters.
Lady Areola Fappington
#369 - 2013-09-19 13:50:45 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


Many New Order gankers I know .........


"Many"?

Who are they?



Good girls don't kiss and tell. Lets just say, there are entirely too many people who will happily sell a miner a new Retriever on one char, then gank it on the other.

I mean, why not do it? There's no secret miner code. It's not like the Brotherhood of Industrialists will take away blueprints. Hell, a huge, huge chunk of our intel comes from other miners diming people out.

"Hey man, saw you were operating in the area. Could you come over and gank Miner X. I want him out of this roid belt so I can get the good ore. Kthnx BFF 4lyfe."

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#370 - 2013-09-19 13:56:00 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
I mean, why not do it? There's no secret miner code. It's not like the Brotherhood of Industrialists will take away blueprints. Hell, a huge, huge chunk of our intel comes from other miners diming people out.

"Hey man, saw you were operating in the area. Could you come over and gank Miner X. I want him out of this roid belt so I can get the good ore. Kthnx BFF 4lyfe."

…and then people wonder why I, as a highsec industrialist, want to see nullsec industry moved to nullsec and highsec ganking made easier. Twisted
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#371 - 2013-09-19 13:59:27 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

Ganking miners: Phhht. That's for the incompetents that can't handle low sec or 0.0. It might be allowed, it might even be an intended mechanic. But it wreaks of incompetence and desperation.

'Tis a common security blanket folks hang onto. But it's an illusion, and like all illusions, provides no real security or protection. Check the killboards. You'll see that your comforting illusion is just smoke on the wind.

Like security blankets and teddy bears everywhere, your illusion is a coping tactic to protect you from fear. Shed the fear; Your game will only improve.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#372 - 2013-09-19 14:00:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…and then people wonder why I, as a highsec industrialist, want to see nullsec industry moved to nullsec and highsec ganking made easier. Twisted


Because then you, as an experienced industrialist, will be handed a dramatic advantage by hampering the "entry to market"......courtesy of CCP?

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#373 - 2013-09-19 14:01:55 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:


Many New Order gankers I know .........


"Many"?

Who are they?



Good girls don't kiss and tell. Lets just say, there are entirely too many people who will happily sell a miner a new Retriever on one char, then gank it on the other.

I mean, why not do it? There's no secret miner code. It's not like the Brotherhood of Industrialists will take away blueprints. Hell, a huge, huge chunk of our intel comes from other miners diming people out.

"Hey man, saw you were operating in the area. Could you come over and gank Miner X. I want him out of this roid belt so I can get the good ore. Kthnx BFF 4lyfe."


Here's how that works then......

There are zero New Order gankers selling mining equipment. See how that works? You make stuff up....I say pfft, and blow it off.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#374 - 2013-09-19 14:13:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Tardbar
Doris Dents wrote:
Suicide ganking is one of the more difficult forms of PVP. For a decent chance of success you need perfect intel right down to which modules the target is fitting, then each gank requires maths and split second timing from everyone involved. Even then the whole gank can be ruined if the target wakes up and checks local or whatever. I'd put ganking on par with bombing or small gang PVP far as difficulty goes.


I don't know about you, but I find scanning down targets to be quite easy and I do with a week old alt.

As far as miner ganking, if they have full on yield, then failure is mostly on you and your skills.

If you can do 700 dps then you can with changes upwards to 75% to 99.99% always kill an untanked retreiver in 0.5.

Unless you didn't notice concord already in belt or that falcon.

Anyways, what I am trying to say I have ganked people before and we were fairly incompetent in the attempt by lack of coordination and someone tried to jam us and we still killed an untanked retriever. In that I mean we warped at different times and opened fired seconds off.

If I can do it, then I'm not really impressed with the skills of others claiming magical skills that it takes to ganks miners.

So ganking people isn't that hard is what I am trying to say. Anyone with half a brain can do it.

Ganking frieghters may take more effort, but that really is about getting enough people to listen to the FC and hitting F1 at the right time.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Lady Areola Fappington
#375 - 2013-09-19 14:14:58 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:


Here's how that works then......

There are zero New Order gankers selling mining equipment. See how that works? You make stuff up....I say pfft, and blow it off.



Wait, is this one of those "You can't do industry because you PVP" kinda things?


Thing is, even if I rattled off a list of name's, there'd be no way for you to verify it, so, same game would be played.

If you honestly think that New Order members are not taking advantage of a generated demand for mining equipment due to their own actions...wow man, just wow.

Guess I'm just going to have to go not-make another batch of Rettys and ice MLUs to not-sell 2 jumps away from an area I know gank teams work in.

I may also log in my FW alt to not-farm up some LP in order to not-sell implants.



But hey, if it helps you sleep at night, you go right on thinking gankers are big dumb stupidheads who can't "play the game" in EVE.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Renault T'Bonin
Doomheim
#376 - 2013-09-19 14:18:48 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

Ganking miners: Phhht. That's for the incompetents that can't handle low sec or 0.0. It might be allowed, it might even be an intended mechanic. But it wreaks of incompetence and desperation.

'Tis a common security blanket folks hang onto. But it's an illusion, and like all illusions, provides no real security or protection. Check the killboards. You'll see that your comforting illusion is just smoke on the wind.

Like security blankets and teddy bears everywhere, your illusion is a coping tactic to protect you from fear. Shed the fear; Your game will only improve.


You're either role playing, your not paying attention, or you need therapy.

If you gank in empire- you cannot make it elsewhere.

I'm not arguing that ganking should be removed form the game. I'm stating, directly, that you are incompetent. A waste of game space. A person who uses a marginal area of game mechanics to "get off" on the tears of others. You are desperate, incompetent, and unable to sustain yourself honestly- just like any other criminal.

If you'd like to deny that- it's almost as entertaining as a failed gank. So go ahead. Tell us how you are not a criminal?

CCP says your a criminal. Therefor you are a criminal. And like most criminals... you're pretty useless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#377 - 2013-09-19 14:22:38 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…and then people wonder why I, as a highsec industrialist, want to see nullsec industry moved to nullsec and highsec ganking made easier. Twisted

Because then you, as an experienced industrialist, will be handed a dramatic advantage by hampering the "entry to market"......courtesy of CCP?

No. Courtesy of other players, and it's not the entry into market that will be hampered, but the staying-power.

Renault T'Bonin wrote:
If you gank in empire- you cannot make it elsewhere.
…based on… what, exactly?
Lady Areola Fappington
#378 - 2013-09-19 14:26:32 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:


You're either role playing, your not paying attention, or you need therapy.

If you gank in empire- you cannot make it elsewhere.

I'm not arguing that ganking should be removed form the game. I'm stating, directly, that you are incompetent. A waste of game space. A person who uses a marginal area of game mechanics to "get off" on the tears of others. You are desperate, incompetent, and unable to sustain yourself honestly- just like any other criminal.

If you'd like to deny that- it's almost as entertaining as a failed gank. So go ahead. Tell us how you are not a criminal?

CCP says your a criminal. Therefor you are a criminal. And like most criminals... you're pretty useless.




Enough of this fippery and conniving subtle remarks. Tell us how you REALLY feel.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#379 - 2013-09-19 14:27:24 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

If you gank in empire- you cannot make it elsewhere.

I'm not arguing that ganking should be removed form the game. I'm stating, directly, that you are incompetent. A waste of game space. A person who uses a marginal area of game mechanics to "get off" on the tears of others. You are desperate, incompetent, and unable to sustain yourself honestly- just like any other criminal.
I cannot even begin to express how utterly wrong you are. But that's common in certain categories of folks. Then they learn better, and stop being wrong. When will you make that transition?

You didn't go check the killboards, did you? Zero points for failing to complete your homework assignment. Further, you haven't checked my forum history, either. So zero extra-credit points, too.

Go sit in the corner, and wear the dunce cap.
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#380 - 2013-09-19 14:27:27 UTC
Renault T'Bonin wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

Ganking miners: Phhht. That's for the incompetents that can't handle low sec or 0.0. It might be allowed, it might even be an intended mechanic. But it wreaks of incompetence and desperation.

'Tis a common security blanket folks hang onto. But it's an illusion, and like all illusions, provides no real security or protection. Check the killboards. You'll see that your comforting illusion is just smoke on the wind.

Like security blankets and teddy bears everywhere, your illusion is a coping tactic to protect you from fear. Shed the fear; Your game will only improve.


You're either role playing, your not paying attention, or you need therapy.

If you gank in empire- you cannot make it elsewhere.

I'm not arguing that ganking should be removed form the game. I'm stating, directly, that you are incompetent. A waste of game space. A person who uses a marginal area of game mechanics to "get off" on the tears of others. You are desperate, incompetent, and unable to sustain yourself honestly- just like any other criminal.

If you'd like to deny that- it's almost as entertaining as a failed gank. So go ahead. Tell us how you are not a criminal?

CCP says your a criminal. Therefor you are a criminal. And like most criminals... you're pretty useless.



Some reading for you.

"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.