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destroyers - gankers and high sec

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Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#281 - 2013-09-19 02:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcolm Shinhwa
Mallak Azaria wrote:

As someone who leads ganking fleets accross highsec, I can assure you that it is not mindless & a lot of work goes in to chaining successful ganks. The only thing miners see is the end result.


"I had no idea how much work this is. I thought you guys just undocked and wrecked ****." -- quote from newbie on their 2nd night of ganking with us.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#282 - 2013-09-19 05:29:45 UTC
You don't need to be the most amazing miner tank ever to survive ganks... you just need to be decent. If you are the miner in the tanked Procurer or Skiff, you are already less attractive than most of the other targets in the belt.

Could someone take out my Skiff? You bet. Have they yet? No. Why not? Probably because for the cost of the number of destroyers it would take, they can get several other kills.

I have yet to meet the 2 destroyers who can take me out in 0.5 space, where I usually mine. I will be duly impressed when I do - those will be some impressive gankers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#283 - 2013-09-19 05:56:11 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:

except that it should not be profitable, that was already stated.



That badly worded statement was aimed at unfitted barge hulls.

An unfitted barge should not be profitable to gank and never has been. CCP thought that hulks were being ganked because the hull was profitable which has never been true. It was again, clueless high sec bears getting into a rage and posting lies for 8 months that resulted in that quote and CCPs actions in the miner buffs.

CCP now regrets those barge changes as they were bad and we learned that we cannot just sit back and troll the clueless as they cry about how life is so unfair that their actions can have a negetive impact on themselves. This is why we now take the time to counter every whine thread the bears put up with real numbers and facts that CCP will look at and instantly know what is going on and not be fooled into bad balance passes again.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#284 - 2013-09-19 06:12:19 UTC
Yea... I'm sure CCP appreciates it, baltec... Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#285 - 2013-09-19 06:53:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CCP thought that hulks were being ganked because the hull was profitable which has never been true.


In the vast majority of cases, it actually was. I spent a lot of time ganking Hulks & profiting solely from the T2 salvage. Only very occasionally did I get garbage salvage.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#286 - 2013-09-19 06:55:28 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Yea... I'm sure CCP appreciates it, baltec... Blink


I'm sure they do aswell, since reasonable argument backed up by facts can potentially stop them from making pants-on-head changes such as how they buffed barges.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#287 - 2013-09-19 07:02:29 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
I'm sure they do aswell, since reasonable argument backed up by facts can potentially stop them from making pants-on-head changes such as how they buffed barges.

Sure... wait... it's still CCP we are talking about, yes?

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#288 - 2013-09-19 07:22:54 UTC
The discussion is a little moot. In EVE, there is no shortage of genuine sociopaths.

If you undock, you do so acknowledging that there is a strong culture where committing to a suicide attack (of any scale) against an otherwise 'unattractive' or 'unprofitable' target isn't just normal, it's encouraged.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Lady Areola Fappington
#289 - 2013-09-19 07:52:06 UTC
Twylla wrote:
In EVE, there is no shortage of genuine sociopaths.




You do know, you can lose your practice credentials if you hand out a diagnosis without performing a proper examination, right?

You aren't misrepresenting or falsely impersonating a Mental Health Professional, are you?



The term you were wanting is Antisocial (Dissocial) Personality Disorder, BTW. Sociopathy hasn't been used in mental health for awhile.


Also, issues determining the difference between fantasy (EVE) and Real Life is a common symptom of delusional psychosis. Like, say, attempting to determine someone's mental health state via actions in a video game...

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#290 - 2013-09-19 08:04:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Twylla wrote:
The discussion is a little moot. In EVE, there is no shortage of genuine sociopaths.

Oh no, you can't say things like that, they are just having FUN! Blink

...but I agree, the discussion is moot. I mean, CCP doesn't even manage to make mining an interesting/worthwhile profession that doesn't involve mind numbing repetition, so why there are still people here thinking that they will fix "their game" (ganking) is beyond me... but hey, I'm just a useless industrialist, what do I know? Blink

EDIT: ...and Areola... nah, forget it, you aren't worth the affort. Roll

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#291 - 2013-09-19 08:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Twylla wrote:
In EVE, there is no shortage of genuine sociopaths.




You do know, you can lose your practice credentials if you hand out a diagnosis without performing a proper examination, right?

You aren't misrepresenting or falsely impersonating a Mental Health Professional, are you?



The term you were wanting is Antisocial (Dissocial) Personality Disorder, BTW. Sociopathy hasn't been used in mental health for awhile.


Also, issues determining the difference between fantasy (EVE) and Real Life is a common symptom of delusional psychosis. Like, say, attempting to determine someone's mental health state via actions in a video game...



1. One does not need a professional license to correctly associate a behavioral pattern to a dictionary definition. One does, however, to prescribe treatment or to establish a record by which the person may claim status such as disability. Further, it's obvious you are trolling in an attempt to invoke fear of some violation, which has failed.

2. Using the term 'antisocial' in an environment discussion on the internet begs the fallacious and assinine argument that the behaviour in question is 'social' in nature due to their interaction with victims. Ergo, I selected a deprecated term which doesn't bait the arguement.

3. People who play EVE are real people, and exhibit human behavior in their interactions with others in a virtual environment. Whether or not an assessed behavioral pattern exists in both virtual behavior and the 'real life' behavior of the same person is highly dependant on the individual.

4. You can not, even by rhetoric, associate delusional psychosis on a person without assessing the real person to determine if non-normal behavior is present.

5. Go back to school. You are not the smartest person in the room.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#292 - 2013-09-19 08:28:41 UTC
typical flame on thread the OP makes a valid point and the rest of you blatantly avoid the point in question and blar blar blar rubbish.

Ganking is out of control deal with it.

In cases of gankage go to http://www.samaritans.org they are there to help you help your selfShocked
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#293 - 2013-09-19 08:30:54 UTC
Twylla wrote:
5. Go back to school.

Pretty much this... still, you used some big words on that poor ignorant NO tool... could cause damage. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#294 - 2013-09-19 08:35:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
Shalua Rui wrote:
Twylla wrote:
5. Go back to school.

Pretty much this... still, you used some big words on that poor ignorant NO tool... could cause damage. Blink



Sadly, I have a habit of accidentally making people feel stupid.

I wondered what rage-troll could emerge when I tried. Especially when I get to respond as such to one of the people at the top of the 'likely sociopath' list :) Truth hurts the shamelessly ingorant. Every time.

Cognitive dissonance does, in fact, hurt. It's why denial occurs instead of rational evaluation and acceptance of technical fact.

And for the statement itself about sociopaths in EVE:

"...sociopathic persons show readiness to commit apparently immoral acts without compunction, and are guided to abnormal extent by considerations of immediate self-interest."

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF01178212#page-1

Taken into the environment of EVE Online, highsec ganking (Nonconsentual combat in a declared 'safe zone) would correlate appropriately to an 'immoral act'. Highsec exhibits a similar environment to the Real World in that nothing exists to mechanically prevent immoral behavior from taking place, refuting the implication of consent. The presence of an authority which issues punishment based on laws (CONCORD) strengthens that similiarity.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Mythrandier
Solace Corp
#295 - 2013-09-19 08:51:44 UTC


This thread is amazing. It really is.
We are discussing a game, that is based around blowing up space ships, yet still people throw the old “If you shot stuff you must be a psycho” line around.

If you don’t like shooting things, why did you start playing a game that’s based around shooting things?

Yes, yes I know there are other things to do (I have an industrialist alt myself) but when we first saw the ads or trailers for this game, it wasn’t amazing footage of huge fleets… sitting perfectly still… mining, was it?


"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -  D. Adams.
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#296 - 2013-09-19 08:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
Mythrandier wrote:


This thread is amazing. It really is.
We are discussing a game, that is based around blowing up space ships, yet still people throw the old “If you shot stuff you must be a psycho” line around.

If you don’t like shooting things, why did you start playing a game that’s based around shooting things?

Yes, yes I know there are other things to do (I have an industrialist alt myself) but when we first saw the ads or trailers for this game, it wasn’t amazing footage of huge fleets… sitting perfectly still… mining, was it?




That's a CCP problem. Half the game (the part where you build stuff) exists, is functional, but is not 'fun'. While a few will find 'enjoyment' in performing tasks similar to a non-game environment (such as station traders and nulsec moongoo/capship production), the process of procuring minerals has become highly abusive.

People shooting people is a game. There are places for it. Lowsec, Nulsec. Wars, Duels. However, one has to ask the question 'are these people sick' when it comes to nonconsentual combat (highsec) specifically targeting non-threat targets (industrialists) via metagame exploitation, especially at the current levels it is taking place, and for no reason other than for the sake of doing it.

In other games, these are your team killers, your bug exploiters, The guy that takes the only tank your team has and deliberately drives it off a cliff.. People who would normally be banned in a heartbeat. Yet in EVE they thrive.

Highsec mining keeps the price of base minerals down. Killing them is against the self-interest of anyone that shoots ships (opponent turnaround) or gets shot in one (your own turn around).

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2013-09-19 09:13:02 UTC
Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth wrote:
typical flame on thread the OP makes a valid point and the rest of you blatantly avoid the point in question and blar blar blar rubbish.

Ganking is out of control deal with it.

In cases of gankage go to http://www.samaritans.org they are there to help you help your selfShocked


Barge kills are at a record low.

Around 40 freighters are ganked out of 500,000 to 1,000,000 trips made a month.


Where is all of this out of control ganking?
Llwelyn- ap-Lorwerth
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#298 - 2013-09-19 09:14:21 UTC
This so called game strips away your morality to such an extent that you make stupid remarks about not giving a **** about causing utter misery to another person just because you can. The utterly sad part about that is the plesaure you get from doing it. Why not pull the wings off a butterfly and laugh at the poor thing as it squirms around in agony you don't need internet space ships to get your jollies.

To all you who fail to apply any built in morals to this situation I say GET OUT MORE try applying your brutishness down the pub where you'll get the S-IT kicked out of you for real.

My vote goes to renaming Eve Online to Misery Online it's more apt and has a certain ring about it.PPP
Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#299 - 2013-09-19 09:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Twylla
Hop in an orca and route between any hubs and count the number of scans you go through.

Autopilot in a nereus between hubs and count the number of ships that lock you.

Hop into any belt in .5/.6 belt in an unfitted coveter and see how many people hop in and target you.

My answer? about 3-4 an hour.

Also, hulkageddon isn't in season.

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#300 - 2013-09-19 09:16:06 UTC
Twylla wrote:
That's a CCP problem. Half the game (the part where you build stuff) exists, is functional, but is not 'fun'. While a few will find 'enjoyment' in performing tasks similar to a non-game environment (such as station traders and nulsec moongoo/capship production), the process of procuring minerals has become highly abusive.

Exactly... and it actually should be CCP's job to fix that, not the job of some cellar kids imagining them self as "saviors of the game" by discriminating/degrading a whole part of the player base to be their personal toys/slaves.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)