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Balancing hi-sec piracy and making it more realistic.

First post First post
Author
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#121 - 2013-09-18 06:23:18 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Make highsec safer


Yes please. Thats why it's called high security space, low security space and lawless space are that way ->


Unfamiliar with sarcasm, are we.
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2013-09-18 07:32:03 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
The only balance piracy requires at this point is a loud YARRRRRR! sound clip be played whenever an act of piracy is happening.



That, and add eye patches, hook hands, peglegs, and pirate hats...oooh! and shoulder parrots! add all that to the NEX!



Pirates! Yarrrr!


This man just found a good use for WiS. To F&I with him! To the altar of CCP gods! I want my cybernetic scifi-styled eyepatch, right now.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph

Luna Void
#123 - 2013-09-18 09:02:50 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:


Luna Void wrote:
If CCP promotes player income by piracy instead of industry, EVE online won't last another decade due to newbies feeling the game too hostile in their trial period and thus not subrcribing, not to mention the ragers who want to build instead of to shoot; player base lockdown, and eventually player migration to another MMO where no one can touch the things you achieve.

Where did we hear this before? Oh right, 10 years ago. Roll CCP isn't so stupid as to create something where only 1 play style is valid, as is apparent by their current balance. Give them some credit.

Luna Void wrote:
I feel sorry for those who found a game where they can be the bad guys and do it without giving a damn about other people when there are so many other ways to make the same profit.

I feel sorry for those who found a game where other people can be bad guys and do it without giving a damn about how other people feel over losing at said game. You lost a ship to gankers? Well, you lost that round, reship and try again. Would you like a congratulatory star everytime you managed to undock and re-dock without getting blown up? Roll You say there are many ways to make a profit, and this is one of them. So you are unable to accept the choices other people, both victim and perpetrator, make?

Your arguments have been posted before, and guess what? "OH NOES EVE IS DYING BECAUSE GANKERS" was around 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 5 months ago and 5 days ago. Think of some better arguments instead repeating baseless drivel that has been repeated and refuted.


If you really want to look 10 years back: frigates at 50k ISK, destroyers at 80k, cruisers at 1M; right now? then times that price. Why? coz everyone started loosing ships in silly actions, PvP and such, (mainly fueled by Factional Warfare and grievous increase in ganking activity).

These people understands none of supply and demand, stock and industry, they just insta buy their lost ship to keep loosing it 5 times a day. If you keep going this way, in less than other 10 years suicidal ganking ship replace cost will be too much and you'll be trying to mine to build your own ships while getting ganked by people who can afford the suicidal ganking penalties

Apologies if I don't encourage actions that cause the player based market to get ruined.

- I'm not pissed about noobz asking noob questions in corp channel; I am, however, pissed at noobs who think corp channel is a noob questions chat. -

Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#124 - 2013-09-18 09:57:44 UTC
I fully agree at the moment, beeing a pirate isnt really a big deal, why CCP didnt introduce unclaimable NPC Space with Pirate Stations if your Standing towards them is Good enough you can dock like usual.

Hell lets get them be neutral towards the Player if my Sansha Standing is over 5 why should they attack me any longer?

So Pirates would have their own home no need for Sec Standing farming and such a Bullshit.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#125 - 2013-09-18 11:32:56 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I fully agree at the moment, beeing a pirate isnt really a big deal, why CCP didnt introduce unclaimable NPC Space with Pirate Stations if your Standing towards them is Good enough you can dock like usual.

Hell lets get them be neutral towards the Player if my Sansha Standing is over 5 why should they attack me any longer?

So Pirates would have their own home no need for Sec Standing farming and such a Bullshit.

That would be cool. Unfortunately everything must be available to everyone without penalty or special access, nothing should have to be worked at or take effort to attain. This idea goes against the ideals of the instant gratification crowd.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#126 - 2013-09-18 13:20:33 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
While I agree if you undock you're a target, I do not agree with low penalties and low cost of the lol ganks.


those costs were much lower a little while ago
when the costs were raised there was a lot of tears shed ... ganker tears mostly


The most flown Mining Barge used to be the hulk
it cost roughly 200m and could fit 3 T2 strip miners
it could be ganked with 1 destroyer ...

the cost disparity was enormous
now it is less so
Soylent Jade
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2013-09-18 13:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Soylent Jade
Dr0000 Maulerant wrote:
Load cookie cutter catalyst fit, undock, warp to scout, scram/point fire. Collect ISK from someone elses work.

Let me see if i can find that little violin....


Ganking miners isn't profitable unless the miner is blingy fail fit and the loot fairy smiles on you.


Azrael Dinn wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Make highsec safer


Yes please. Thats why it's called high security space, low security space and lawless space are that way ->


It's called "high security", not "complete security" for a reason.

Making hisec better...one Catalyst at a time

minerbumping.com

Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#128 - 2013-09-18 16:41:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Owen Levanth
lollerwaffle wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
I like this. And to balance it out, every CONCORD-ship a player destroys earns you a "strike" on your character. The sec loss and the other penalties stay, of course. You just survive with your ship.

Let's say every character gets five strikes on top of normal penatlies like sec loss, which means you get five "Get out of jail free"-cards to run off after a gank. But if your character commits to many crimes, CONCORD orders your clones destroyed and you can't make new ones anymore. No jump clones, no medical clone. Nothing. If your character gets podded, you die and your character gets automatically erased.

Now you can make a new gank-character, but you got severely punished for your crimes, so everyone wins!

One of the most stupid things I've seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

You want to perma ban a character for ganking? Seriously? Are you an idiot?

You kill waves and waves of NPC pirates, maybe if your ship pops, you should have a chance of permadeath if you get podded by the NPC's? After all, you've been killing them in droves, and they surely have a bone to pick with you. Also, since NPC's have very limited AI and all missions are predictable down to the number of NPC's, if you're stupid/rubbish enough to die to them, you deserve character permadeath. Right? Roll


No I don't want a "perma ban" on a character, just sweet, sweet destruction. You can always make more, hell you can even kill your own characters and replace them if you want. Just gank to your heart's content and after enough ganks CONCORD gets it's revenge. And you get to make a new gank-character.

Also sometimes CONCORD should just flip out over the stupid **** we players pull and bring out the big guns: CONCORD-dreadnoughts and supercapitals with old school AOE-doomsdays. That would be a sight to behold!
Caliph Muhammed
Perkone
Caldari State
#129 - 2013-09-18 19:00:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Caliph Muhammed
Luna Void wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:

Congratulations, you just described every law-enforcement agency ever. So much for EVE being unrealistic.


Sigh* kids want only explosions and violence with high epeen nowadays...

So, an internet game gives you the chance to gain in game currency by pissing others and you yell "hell yeah!!", EVE is supposed to be in hands of mature players working on groups to make an empire out of nothing, not for kids making cash by suicidally killing others.

If you promote suicidal ganking, you promote anarchy. yay for CONCORD shooting at everyone just coz they are in a miner ship (which of course means they are rich players who have infinite replaceable ships) and someone else can loot it. Hope that feature comes soon enough. coff*

If CCP promotes player income by piracy instead of industry, EVE online won't last another decade due to newbies feeling the game too hostile in their trial period and thus not subrcribing, not to mention the ragers who want to build instead of to shoot; player base lockdown, and eventually player migration to another MMO where no one can touch the things you achieve.

I feel sorry for those who found a game where they can be the bad guys and do it without giving a damn about other people when there are so many other ways to make the same profit.


Your diatribe nauseates me.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-09-18 19:37:50 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
While I agree if you undock you're a target, I do not agree with low penalties and low cost of the lol ganks.


those costs were much lower a little while ago
when the costs were raised there was a lot of tears shed ... ganker tears mostly


The most flown Mining Barge used to be the hulk
it cost roughly 200m and could fit 3 T2 strip miners
it could be ganked with 1 destroyer ...

the cost disparity was enormous
now it is less so


It can still be ganked with 1 destroyer.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2013-09-18 19:40:15 UTC
Owen Levanth wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
I like this. And to balance it out, every CONCORD-ship a player destroys earns you a "strike" on your character. The sec loss and the other penalties stay, of course. You just survive with your ship.

Let's say every character gets five strikes on top of normal penatlies like sec loss, which means you get five "Get out of jail free"-cards to run off after a gank. But if your character commits to many crimes, CONCORD orders your clones destroyed and you can't make new ones anymore. No jump clones, no medical clone. Nothing. If your character gets podded, you die and your character gets automatically erased.

Now you can make a new gank-character, but you got severely punished for your crimes, so everyone wins!

One of the most stupid things I've seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

You want to perma ban a character for ganking? Seriously? Are you an idiot?

You kill waves and waves of NPC pirates, maybe if your ship pops, you should have a chance of permadeath if you get podded by the NPC's? After all, you've been killing them in droves, and they surely have a bone to pick with you. Also, since NPC's have very limited AI and all missions are predictable down to the number of NPC's, if you're stupid/rubbish enough to die to them, you deserve character permadeath. Right? Roll


No I don't want a "perma ban" on a character, just sweet, sweet destruction. You can always make more, hell you can even kill your own characters and replace them if you want. Just gank to your heart's content and after enough ganks CONCORD gets it's revenge. And you get to make a new gank-character.

Also sometimes CONCORD should just flip out over the stupid **** we players pull and bring out the big guns: CONCORD-dreadnoughts and supercapitals with old school AOE-doomsdays. That would be a sight to behold!


Why should it be left to Concord to get revenge for you?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#132 - 2013-09-18 20:45:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
While I agree if you undock you're a target, I do not agree with low penalties and low cost of the lol ganks.


those costs were much lower a little while ago
when the costs were raised there was a lot of tears shed ... ganker tears mostly


The most flown Mining Barge used to be the hulk
it cost roughly 200m and could fit 3 T2 strip miners
it could be ganked with 1 destroyer ...

the cost disparity was enormous
now it is less so


It can still be ganked with 1 destroyer.


not entirely

the old gank destroyers were entirely basic tech 1 fit, with cheap tech 1 ammo
the cost of replacing the destroyer & its fittings was covered if just 1 of the 3 strip-miners dropped
more often than not, you got 2, and occasionally all 3

now they need more expensive guns & expensive faction/t2 ammo
1 strip miner no longer covers the bill
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#133 - 2013-09-18 21:23:15 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Why should it be left to Concord to get revenge for you?


Because due to their pathological inability to actually play the game(let alone, play it properly) makes it impossible for them to, duh.
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Owen Levanth
Sagittarius Unlimited Exploration
#134 - 2013-09-18 22:25:25 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
lollerwaffle wrote:
Owen Levanth wrote:
I like this. And to balance it out, every CONCORD-ship a player destroys earns you a "strike" on your character. The sec loss and the other penalties stay, of course. You just survive with your ship.

Let's say every character gets five strikes on top of normal penatlies like sec loss, which means you get five "Get out of jail free"-cards to run off after a gank. But if your character commits to many crimes, CONCORD orders your clones destroyed and you can't make new ones anymore. No jump clones, no medical clone. Nothing. If your character gets podded, you die and your character gets automatically erased.

Now you can make a new gank-character, but you got severely punished for your crimes, so everyone wins!

One of the most stupid things I've seen on these forums, and that's saying a lot.

You want to perma ban a character for ganking? Seriously? Are you an idiot?

You kill waves and waves of NPC pirates, maybe if your ship pops, you should have a chance of permadeath if you get podded by the NPC's? After all, you've been killing them in droves, and they surely have a bone to pick with you. Also, since NPC's have very limited AI and all missions are predictable down to the number of NPC's, if you're stupid/rubbish enough to die to them, you deserve character permadeath. Right? Roll


No I don't want a "perma ban" on a character, just sweet, sweet destruction. You can always make more, hell you can even kill your own characters and replace them if you want. Just gank to your heart's content and after enough ganks CONCORD gets it's revenge. And you get to make a new gank-character.

Also sometimes CONCORD should just flip out over the stupid **** we players pull and bring out the big guns: CONCORD-dreadnoughts and supercapitals with old school AOE-doomsdays. That would be a sight to behold!


Why should it be left to Concord to get revenge for you?


I have no idea, honestly. Luckily CONCORD was supposed to get revenge for the stupid **** players pull on them, not for a player. Which is why I suggested the use of old school doomsdays. You know, the kind which would waste everyone on grid who is not CONCORD? Gankers and miners alike would be set on fire.

Which is also honestly not much dumber then making HighSec even safer. Hell, as I was trying out COSMOS-missions, I got CONCORDed after I forgot my safeties were still off. After getting blown up by overzealous CONCORD protecting the property of those precious Angel-pirates I can easily see CONCORD simply killing everyone in the next iteration of making HighSec "safer". HIghSec already is ridiculously safe. Every new step to make it even safer just leads to ingenious players finding new ways to continue doing what they're doing right now.

It's simply a weird arms race at this point, with no side having a chance to actually win. Well, they could theoretically win someday, but their final victory would also kill Eve and therefore would be a little shallow.

Instead of wasting time on this nonsense, CCP should just dial back the safety of HIghSec a bit and then let it be. There is lots of other stuff to do, after all. More important stuff.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#135 - 2013-09-19 03:17:33 UTC
Quote:
Instead of wasting time on this nonsense, CCP should just dial back the safety of HIghSec a bit and then let it be. There is lots of other stuff to do, after all. More important stuff.


For a long time, my position has been "fix wardecs". Highsec is simply not supposed to as safe as it currently is. By being able to dodge wardecs, any non suicidal method of inflicting loss on another player has been eliminated.

My suggestion was, that leaving a corp during an active or pending wardec should generate 4 killrights on you, made available to the ceo and directors of the corp who decced you, to do with as they see fit.

To further reinforce this, NPC corps should levy an extremely high tax rate on players who are older than 30 days. This does not therefore penalize new players (since apparently the Icelandic equivalent of Moses coming down from the Mount happened recently to tell CCP that new players need to be coddled...), but would penalize use of NPC corps as shields from risk.

A tax rate of about 20% would be about right. Not crippling, merely penalizing. NPC corps are for NPCs and noobs, folks. For everything else, there's the Help Channel.

That, or give me the ability to dec NPC corps in exchange for locking myself out of their stations.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#136 - 2013-09-19 03:34:53 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Kitty Bear wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
While I agree if you undock you're a target, I do not agree with low penalties and low cost of the lol ganks.


those costs were much lower a little while ago
when the costs were raised there was a lot of tears shed ... ganker tears mostly


The most flown Mining Barge used to be the hulk
it cost roughly 200m and could fit 3 T2 strip miners
it could be ganked with 1 destroyer ...

the cost disparity was enormous
now it is less so


It can still be ganked with 1 destroyer.


not entirely

the old gank destroyers were entirely basic tech 1 fit, with cheap tech 1 ammo
the cost of replacing the destroyer & its fittings was covered if just 1 of the 3 strip-miners dropped
more often than not, you got 2, and occasionally all 3

now they need more expensive guns & expensive faction/t2 ammo
1 strip miner no longer covers the bill


Before the barge buff, T2 destroyers were the thing to use. You could solo the Hulk & the salvage from it would yield profit before you started taking loot in to account. This made suicide ganking profitable at the base level, because the Hulk could have zero module fitted & you would always profit from the act.

T1 destroyers are the new thing to use because they're more isk-efficient to use, it has nothing to do with profit.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Twylla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#137 - 2013-09-19 05:09:02 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
So, being unable to fly low agility ships, unable to engage in PVE activities, shootable anywhere we go, and other such issues are not severe enough? (this of course, assuming you go outlaw, if yer smart enough to manage your sec status, more power to you)


Here's my counter proposal, for PVE types...the more red crosses you kill, the bigger ships they fling at you. Unlimited scale up, eventually, you will lose your ship to a superpower 'rat. It just makes sense.....



You could always run missions in lowsec. Unless you're afraid of your own medicine (and I know you [plural] are)

~Weapons R&D technician, arms manufacturer, weapons dealer, wormhole project manager, nulsec fleet pilot, armored warfare command/mindlink specialist, thanatos pilot, alliance executor, now retired~

I've done everything. NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#138 - 2013-09-19 05:10:59 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
I fully agree at the moment, beeing a pirate isnt really a big deal, why CCP didnt introduce unclaimable NPC Space with Pirate Stations if your Standing towards them is Good enough you can dock like usual.

Hell lets get them be neutral towards the Player if my Sansha Standing is over 5 why should they attack me any longer?

So Pirates would have their own home no need for Sec Standing farming and such a Bullshit.

For the LoLz.
They are pirates after all. And you aren't in their actual corp.
Xilia Otsu
Godspeed Us To Sea
The Gorgon Spawn
#139 - 2013-10-19 08:38:24 UTC

nah.
Highsec ganking is the well-balanced one. Some of my friends can travel in their multibillion incursion-running monsters through hisec without being ganked, why you can't?
I WANNA AUTOPILOT MAH VINDICATOR CUZ IM TO LAZY TO DRIVE IT, huh?
EVE was never a peaceful place. Shouting like "EVE DYING BECAUSE SUICIDE-GANKERS" has been in the game before you entered it, and guess what? You're playng it.

So take a deep breath and do not autopilot valuable cargo.
Frozen Chief
Doomheim
#140 - 2013-11-06 12:02:14 UTC
+1, better than the other ideas Ive seen thrown around about this issue.