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Still no Orca Love
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#21 - 2013-09-17 12:49:31 UTC
Kelmurdoch wrote:
Outside of boosting in high sec the Orca was rendered useless with the new Industrials just released.



Lol U so fu-nny.

Which Industrial can carry 90,000+ m3 of product ? (ore excluded)

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#22 - 2013-09-17 13:35:23 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Kelmurdoch wrote:
Outside of boosting in high sec the Orca was rendered useless with the new Industrials just released.



Lol U so fu-nny.

Which Industrial can carry 90,000+ m3 of product ? (ore excluded)

Or 400.000m3 of assembled (and possibly rigged) ships.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
dreadshane
Hell or HiWater
#23 - 2013-09-17 15:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: dreadshane
Gianath wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


I'll chime in.

#1 - The Orca's ore bay is only 50k versus a Mackinaw's 35. And an Orca is 68 times larger than a Mackinaw by volume. Yes, I know you can outfit the orca for additional cargo, but why even bother having an ore hold at all if you don't have a specialize bay that will even support two mining ships? Either the mining bay should be larger to account for the mining barge changes, or done away with entirely and just added to regular cargo space.

#2 - The Orca can only fit two mining barges inside unless you repackage and store them. It really needs an extra 50k of storage so it can carry an actual mining fleet.

Everything else about the Orca I love and don't think it needs updating.

my point exactly, Hell link it to the Mining Director Skill, With a 100k cap, it would be nice to hear from the Devs on this
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#24 - 2013-09-17 15:13:04 UTC
Gianath wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


I'll chime in.

#1 - but why even bother having an ore hold at all if you don't have a specialize bay that will even support two mining ships?

#2 - The Orca can only fit two mining barges inside unless you repackage and store them. It really needs an extra 50k of storage so it can carry an actual mining fleet.

Everything else about the Orca I love and don't think it needs updating.


1) Each of my Macks dumps the contents from mining into the Orca exactly twice to fill it. It does indeed support a 2 person mining fleet, and quite nicely thank you.

2) 50K is not enough to carry another assembled mining ship. Sorry.




"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#25 - 2013-09-17 15:20:46 UTC
dreadshane wrote:
my point exactly, it would be nice to hear from the Devs on this

Devs don't post in this forum. Try F & I if you want a dev to see it.
Kelmurdoch
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#26 - 2013-09-17 17:41:09 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Gianath wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


I'll chime in.

#1 - but why even bother having an ore hold at all if you don't have a specialize bay that will even support two mining ships?

#2 - The Orca can only fit two mining barges inside unless you repackage and store them. It really needs an extra 50k of storage so it can carry an actual mining fleet.

Everything else about the Orca I love and don't think it needs updating.


1) Each of my Macks dumps the contents from mining into the Orca exactly twice to fill it. It does indeed support a 2 person mining fleet, and quite nicely thank you.

2) 50K is not enough to carry another assembled mining ship. Sorry.



A two person mining fleet supported by an Orca is a waste of a pilot. You'll mine more material with a third Mack instead.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#27 - 2013-09-17 18:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Kelmurdoch wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Gianath wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


I'll chime in.

#1 - but why even bother having an ore hold at all if you don't have a specialize bay that will even support two mining ships?

#2 - The Orca can only fit two mining barges inside unless you repackage and store them. It really needs an extra 50k of storage so it can carry an actual mining fleet.

Everything else about the Orca I love and don't think it needs updating.


1) Each of my Macks dumps the contents from mining into the Orca exactly twice to fill it. It does indeed support a 2 person mining fleet, and quite nicely thank you.

2) 50K is not enough to carry another assembled mining ship. Sorry.



A two person mining fleet supported by an Orca is a waste of a pilot. You'll mine more material with a third Mack instead.



Wrong. Dead wrong. Too slow without the Orca Boost. This has been beaten to death in GD as fact for years. Please, do keep up.

Believe what you want, but don't try to negate my own results from 3 1/2 years of almost all combinations of mining fleets.

Also, Orca's Shield Resist Link boosting has saved me from at least 2 gankings.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Mac Munoz
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-09-17 19:05:05 UTC
Wait, you guys have your Orca's leave the POS?
Dave Stark
#29 - 2013-09-17 19:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Victoria Sin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
If you're going to give love to an industrial, the Rorqual needs some work. The Fleet hanger is far too small. The ore hold should be open for fleet access (OK, if it is already I can't find the option).


ore bays aren't open to the fleet, afaik. generally it's up to the rorq pilot to drag it from the fleet hangar to the ore bay.

not like the rorq pilot has much else to do other than run compression jobs...


Except he can't fit a full Mackinaw worth into his bay.


except he can when the fleet hangar is 40k, and the ore bay is 50k.

40k and 50k are both greater than 35k.

edit: oh we're talking about the rorqual, and i see, it's curious that it has a smaller fleet hangar than the orca... shame this thread is about orcas not rorquals. then again who cares about rorquals storage capacity. it never leaves a pos unless you have a death wish.
Dave Stark
#30 - 2013-09-17 20:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


Except that it's not when it comes to Ore bay size.. The Miasmos can get an ore capacity of 68,000m3.


and the orca can get a total capacity of around 92k from 1 bay alone. also, a bay that can hold anything.

next irrelevant argument?
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
#31 - 2013-09-17 20:53:08 UTC
Orca is used for hisec mining, so why not using a freighter for ore conveying ? Orca is as slow and can't boost mining op while warping/docked.

---   Buying T2 ship bpos since 2005  ---
Dave Stark
#32 - 2013-09-17 21:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Lara Dantreb wrote:
Orca is used for hisec mining, so why not using a freighter for ore conveying ? Orca is as slow and can't boost mining op while warping/docked.


you can haul with an orca without dropping boosts, i do it every time i mine.

boosts are only relevant when a strip miner finishes and starts it's cycles. warp and dock between activations and you're fine. that means aligning during a cycle, warping and docking and unloading during the cycle, align and start boosts when you undock, then when the new strip miner cycle begins warp back to the belt.

it's not difficult.
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
#33 - 2013-09-17 21:02:33 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


Except that it's not when it comes to Ore bay size.. The Miasmos can get an ore capacity of 68,000m3.


and the orca can get a total capacity of around 92k from 1 bay alone. also, a bay that can hold anything.

next irrelevant argument?


It takes 38+ Miasmos (265,000 M3) to match the size of one Orca's volume (10,250,000). So those 38 Miasmos can carry 2,584,000 m3 of cargo, compared to an Orca's ability to carry maybe 200k if they completely gimp the tank?

I'm not sure why you keep saying that updating the ore bay isn't necessary. Eve's evolved, and this is just one little detail that needs to be reconsidered to reflect the new reality of industrial craft changes.
Dave Stark
#34 - 2013-09-17 21:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Gianath wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the orca is already better than the t1 industrials, what exactly do you want?


Except that it's not when it comes to Ore bay size.. The Miasmos can get an ore capacity of 68,000m3.


and the orca can get a total capacity of around 92k from 1 bay alone. also, a bay that can hold anything.

next irrelevant argument?


It takes 38+ Miasmos (265,000 M3) to match the size of one Orca's volume (10,250,000). So those 38 Miasmos can carry 2,584,000 m3 of cargo, compared to an Orca's ability to carry maybe 200k if they completely gimp the tank?

I'm not sure why you keep saying that updating the ore bay isn't necessary. Eve's evolved, and this is just one little detail that needs to be reconsidered to reflect the new reality of industrial craft changes.


and if you had those 38 miasmos pilots in orcas....
you'd have 38 ships with more ehp (feel free to prove that one wrong, i haven't EFT'd it myself. however i doubt a renamed iteron out tanks even a cargo expanded orca) and more cargo!
****, even a tanked orca has more space for ore than a ******* miasmos.
just so you're aware; volume of ships are irrelevant, especially when you realise the orca has a 400k ship bay, fitting services, etc.

i say it because the size of the ore bay isn't an issue. sure it would be nice if it were bigger but at it's current size there's currently no problem.
besides, the orca is an industrial command ship. if cargo space is really an issue then freighters can now scoop from cans/fleet hangars. enjoy.
sennert
Eve-Holdings Inc.
#35 - 2013-09-17 21:56:55 UTC
My idea for the Orca is not to nerf or buff it in any way. Rather increase its flexibility. How I suggest to do that is by industrial reconfiguration. As it stands there's roughly 92000 m3 of cargo space 40000 for ore, 50000 for corp, and 400000 m3 ship hanger space. With industrial reconfiguration the pilot would be able to adjust those hangers to fit the mission. This would also allow the Orca a larger roll in hauling anything from fitted ships to hauling ore out of belts.
Dave Stark
#36 - 2013-09-18 05:22:43 UTC
sennert wrote:
My idea for the Orca is not to nerf or buff it in any way. Rather increase its flexibility. How I suggest to do that is by industrial reconfiguration. As it stands there's roughly 92000 m3 of cargo space 40000 for ore, 50000 for corp, and 400000 m3 ship hanger space. With industrial reconfiguration the pilot would be able to adjust those hangers to fit the mission. This would also allow the Orca a larger roll in hauling anything from fitted ships to hauling ore out of belts.


if you want more cargo space; buy a freighter.

the orca is already pretty much the most flexible ship in the game.
sennert
Eve-Holdings Inc.
#37 - 2013-09-18 07:10:42 UTC
Yes buy a freighter but what fills the role tell you can either afford or train for it? There's a big hole as far as m3 of hanger space concerned. Orca is very flexible afk boosting in a pos or outside a station.
Linda Shadowborn
Dark Steel Industries
#38 - 2013-09-18 09:12:19 UTC
Orca is just perfect the way it is in my humble opinion.
Stop Looking
Nefarious Activities
#39 - 2013-09-18 10:00:36 UTC
Leave my Highsec-Carrier alone goddammit. Granted I am not using it for its intended mining-support role at all but it works beautifully as a kind of locust hive with some Friggy and TII Cruiser hulls and 10s align - Thank you 100mn MWD - plenty of storage and refitting capabilitys even in non station systems...

I am going to go on a rampage if I have to move rigged cruiser hulls via courier contracts in a Freighter again. Its slow enough as it is for BS´s.

That is all ;-)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#40 - 2013-09-18 12:40:57 UTC
sennert wrote:
Yes buy a freighter but what fills the role tell you can either afford or train for it? There's a big hole as far as m3 of hanger space concerned.



This is the root of the issue, and has been covered many many times in the past 3+ years I've been playing. There is a thread somewhere in Features and Ideas about it and CCP is quite aware of it.

Something in-between an Orca and the Freighter line would indeed be great as long as it's for packaged cargo and ore, but the Orca is just fine for what it was designed to do.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
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