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Market trading- very small profit

Author
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-17 10:55:43 UTC
After bankrupting myself I'm trying to make money via market trading however I've hit a problem

I've set up some sell orders for ammo but the competitive prices that they charge at the local trade up means there is very little profit to selling even a 100000 small antimatter ammo. I've tried setting up buy orders for items with larger margins but they take so long for stuff to come in that I won't have much to sell at the end of the day.

Faction ammo also seems to be very hard to get rid off if its not anti-matter.

I had stuck upon the idea of shipping laser from amarr to gallente space but after checking I find no-one buys them much in gallente space so thats ideas stuffed.

So what am I doing wrong?
AKilla Sunday
EVE Corporation 98582134
#2 - 2013-09-17 11:19:56 UTC
look into manufacturing. Look into suplying FW hubs - contact me ingame and I'll give you the perfect system/station.
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#3 - 2013-09-17 12:13:51 UTC
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.

One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-17 12:14:46 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.

One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location


I'm actually in Dodixie
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#5 - 2013-09-17 12:33:24 UTC
Then that is more than possible to do :)
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2013-09-17 12:43:52 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.

One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location


I'm actually in Dodixie


2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ...

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-09-17 12:47:00 UTC
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.

One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location


I'm actually in Dodixie


2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ...


yes but they still keep undercutting me
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#8 - 2013-09-17 13:01:04 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Rengerel en Distel wrote:
Paul Otichoda wrote:
Rhivre wrote:
Ammo is always a bit sketchy to do, it drops in missions, and is cheap and easy to produce by the ton.

One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location


I'm actually in Dodixie


2000 people in jita, 200 in dodixie. i wonder why it takes stuff longer to move ...


yes but they still keep undercutting me


A precious suggestion: trade better, not harder.
Uila Tsi
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-09-17 14:08:52 UTC
There are many reasons you could be having this problem. The biggest one I can think of is how much research have you done? You just posted in the new players thread about buying a faction ammo that doesn't sell and wondering why its not selling.Did you do the research to figure out what are good items to buy and sell? The market in eve is a good place to make money but it can take a lot of effort to figure out effective trading styles.

Another area of possible concern would be

How are your skills? Do you have good market related skills? Some people trade very high volumes for low returns to make decent money. How many order slots do you have? I personally do not have mine maxed but I have heard of people using all 305? on multiple characters to trade.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#10 - 2013-09-17 14:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical Chaos
I know you. You were that guy saying rockets were terrible based on your own opinion flying crappy meta level fits and argumented about Rockets needing a buff for like 2 months before actually training them to T2 and starting to own with them.

That being said I am not entirely sure if "Market PvP" is for you.

Anyway since you kept it civil so far I will actually read through this thread and throw you a bone. But please refer from making this a similar threadnaught like the Rocket thingie.

EDIT: Okay I have read through it.

You have the following problem:

Again yor skills are probably not up to par compared to your competition. You do not have the trade skills trained that are required to cut your expenses by as much as possible. These are:

Accounting & Broker Relations. These skills reduce the transaction tax when selling an item as well as the broker fees. You should start working towards these skills if you want to be serious on the market.

That being said you need to do your own research on items: You are looking for items that are not worth too much individually but have a nice margin between buy & sell preferrably with not a lot of competition by others. These exist but are hard to find.
Rykker Bow
Center for Advanced Studies
#11 - 2013-09-17 14:30:02 UTC
Paul Otichoda wrote:

So what am I doing wrong?


Move on to other areas of the market, there are many items available to trade.

If ammo, or any other item for that matter, is causing you to lose money you should look for different items to trade. In your position I would not try to adapt to the market dynamic given your skill level but rather search out items that work well with your current trading style. This strategy can be changed when you gather more experience, skills and capital and will enable you to have the power to have the market adapt to you.

gl

The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated - The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#12 - 2013-09-17 17:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhivre
Getting buy orders filled in Dixie can be a PITA, hence people often move things from Jita.

Certain items have buy orders fill slowly, others never get sold to buys (look at the history table to check if anything actually goes to buys), whereas some items have a decent amount coming in.

Do a bit of research using the price history table, look for items with a decent volume, and I always go for minimum 10% on high volume items cos I am lazy :p


taking a look at say, Antimatter M in Dixie:

Antimatter M

These are mostly going to sell orders.which means you would have to wait a while for new stuff to come in.

Taking Antimatter S

Antimatter S

Very very very small profit.

Antimatter S History

Very rarely going to buy orders (check the low price, and average)
Tsufuri Ormand
NE Procurement
#13 - 2013-09-17 22:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsufuri Ormand
Im no authority, but I can fund 2 accounts from trading and still maintain a growth of my wallet (slow but still). Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#14 - 2013-09-18 02:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
Im no authority, but I can fund 2 accounts from trading and still maintain a growth of my wallet (slow but still). Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies


This. At least when you are starting out.

I made my first 10B region trading faction and T2 ammo between Jita, Amarr and Dodixie. The hard part is identifying which items to buy and where/when to sell them.

If you can't figure it out after this then I strongly recommend you don't bother. People are not going to hold your hand on this topic for obvious reasons.

1. You want a spreadsheet or database with a typeID and typeName list
2. Google docs importxml
3. eve-central or evemarketdata API

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Eve Mogul
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2013-09-18 03:49:54 UTC
Rhivre wrote:
One thing to look at is maybe moving stuff out of Jita (the cash and carry of the universe) to relist at your chosen location


Tsufuri Ormand wrote:
Dont do station trading because its time consuming. Do some research on regional trading. You can buy 5 items for 400k in Jita, sell it for 2,5mil in another hub. You have just made 10mil profit on 1 kind of item. Find more such items and enjoy ISKies



Both Rhivre and Tsufuri are spot on - start thinking about how you can buy items cheaply (which realistically means buying out of Jita more often than not) and taking them somewhere that you know has demand for those particular items. Think about what else you've done in Eve when you weren't in a major hub and what items you needed at the time - someone has to supply them...


As for skills, there's good info in this thread if you're station trading (ughh, stab me...) but I've found that the biggest money is in inter-regional trading and HUGE sums of isk are made possible by training "Tycoon", and the higher you train it, the more isk you'll make. IMHO, in terms of making isk via any method, every other skill in the game is secondary to Tycoon and it's prerequisits. The more market order slots you can utilise via training up to Tycoon, the more profit you'll receive.

Inter-Regional Trading Basics : http://evemogul.info

Daily market tweets : https://twitter.com/EveMogul

Eve Trading Videos - Starring... me! : http://www.youtube.com/user/evemogul

Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#16 - 2013-09-18 04:29:59 UTC
Quit playing with meta 0
Paul Otichoda
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2013-09-18 07:24:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Otichoda
Logical Chaos wrote:


Again yor skills are probably not up to par compared to your competition. You do not have the trade skills trained that are required to cut your expenses by as much as possible. These are:

Accounting & Broker Relations. These skills reduce the transaction tax when selling an item as well as the broker fees. You should start working towards these skills if you want to be serious on the market.

That being said you need to do your own research on items: You are looking for items that are not worth too much individually but have a nice margin between buy & sell preferrably with not a lot of competition by others. These exist but are hard to find.


my skills are at trade 2 and contracting 1. so yeah.

Tuggboat wrote:
Quit playing with meta 0


why, you would think that there would be high demand for basic moduals
Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#18 - 2013-09-18 10:29:18 UTC
When placing buy orders for meta 0, make sure producers would want to sell to you.
Much of meta 0 has slim to 0 build margins (Thanks to minerals I mine are free people)

Meta 0 is also not very much used, apart from for modules which have a high requirement for T2 variant, or no meta 1-4 variant.

Get your Accounting and Broker relations up to at least 4. Margin trading is handy for placing your buy orders. The other relevant skills for station trading are the ones which increase the number of orders you can have.

Whenever I start a new char, I suffer from the "OMG Need moar orders" initially, and then as the ISK increases, I reduce the number I use, but, when starting out, you can never have enough orders going.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#19 - 2013-09-18 11:09:59 UTC
As someone that trades tech 2 ammunition in Dodixie a little, I must say it can be a wild wild ride.

I've bought large amounts of ammo at market lowpoints and tried to relist it later, only to see the market fall yet lower. Likewise other times I've sold at 20% higher than average, only to see the same ammunition trading at 45% above average hours later.

I keep doing it for some reason, but it's not where my ISK comes from.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Rhivre
TarNec
Invisible Exchequer
#20 - 2013-09-18 11:36:44 UTC
T2 ammo in dixie can indeed be a crazy ride :)

It depends on shipping in from Jita, and weekend producers coming off the long ammo-building cycles make the prices fall (and rise) very rapidly
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