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Balancing hi-sec piracy and making it more realistic.

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lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-09-17 07:04:19 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:


Ok, so you are telling me that we should be punished for our efforts to mitigate the unpleasant parts of our chosen profession.

Alrighty, then what are we going to do to the miners who go afk to mitigate how boring mining is? Wait, I know, we can blow them up!


Where did I say anything of the sort. All I said was that trying to claim those 'downsides' as consequences is a joke because of how it gets played. If you want to try and make an argument by misquoting and misrepresenting though, go right ahead, it simply makes you look afraid that someone might make it a little harder.

Ok, so the 'downsides' as consequences are a joke? Make and alt, or use your main, whatever, I don't care. Get him down to standard -10 permaflashyred, and do highsec ganks for a week. You can use whatever methods to get around penalties, use security tags to balance sec status etc. Get at least 5 kills a day (since it's so 'easy'), and make a net profit by the end of the week. All kills should be posted on a KB and API verified

Until you try the other shoe on, please do not make stupid assumptions. "Afraid" it may get harder? Maybe, just 'one more nerf'? Sure... Roll
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#62 - 2013-09-17 07:08:27 UTC
Quote:
Except MMOs need to be balanced and complaints about mechanics are beneficial to a large extent for developers to get feedback from.


It is balanced. You pretty much can't gank anyone who is actually at their computer. Most of the people the New Order kills are sitting along with their heads buried in the sand.

Quote:
Remember when I was challenged by some alliance twit to declare war on alliances if I didnt like their NBSI policy? Probably not. So I created Privateers. Within a few months there was mass raging and whining along the lines of "Please CCP we should be able to go to highsec whah whaaaa".


What? No, I don't. I do remember having to give you advice on how not to shield tank a Proteus. And I remember arguing with that you thought nullsec was broken because you couldn't dock up to buy ammo in someone else's sov.

But that's about it. Mostly, I remember you are a hopeless bad, try though I might to redeem you.

Quote:
In fact the majority of game changes imo have been made because alliances whined and whined and whined.


Which alliance whined for the barge buff? Or for the can flipping nerf? Or for safeties? Or for CONCORD reaction time reductions? Or for gate gun buffs? Or for "warp to zero"? Or for dec-dodging?

Or is there a coalition out there I hadn't heard of before called "Miners and Whiners"?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
lollerwaffle
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2013-09-17 07:13:04 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No there are gamers who choose a play style and then bleet and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult because its too easy for one style... That's YOU and THEM.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Your post could similarly be applied to PVE'ers, miners and other non-ganking types.

"There are miners who choose a mining play style and bleat and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult for them to mine AFK because it's too easy just to AFK mine all day. That's YOU and other miners."

"There are freighter pilots who choose to haul expensive stuff all day and bleat and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult for them to haul AFK because it's too easy just to AFK haul all day. That's ALL freighter pilots and YOU.

RollRollRoll

Hypocrite much?
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#64 - 2013-09-17 07:23:33 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
The only balance piracy requires at this point is a loud YARRRRRR! sound clip be played whenever an act of piracy is happening.

That, and add eye patches, hook hands, peglegs, and pirate hats...oooh! and shoulder parrots! add all that to the NEX!
Pirates! Yarrrr!

Shocked

YES

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2013-09-17 08:10:53 UTC
lollerwaffle wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No there are gamers who choose a play style and then bleet and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult because its too easy for one style... That's YOU and THEM.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Your post could similarly be applied to PVE'ers, miners and other non-ganking types.

"There are miners who choose a mining play style and bleat and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult for them to mine AFK because it's too easy just to AFK mine all day. That's YOU and other miners."

"There are freighter pilots who choose to haul expensive stuff all day and bleat and whine and moan whenever anyone wants to make it more difficult for them to haul AFK because it's too easy just to AFK haul all day. That's ALL freighter pilots and YOU.

RollRollRoll

Hypocrite much?

Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.


CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#66 - 2013-09-17 08:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Crimson Gauntlet
Quote:
Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.


First of all, everyone loves real industrialists, which miners are not. A real indy player is the guy selling me my gank ship, and selling the miner his replacement barge at the same time. The real indy players are pretty much the only people who can be said to "win" EVE Online. Those guys are awesome.

Also, that's not why we gank miners. And most of us really don't "hate" then either. We hate how they behave, we hate their whiny attitude, and we hate how they try to get CCP to just ban anything and everything that bugs them. Mostly because those are the words and actions of children, not of reasoning adults. But we don't hate them, we pity them.

We gank them because they might as well be bots. At least, might as well be for all we can tell in game. If you've ever actually seen me in game, I am both social and friendly to anyone in local. But I can warp into a belt, sit there for several minutes bumping into someone, asking him half a dozen times in local "hey, XYZ, are you there?". What am I supposed to do with such a person? Well, as a responsible player, I do what I can, I blow him up and I crack open his pod.

That action is allowed by the game, and if I choose to accept the penalties for doing so, what is the problem?

[Edit: Oh, and you might want to watch it with the acronyms. That treads territory close to being reportable, if someone chooses to do so. I do not, nor have I ever reported anyone, but I just wish to warn you.
Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Tara Read
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#67 - 2013-09-17 08:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tara Read
Maliandra wrote:
I'm one to smile when ganked - I think it makes hi-sec less boring knowing you can die at anytime - but the logic and balance is still not perfect and needs to be improved.

Hi-sec is illogical. You can pay off the police to commit crimes. The penalties for ganking are not severe enough (look at Niarji ffs). CONCORD ends up being more of an annoyance than a deterrent against criminal activity. With the ability to buy back sec status with ISK, this has really exasperated the issue further. I believe the following changes should be enacted to help create more balance:

1) Loss of sec status should be directly related to your current sec status and the sec status of the player being ganked.
2) Remove the ability to trade in pirate tags for sec status gain; or limit it to -2.0 instead of 0.
3) Negative sec status penalties should have their requirements cut in half (ex. effects of -4.0 happen at -2.0)

What does this result in?
a) Gankers must be more coordinated in hi-sec to be successful in the long run.
b) Gankers must pick and choose targets more wisely.
c) Gankers must head to low/null sec after causing a lot of havok in order to redeem themselves.
d) Players who have high security status (i.e. standing with CONCORD) are less likely to be ganked as CONCORD reacts more severely to action taken against them. Opposite can be said for those with negative sec status.

- Right now gankers will shoot down anything that is worth enough ISK to not be in inconvenience (inconvenience being having to reship and wait 5 mins). These changes make them think about what they are risking their sec status on.
- Right now gankers can use a tiny portion of their ganking earnings and buy tags whenever there sec status gets too low. These changes make them have to leave empire space eventually once they have committed to many criminal acts.
>> This makes a lot more sense.

This post does not touch on the faulty wardec system, however I'll leave that discussion for another time.


You really have no clue about Piracy do you? Do you think sec status is an issue when a juicy target presents itself? Look to the bold text I took the liberty of highlighting for you. Why don't YOU make the penalties severe? Why must you rely upon CONCORD or some other handicap instead of simply watching local, mash D scan and align out? Jesus Christ people avoiding being ganked isn't that hard.

It just requires you to actually play the F^%@ing game.
Crimson Gauntlet
Six Gun Sound
#68 - 2013-09-17 08:46:15 UTC
Quote:
It just requires you to actually play the F^%@ing game.


Judging from some of the responses in this thread, playing the game is too much to ask for. 

Number of times my posts have come in after the dev/mod locked the thread:  1
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-09-17 08:57:59 UTC
Maliandra wrote:
I'm one to smile when ganked - I think it makes hi-sec less boring knowing you can die at anytime - but the logic and balance is still not perfect and needs to be improved.

Hi-sec is illogical. You can pay off the police to commit crimes. The penalties for ganking are not severe enough (look at Niarji ffs). CONCORD ends up being more of an annoyance than a deterrent against criminal activity. With the ability to buy back sec status with ISK, this has really exasperated the issue further. I believe the following changes should be enacted to help create more balance:

1) Loss of sec status should be directly related to your current sec status and the sec status of the player being ganked.
2) Remove the ability to trade in pirate tags for sec status gain; or limit it to -2.0 instead of 0.
3) Negative sec status penalties should have their requirements cut in half (ex. effects of -4.0 happen at -2.0)

What does this result in?
a) Gankers must be more coordinated in hi-sec to be successful in the long run.
b) Gankers must pick and choose targets more wisely.
c) Gankers must head to low/null sec after causing a lot of havok in order to redeem themselves.
d) Players who have high security status (i.e. standing with CONCORD) are less likely to be ganked as CONCORD reacts more severely to action taken against them. Opposite can be said for those with negative sec status.

- Right now gankers will shoot down anything that is worth enough ISK to not be in inconvenience (inconvenience being having to reship and wait 5 mins). These changes make them think about what they are risking their sec status on.
- Right now gankers can use a tiny portion of their ganking earnings and buy tags whenever there sec status gets too low. These changes make them have to leave empire space eventually once they have committed to many criminal acts.
>> This makes a lot more sense.

This post does not touch on the faulty wardec system, however I'll leave that discussion for another time.


I like this idea & think CCP should implement it so I can see the rage on the forums when these changes manage to change exactly nothing.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2013-09-17 09:00:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Crimson Gauntlet wrote:
Quote:
Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.


First of all, everyone loves real industrialists, which miners are not. A real indy player is the guy selling me my gank ship, and selling the miner his replacement barge at the same time. The real indy players are pretty much the only people who can be said to "win" EVE Online. Those guys are awesome.

Also, that's not why we gank miners. And most of us really don't "hate" then either. We hate how they behave, we hate their whiny attitude, and we hate how they try to get CCP to just ban anything and everything that bugs them. Mostly because those are the words and actions of children, not of reasoning adults. But we don't hate them, we pity them.

We gank them because they might as well be bots. At least, might as well be for all we can tell in game. If you've ever actually seen me in game, I am both social and friendly to anyone in local. But I can warp into a belt, sit there for several minutes bumping into someone, asking him half a dozen times in local "hey, XYZ, are you there?". What am I supposed to do with such a person? Well, as a responsible player, I do what I can, I blow him up and I crack open his pod.

That action is allowed by the game, and if I choose to accept the penalties for doing so, what is the problem?

[Edit: Oh, and you might want to watch it with the acronyms. That treads territory close to being reportable, if someone chooses to do so. I do not, nor have I ever reported anyone, but I just wish to warn you.

What acronyms?

Oh, accidental, you have a dirty mind.

In Australia we have a certain group that likes to refer to themselves as Fully Awesome. They're usually not and usually made fun of with that term.

edit: How about Fully Awesome Players, hereafter referred to as FAP'rs?

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2013-09-17 09:06:43 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.




We dont hate industrialists, we hate people who do nothing to protect themselves and whine to get CCP to get rid of whatever is causing them setbacks.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-09-17 09:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.




We dont hate industrialists, we hate people who do nothing to protect themselves and whine to get CCP to get rid of whatever is causing them setbacks.

You mean like you guys when you whined about Privateers (nerfed)? Or when you whined about having to travel to null sec (bridges introduced), or when you whined about stuff getting blapped while you weren't online (reinforce introduced) or when you whined about not being able to jump clone quickly (jump clone timer skill introduced) ooooooor wow I could go on forever right?

You're whines have pretty much made this wow in space, had a goon the other day whining about jump clones still being too difficult, ...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-09-17 09:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.




We dont hate industrialists, we hate people who do nothing to protect themselves and whine to get CCP to get rid of whatever is causing them setbacks.

You mean like you guys when you whined about Privateers (nerfed)? Or when you whined about having to travel to null sec (bridges introduced), or when you whined about stuff getting blapped while you weren't online (reinforce introduced) or when you whined about not being able to jump clone quickly (jump clone timer skill introduced) ooooooor wow I could go on forever right?

You're whines have pretty much made this wow in space, had a goon the other day whining about jump clones still being too difficult, ...


Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-09-17 09:18:04 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:

Are you serious? Who do you think THEM was referring to, YOU (Fully Awesome Gamer's) and THEM miners, industrialists and everyone else you don't like because they don't play the game exactly how you want them to.




We dont hate industrialists, we hate people who do nothing to protect themselves and whine to get CCP to get rid of whatever is causing them setbacks.

You mean like you guys when you whined about Privateers (nerfed)? Or when you whined about having to travel to null sec (bridges introduced), or when you whined about stuff getting blapped while you weren't online (reinforce introduced) or when you whined about not being able to jump clone quickly (jump clone timer skill introduced) ooooooor wow I could go on forever right?

You're whines have pretty much made this wow in space, had a goon the other day whining about jump clones still being too difficult, ...


Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-09-17 09:19:29 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.


I'll take that as a no. Shame.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lady Areola Fappington
#76 - 2013-09-17 09:32:41 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.


I'll take that as a no. Shame.



Blurred line between fantasy and reality, Mallak. I expect there's some fear that, cause you're a grr goon, you might..I dunno, steal their puppy. Or poor beer down their shirt.

Hey, if I ever get around to planning my Auzzie vayvay, think we can meet up for a beer 'n such?

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2013-09-17 09:35:21 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.


I'll take that as a no. Shame.



Blurred line between fantasy and reality, Mallak. I expect there's some fear that, cause you're a grr goon, you might..I dunno, steal their puppy. Or poor beer down their shirt.

Hey, if I ever get around to planning my Auzzie vayvay, think we can meet up for a beer 'n such?


Sure, just send me a mail about it.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#78 - 2013-09-17 09:45:57 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.


I'll take that as a no. Shame.

No I'm definitely going.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-09-17 09:54:12 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the opinion of a J4G is obviously an alliance wide opinion.
On a side note are you going to EVE Down Under? I want to meet the person behind the butthurt.

Yeah Ill be going. Ill be cloaked in the carpark.


I'll take that as a no. Shame.

No I'm definitely going.


Awesome!

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#80 - 2013-09-17 10:00:01 UTC
You'll find that a lot of the Goons are actually fairly friendly people in real life. They leave the game at the table, so to speak. And I have yet to meet one (in fairness, only ever met 3 irl) that wasn't a reasonable, well spoken adult besides.

Disclaimer, I am not a goon, nor was I ever before. (in fact, if I were to dwell on history, we would be dire foes)

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.