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Vargur now or wait till expansion?
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#1 - 2013-09-16 07:01:56 UTC
Should I trade the Macherial now for a Vargur? Right now I'd only be about 70 DPS ahead on the Mach. After the upcoming balanced I'm positive the Vargur will be the better mission runner. Price speculation has already raised the price of the Vargur above the Mach.

Does anyone currently fly both and have an opinion? Thanks.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tychus Harkona
Lineark
#2 - 2013-09-16 10:07:26 UTC
I went from a 1250dps mach to a 1050 dps vargur and with salvaging my isk/hr has gone up quite a lot, posting from phone so can't check exact figures. I'd say go for it and get them marauder skills up! Also, salvage drones and 3 tractors work great.
Logical Chaos
Very Italian People
The Initiative.
#3 - 2013-09-16 10:08:18 UTC
If you do not salvage on a Noctis alt change to Vargur.

Salvaging&looting battleships only can net you crazy income in some missions.
Bobinu
Unsober
Last Picks
#4 - 2013-09-16 11:26:31 UTC
Id fly both if possible, see which one you enjoy the most, ISK per hour etc is not that important, as you will fly more missions if your enjoying your ship!

Fly both, see which you one you enjoy the most, and stick with it!!

I prefer the Vargur, the extra tank is nice, esp with bad internets!

I alternate between a multitude of ships, depending on the mission and what I am in the mood for.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#5 - 2013-09-16 12:28:59 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Should I trade the Macherial now for a Vargur? Right now I'd only be about 70 DPS ahead on the Mach. After the upcoming balanced I'm positive the Vargur will be the better mission runner. Price speculation has already raised the price of the Vargur above the Mach.

Does anyone currently fly both and have an opinion? Thanks.


The Mach (and it's little brother, the cynabal) are going to get a nerf soon and the price of the Varg is just gonna go up. Add that to the fact that Mach BPCs are getting farmed to death (thus the current low mach prices) and yea, get a varg lol.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2013-09-16 12:31:28 UTC
Well, part of the speculation is that the Machariel's going to get a nerf-bat to the kneecaps soon; as for the Vargur, last I heard it was going to lose its tanking bonus, but that was only at the halfway point of the winter-update Marauders threadnaught, so who knows at this point?

I'd say go for either of them if you've got ISK to burn, but don't put down half your gross value on getting either until we have a good idea of what's going to happen to them when winter comes.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#7 - 2013-09-16 14:49:33 UTC
Marc Callan wrote:
Well, part of the speculation is that the Machariel's going to get a nerf-bat to the kneecaps soon; as for the Vargur, last I heard it was going to lose its tanking bonus, but that was only at the halfway point of the winter-update Marauders threadnaught, so who knows at this point?

I'd say go for either of them if you've got ISK to burn, but don't put down half your gross value on getting either until we have a good idea of what's going to happen to them when winter comes.


the main draw of the mach, at least to me, is its speed and agility. Okay the rofflecopter dps is pretty important too, but without that speed/agility it couldn't apply all that deepz well.

the varg is very nice for sitting mostly still, and running a pithum booster and not needing to pay much attention. plus grabbing a bit of loot/salvage is kinda nice.

As for marauder price I have to wonder if it is correcting due to moongoo/mineral rebalances (and the announced rebalancing sped up the price adjustment), or if people really think they will be a whole bunch better after the changes and expect higher demand (in which case time to start making some marauders!)? I'd check up on the prices before thinking about buying one.

mach nerf? well I suppose I could see a falloff nerf, and an agility nerf. both which would hurt it, but I can still see it having use over the vargur for some cases. I don't see it getting a speed nerf, as with the battleship rebalancing a few other battleships got pretty good speed.

marauder rebalancing, well I don't see anything all that special coming for the vargur with the proposed changes. I can already run 5 damage mods and 3-4 tracking/range mods and complete missions. if anything the best part of bastion is the ewar invulnerability and well, that shouldn't be much of an issue anyways with the enemies the vargur is best against. Okay the ability to fit arty is useful for blitzing a few missions, but damn, 100% bonused arty, holy overkill batman! with top skills on a maelstrom 1 shot of faction ammo from a 1400 with damage mods and implants will have enough damage to damn near kill a npc frig twice.

the tank bonus loss on the varg would come with tech 2 resists and the bastion mod which would increase self reps by 100% honestly at that point you don't really even need the 100% tank bonus, especially when you trade your mobility for it.

oh and a mjd bonus, what a laugh (well for lv4s). maybe useful when you first warp into worlds collide, but other than that mostly useless on something like a marauder.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#8 - 2013-09-16 15:28:16 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
oh and a mjd bonus, what a laugh (well for lv4s). maybe useful when you first warp into worlds collide, but other than that mostly useless on something like a marauder.

I'm reserving judgement. It could potentially be useful for missions with distant gates, as with a little practice two jumps could get you there in a lot less time (with the proposed bonus) than slowboating. Also could get you started quicker in missions where the initial spawns are far off... you can immediately jump into the action.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#9 - 2013-09-16 17:26:00 UTC
stacked couple of vargurs and few others in case they are gonna be usable for more than vanilla missions if not il continue to do what i do now..keep em as dust collectors.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Baggo Hammers
#10 - 2013-09-16 18:02:31 UTC
If you fly a Mach you will be very disappointed with the Vargur in it's current state. I typically fly a Mach and bought a Vargur to try. I sold it the same day/

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
hmskrecik
TransMine Group
Gluten Free Cartel
#11 - 2013-09-16 18:19:06 UTC
Baggo Hammers wrote:
If you fly a Mach you will be very disappointed with the Vargur in it's current state. I typically fly a Mach and bought a Vargur to try. I sold it the same day/

Funny you say that because I too started with Mach, then tried Vargur and now it's Mach which is gathering dust. Okay, Mach pwns in damage department (in tank, to some degree, too) but Vargur is quite better suited for missions.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#12 - 2013-09-16 19:59:58 UTC
Since I'm a big fan of sentry drones I tend to sit there and blast from far away and pull in. The PYFA fit I have for the Vargur has almost exactly the same damage projection as the Mach Setup that I fly now. After the marauder buff it will be much better, and free up a mid slot on my tank.

My current mission boats are Tengu, RS, TFI, Mach. I want an Armageddon for Amarr space. I would definitely just trade the Mach for the Vargur. There's no sense in having 2 Angel killers. I think I'm going to give it a whirl. I'm definitely going to want one come expansion time anyway, and I can fly it.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#13 - 2013-09-18 19:28:01 UTC
It really worked out nice, tho it took a while to get used to it. The bounty ticks are smaller but overall the profit is nice once you learn how to salvage on the fly.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
SM60
Greg MonFuego Biotech LLC
#14 - 2013-09-22 08:32:11 UTC
Winter is coming.

Sorry had to say it.
That Seems Legit
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2013-09-23 03:27:34 UTC
I made that exact change a few months ago. Been loving the vargur ever since, actually ended up selling the mach I've had for over 2 years. I dont think the machariel is gonna get nerfed as bad as people think. It already got it with the tracking enhancer change. There are a lot of really good t1 battleships out there now, as well as improved navy counterparts stepping on the machs toes.

Damns - you're ugly - and that's a compliment from me. -Large Collidable Object Seeking donations for facial reconstructive surgery, every little bit helps!

Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#16 - 2013-09-23 04:26:24 UTC
If the nerfs are mostly to speed/agility (which is what the Mach needs nerfed) then it's not going to make much difference as while it's nice to have good speed in missions, it doesn't really affect mission completion times as much. Overall it depends, the Mach is better for blitzing through missions and killing everything, but if you're willing to cherry pick and salvage the Vargur is obviously better.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2013-09-23 18:06:03 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Since I'm a big fan of sentry drones I tend to sit there and blast from far away and pull in. The PYFA fit I have for the Vargur has almost exactly the same damage projection as the Mach Setup that I fly now. After the marauder buff it will be much better, and free up a mid slot on my tank.

My current mission boats are Tengu, RS, TFI, Mach. I want an Armageddon for Amarr space. I would definitely just trade the Mach for the Vargur. There's no sense in having 2 Angel killers. I think I'm going to give it a whirl. I'm definitely going to want one come expansion time anyway, and I can fly it.


One thing to keep in mind is that the proposed marauder changes include a lowering of drone bay/bandwidth...
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#18 - 2013-09-23 18:20:05 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Since I'm a big fan of sentry drones I tend to sit there and blast from far away and pull in. The PYFA fit I have for the Vargur has almost exactly the same damage projection as the Mach Setup that I fly now. After the marauder buff it will be much better, and free up a mid slot on my tank.

My current mission boats are Tengu, RS, TFI, Mach. I want an Armageddon for Amarr space. I would definitely just trade the Mach for the Vargur. There's no sense in having 2 Angel killers. I think I'm going to give it a whirl. I'm definitely going to want one come expansion time anyway, and I can fly it.


One thing to keep in mind is that the proposed marauder changes include a lowering of drone bay/bandwidth...


Yeah, wont matter much however. Right now I'm running 5 Warriors, hobgoblins, and salvagers. I'll have to lose the warrioirs.

With the insane tracking, I use them less than I did in the mach, which is almost never. I use em for spider drones and the 2 spies in WC. Other than that I have to make a mistake to even have a need for them.

It will be pretty amazing when it has 2 mid slots freed up after the expansion.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it