Intergalactic Summit

I must say, sort of an interesting turn for the conversation to take. I really didn't expect people to say that my goal of convincing the entire cluster that our system works better for everyone involved wasn't necessarily wrong, but that to preach it was tantamount to a hostile invasion. I have to say I disagree with that. Forcibly entering a place and changing the status quo is not the same as convincing them of their error.

In response to Irixus's question, why don't more people want to be part of the system? It's because of what they have been taught. What they have been taught is that no matter how locked into the cycle of debt and wages they have become, no matter what squalor they live in, no matter how much is repossessed by their banks and no matter how long they are imprisoned by their governments, it doesn't matter. They are free, can go anywhere they want, and do anything they want. Our system is slavery, therefore it is bad.

Imagine if I'd entered your empire, though, and told your lower classes that the Amarr have a new program. If you enter it, you will be consistently employed for the rest of your life, but you will have to work hard. You will always be fed, sheltered, and clothed. You and your family will be educated and, if you show any aptitude, we have every reason to invest in your development; you won't be leaving. Essentially, you will have a job for life. In return, you will not be able to vote. You will not be able to travel unless it becomes part of your job. You will need to be prepared to do any job we need you to do, though we will train you for it.

Do you think I would have any takers? Think any of your window-washers, fast-food workers, and garbage collectors would take a job knowing that all of their expenses and education would be covered? In exchange for their vote that they feel doesn't matter anyway? In exchange for vacations they can never afford to take to places they will never go?

I think I would. I'd be willing to say thousands. Millions. Billions.

But you call it slavery and tell them that it is infinitely worse than anything they could possibly imagine. That they should prefer death to it.

Are they really better off with you? Is it really worth it? They know that their politicians don't listen to them. Their politicians can't and won't guarantee them jobs. Can't tell them they will all receive an education. Can't tell them that they will handle the myriad other worries they have to handle outside of getting their job done. Can't tell them that they will grow up in a society where their children will all develop useful trades and lead productive lives.

I can tell them that.

That is to say nothing about advancement. Slaves aren't always out in a field scything wheat like you all imagine. Those who show loyalty and promise are advanced. They live in better places, have more freedom and responsibility. There are Amarr commoners who would kill and maim to be slaves in the House of Baracca, considering their prestige and work. It isn't a static position for anyone but those who refuse to learn and work. If we converted them peaceably, they all would want to advance. To do good work and be recognized. Most would eventually become Amarr, educated and clean, and would be able to preach the Word for themselves to others. To say, "I was you, and I am better now because those things that cluttered my life and clouded my vision were taken and instead I learned the value and consistency of labor.

They would leave behind squalor. Slums and ghettos where they can't even afford the rent, malnutrition for themselves and their families. Their children growing up in gangs and dying in the streets.

It's a very dirty word elsewhere, slavery, but I did not grow up in that sort of society. We see security. I serve those above me and do their will just as any slave does. I don't have any more say politically to the Empress than they do. I've never despaired of that. I've seen what that choice has cost everyone else. I've grown up knowing what I was going to do with my life and I've been trained my whole life to do it. I didn't have student loans I couldn't repay or out-of-control living costs.

I grew up happy and live every day excited about the good work I do.

Is it really the same as invading your systems that I tell people about it? Tell them that it could happen to them, their children, or their children's children? That I think my system is better and want to give them a chance to join it?

I think I could do it. I think I could pave a road to salvation for millions. They would pave an even broader road. Soon, everyone would live in the glory of God and see his eternal wisdom. He knows better than us, and he gave us the way. Told us what was important. Security, unity, to take care of one's family, to work hard and know the value of it.

You may vehemently disagree with me, but you cannot stop the message from getting out. People will see that their lives in other empires are not better than our slaves, in fact their lives are often worse. Invading the other empires is unnecessary. All we have to do is get the Word out.

I don't think you can stop me if you try. Even those you free, their descendants will convert. Slaves are already trickling back, asking for amnesty. They are granted it. They never asked to be freed into a life where nine in ten will suffer in misery and then be called worthless and blamed for it by their cultural betters.

At the very least, you can't say any slave has no value. In fact, we know what it is and who is responsible if they do not.

No Mr. Liberta. It is a matter of choice in its purest form, the Amarr "offer" a choice, and its up to the individual to ponder his options , weight his views and concepts against the pros and cons of the "offer" , in the end , even if the choice surpasses the individual level, you can always turn you back to the said offer, or fight against it if you must.

Thats what most other people fail to see, in a so.called free and modern society the majority of the population are subtly indoctrinated into believing that "the others" ideals are better then the ones of the other faction, thus creating the "I am right, you are wrong " way of thinking.

You are born free, in a way, and like the good Father stated, you go trough school and you "choose" wich path you will walk in life, that said , you wish to become a miner, or a successfull Prospector working for himself, for example, in most cases you are blinded by your desires , the desire to succeed, the desire to be wealthy and acknowleged by a fraction of your society as a person of importance, you are blinded to the fact that you will be almost always dependent on how much funds you have for starters, or the connections you make along the way.

You fail to see that in all these so.called choices, even if you do succeed upto a certain degree you will still be acknowleged by precisely a fraction of the sum of your people, a tiny little speck in the galaxy , therefore remaining completely irrelevant, but, as long as apearences are maintained you remain content, and as long as you can fullfill your wishes up to a certain extent you will still think that the system is right, because it gave you choices that more or less by pure chance worked out, even if most people are still obliviious to this.

Now back to the Amarr, the matter of choice is not of so much importance as the matter of slavery, or indured labour, i wouldn't choose it personally, lets say i am too much Caldari to accept such a thing, but in their view, the holders that trully educate and care for their slaves do proporcionate them with a life that most Gallente, Caldari or Minmatar can't even dream of.. in fact, a huge percentage of our people's do live in conditions well bellow those , or worst, of that than an Amarrian slave lives.

Unfortunately the concept of Freedom of Choice, is a well ingrained one in our societies, in order to be free you must understand first that we are not free, even us Capsuleers , the second step is to understand that sucess comes at the cost of limiting our own freedom in one way or another, and in our specific case, we might even have to kill others to achieve that goal we set up .

In that no Matari, no Caldari and certainly no Gallente is above the Amarr.

The matter of the case is, as much as it distastes you to admit it, the Amarr are the most forthcoming in their " proposals" and tries, the rest is redtape, publicity stunts and a whole lot of misguided faith.

It seems rather odd to me that someone claiming to have been among the ranks of Speakers of Truth and the Apostles would not have had enough professionalism imparted unto them from these positions so as to have picked a less corny and stereotyped display name than "Slaver Filth".

It'd be like someone in Electus Matari using the display name "Rockthrowing Heathen Tribal". Or an FDU pilot going by "Hedonistic Freedom Harlot".

Oh Miss Lagann fear not, this " Filth " ( actually the name is usefull for something after all ) , is just one of those holders that seems to be content barking from far far away in his safe safe home somewhere near the Throne Worlds systems...

Your doubts have little value because clearly you Can't Understand Normal Thinking, these matters of faith are above your station. Continue to stumble about in the darkness of your doubt.

"The word of the Lord is pure,
It is a shield for the faithful,

Brought unto men by the Angels,
As a guiding light in the darkness "
- The Scriptures, Prophet Anoyia 8:15

For once, Cpt. Ixiris, I agree wholeheartedly with you!

Ok, guys, this was amusing, but the joke is getting old.

Do you think it very likely that an actual faithful True Amarrian would call themselves "Slaver Filth"? Yea, me neither.

Don't feed the troll. Even if it seems he is our troll.

Else

You attempt to sound so learned with your link and everything, however you are too ignorant to know the difference between the Imperial seal of Amarr and the seal of True Amarr. Here is a picture since you could not understand the difference from the description, you Matari always miss the truth and then spout off in an idiotic childish rant that proves conclusively your inferiority. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/True_Amarr

Father Constatin, bare in mind that the situation you are describing is a voluntary transfer. I would have to agree that if anyone went to the most downtrodden and impoverished folk in the cluster and made your offer the poor would take it. As someone who has seen refugees make futile attempts to grab onto the wings of aircraft in an attempt to escape their suffering I can safely say people will be willing to risk anything if it meant salvation, be it worldly or spiritually.

The problem here is that the Amarr didn't give people a choice, they forced it upon them. "Come with us or die" was the offer on the table. When the Gallente first met face to face with the Caldari we did so with an extended hand. When the Amarr first met face to face with he Minmatar your hands were on whips and guns.

Father Constantin, you are trying to spread your faith the way that your people should have done so in the first place. With an open understanding of all cultures and bringing to them your scriptures instead of slave collars. The problem with the Empire is that your ancestors did not take this approach. Instead of sending missionaries first, your Empire sent crusaders. While Empress Jamyl and balanced, open minded thinkers such as yourself are a sign that the Empire is starting to move away from this ideology, there are still a great many people running your government that think that the rest of the cluster should be enslaved, and that they should get on that job ASAP.

Not even close, Baldy.