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Bumping freighters and criminal flags

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Sipphakta en Gravonere
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#161 - 2013-09-16 14:10:31 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:

And if your frigate flies with afterburner into a titan, it shouldent go splat ?, of two less brilliant things, wich is less brilliant ? ;P


If only our ships in space had some kind of shield...
Giuseppe R Raimondo
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2013-09-16 14:17:15 UTC
Fast and simpel solution is not making the mass of a frigate or destroyer be able to move the mass of a capital. Now that i think about it there should be a service at station to clean wrecks of the hull of your ship
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#163 - 2013-09-16 14:20:01 UTC
Fey Ivory wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So if I throw a small rock at a stationary rock three times bigger in space the big rock is not going to move?


And if your frigate flies with afterburner into a titan, it shouldent go splat ?, of two less brilliant things, wich is less brilliant ? ;P

Ships, unlike rocks, have shields specifically designed to keep ships from actually colliding and taking damage. Now a case could be made for making the consequences to the frigate more severe, like being rebounded quite some distance further away than they currently are... but that really doesn't solve the non-issue being discussed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#164 - 2013-09-16 14:24:49 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Maliandra wrote:
I've read some threads about this and am yet to see a response to this question: How is it logical that using a warp disruptor raises a criminal flag but preventing someone from warping by bumping into their ship endlessly does not?

I understand bumping is not in itself an exploit, and it would be tough to place flags as how does one determine when it is appropriate to do so?

None the less this issue needs to be looked at. I don't fly freighters or do much that requires such transportation so I don't think I'm (too) biased when it comes to this. Can't ignore the faulty logic.
RRing criminals flags you. Why? You are helping criminals. So... what's the bumper doing?

CCP should sit down and come up with a solution. There should be something "between" a yellow and orange flag for this and they need to find an effective way for it to exist within the game.


This raises a really good question; "How many Calories are in human tears, and will that make me fatter than dipping my Oreo's in skim milk"?


+1

I use this stuff called "Tears-be-gone". it looks like a Rapier with sensor boosters and faction webs and it not only allows me to move a freighter across high sec with lightening speed, it makes it impossible for anyone to bump me in the very few seconds the freighter is visible to them before it warps.

who ever thought that expending 1 brain cell worth or effort would actually work in a video game?
Alavaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#165 - 2013-09-16 14:25:24 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
So don't follow them from system to system.

Or don't follow them to another belt... or even 10 km on the same grid... all's relative. Blink

...but the definition of "bumping as a form of harassment" wasn't really the subject here to begin with.

Hey, overly expansive and encouraging of "clarifications"

Go find that one GM and ask him for some help

Loyalty is a virtue, participation brings reward.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#166 - 2013-09-16 14:31:23 UTC
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:
Fey Ivory wrote:

And if your frigate flies with afterburner into a titan, it shouldent go splat ?, of two less brilliant things, wich is less brilliant ? ;P


If only our ships in space had some kind of shield...


A frigate mitigates most of its damage taken by its speed, in this case its used to ram a object, several times its own mass, not to mention if that object were heading for you, and yes you have shields ;P
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#167 - 2013-09-16 14:37:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Alavaria wrote:
Go find that one GM and ask him for some help

Why should I? I have no issue with gankers... never had. Blink

...I just don't like bullies. vOv

On shields: I doubt that shields would be of much use against the force of one ship colliding with another one... they are there to absorb certain forms of energy... the kinetic force a small, fast ship would have to withstand when colliding with a much larger vessel would melt it's shield in milliseconds. On the other hand... a frigate ramming a dreadnought wouldn't do much more harm then a missile would to said frigate.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Alavaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#168 - 2013-09-16 14:40:12 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Alavaria wrote:
Go find that one GM and ask him for some help

Why should I? I have no issue with gankers... never had. Blink

...I just don't like bullies. vOv

So.. gankers and bumpers then.

Go on, I'll be waiting.

Loyalty is a virtue, participation brings reward.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#169 - 2013-09-16 14:43:32 UTC
Alavaria wrote:
Go on, I'll be waiting.

You do that. Smile

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#170 - 2013-09-16 14:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Shalua Rui wrote:
Alavaria wrote:
Go find that one GM and ask him for some help

Why should I? I have no issue with gankers... never had. Blink

...I just don't like bullies. vOv

On shields: I doubt that shields would be of much use against the force of one ship colliding with another one... they are there to absorb certain forms of energy... the kinetic force a small, fast ship would have to withstand when colliding with a much larger vessel would melt it's shield in milliseconds. On the other hand... a frigate ramming a dreadnought wouldn't do much more harm then a missile would to said frigate.

I'm just saying since the game engine isn't really set up to handle collisions in a more sophisticated manner the accepted lore is that your shields protect you from collisions by rebounding you away, fitting nicely with the often abused term "deflector shield".

CCP is only willing to use a certain amount of processor power dealing with the collisions that happen all the time in EVE, so until things get rewritten to allow the GPU to shoulder that load via Tessellation things aren't likely to change much in the short term.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#171 - 2013-09-16 14:58:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP is only willing to use a certain amount of processor power dealing with the collisions that happen all the time in EVE, so until things get rewritten to allow the GPU to shoulder that load via Tessellation things aren't likely to change much in the short term.

It's not going to change then either. You can't trust the client, so the GPU would only handle the graphical effect — not the actual collision simulation. To make any use of those kinds of computations, the GPU would have to be server-side, and I somehow doubt that they'll rewrite the server code and refit the cluster with piles of GPUs just to deal with something as irrelevant as collisions.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#172 - 2013-09-16 15:03:20 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
CCP is only willing to use a certain amount of processor power dealing with the collisions that happen all the time in EVE, so until things get rewritten to allow the GPU to shoulder that load via Tessellation things aren't likely to change much in the short term.

Meh... true... but, CPU space becomes cheaper and cheaper, and so do GPU's in notebooks and PCs. ...I guess it's more an issue of priority and manpower, then anything else... with CCP thinning their resources over multiple games like that. The tassilation/texture mapping presentation on this years fanfest was pretty impressive.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#173 - 2013-09-16 15:04:35 UTC
Amhra Rho wrote:
CCP is, at least, consistent about this, in that their explanation about what provokes a criminal flag is the use of a module. Of course, that wouldn't be the case with bumping - no modules are involved.


WMD + Armor plate.

Next lady for a shave....

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#174 - 2013-09-16 15:10:27 UTC
Sakaron Hefdover wrote:
Jita 4-4 will no longer be a market if you added consequences on bumping
ShockedLol
Oh, the Concordokken carnage, should bumping raise GCC flags! Such hilarity at trade-hub undocks! Wreacks as far as the eye can see, Concord so thick on the scene that you could walk from hull-to-hull, even Concord Concordokkening itself due to the density of the response!

Please, CCP, do this! Even for just one day...! Cool
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#175 - 2013-09-16 15:13:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Maliandra wrote:
I've read some threads about this and am yet to see a response to this question: How is it logical that using a warp disruptor raises a criminal flag but preventing someone from warping by bumping into their ship endlessly does not?

I understand bumping is not in itself an exploit, and it would be tough to place flags as how does one determine when it is appropriate to do so?

None the less this issue needs to be looked at. I don't fly freighters or do much that requires such transportation so I don't think I'm (too) biased when it comes to this. Can't ignore the faulty logic.
RRing criminals flags you. Why? You are helping criminals. So... what's the bumper doing?

CCP should sit down and come up with a solution. There should be something "between" a yellow and orange flag for this and they need to find an effective way for it to exist within the game.


No.

If bumping were any form of attack, then I would sit on the undock in Jita and get people blown up endlessly. The reason is not in any way shape or form an act that flags you is because it can, and much of the time is done accidentally. Make it a hostile act and you've opened up a can of worms you really don't want the smart, mean people in this game to have access to.

Just have someone double-web your ship to cut your time to warp. It's beyond easy.

Its very easy for the server to tell the difference between deliberate bumping and accidental bumping.

Deliberate -

Ship is moving at great speed.
Ship is repeatedly colliding with the bumped ship while moving at great speed in a forward direction.
Ship is moving away at high speed to get range for next bump.
Ship is using MWD.

vs

Undocking

Ship is moving at slow speed
Ship is bumping another ship at slow speed while moving up down, sideways.
Ship is not moving away at high speed to get range for next bump.
Ship is not using MWD.

Simple.
Everything is simple to someone who does not understand how things work, and does not have to *do* the work.

Hush, and let the grownups talk.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#176 - 2013-09-16 15:14:05 UTC
Thread:

OP: "HOW TO SHOT WEB?!?!?"

ZIONA: "SOK I WILL CODE WEBSHOOTING CODES FOR UUUU" *if.player1=meanie then.ruleschange1 ruleschange1=evehowIwantit

EVERYONE ELSE: Actually, you are wrong. *inserts proof*

ZIONA: I AM ALWAYS RIGHT FORUMS REVOLVE AROUND ME LISTEN TO MEEEEEE I KNOW HOW TO SHOT WEB NO REALLY...oh by the way freighters should be totally safe in hi-sec because :time investment:

EVE: *facepalm

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#177 - 2013-09-16 15:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Funny how people connect tesselation to collision detection..

One is adding virtual triangles that don't exist on the models,
the other handles mathematical spheres/boxes which don't have much resemblences of the actual model.

And if CCP had been smarter about it, they would have used OpenGL and we would have gotten tesselation years ago.

Anyhow, there is no connection whatsoever.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#178 - 2013-09-16 15:29:20 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Thread:

OP: "HOW TO SHOT WEB?!?!?"

ZIONA: "SOK I WILL CODE WEBSHOOTING CODES FOR UUUU" *if.player1=meanie then.ruleschange1 ruleschange1=evehowIwantit

EVERYONE ELSE: Actually, you are wrong. *inserts proof*

ZIONA: I AM ALWAYS RIGHT FORUMS REVOLVE AROUND ME LISTEN TO MEEEEEE I KNOW HOW TO SHOT WEB NO REALLY...oh by the way freighters should be totally safe in hi-sec because :time investment:

EVE: *facepalm
\

You owe me a keyboard because mine is now soiled with coffee. I will accept 3 plex in lieu of keyboard.
Baron' Soontir Fel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#179 - 2013-09-16 15:32:00 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:

CCP's policy for a long time now has been that you can not repeatedly bump a freighter to stop it from warping if you're not ganking it. If someone does this then file a GM ticket. Otherwise it's game mechanics working as intended.

If you're referring to other cases of bumping then it comes under the Harassment policy where you should first attempt to move systems and if the person follows you then you can report them.


Is there a post somewhere that says this?

I had a Typhoon bump my empty Orca for 1/2 an hour and I couldn't do anything about it. Couldn't do anything.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#180 - 2013-09-16 15:33:15 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
Thread:

OP: "HOW TO SHOT WEB?!?!?"

ZIONA: "SOK I WILL CODE WEBSHOOTING CODES FOR UUUU" *if.player1=meanie then.ruleschange1 ruleschange1=evehowIwantit

EVERYONE ELSE: Actually, you are wrong. *inserts proof*

ZIONA: I AM ALWAYS RIGHT FORUMS REVOLVE AROUND ME LISTEN TO MEEEEEE I KNOW HOW TO SHOT WEB NO REALLY...oh by the way freighters should be totally safe in hi-sec because :time investment:

EVE: *facepalm


pretty much

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal