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Bumping freighters and criminal flags

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2013-09-15 20:36:57 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Were I do agree though: That minority of "impotent flailers" will not change the game...

...but the demands of a changing industry might.

The good news is that EVE never catered to that part of the industry to begin with, and didn't need to chase to get on the whole “difficult game” bandwagon — it was already sitting way up front.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#122 - 2013-09-15 20:42:27 UTC
I don't know. PVP maybe the end goal, but what most of people do in EVE most of the time is not PVP except those who buy plex to fund their PVP addictions.

So much so that people who are saving money up for PVP don't actually PVP because they keep saving more money doing non-PVP activities.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2013-09-15 20:52:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Caviar Liberta
Amhra Rho wrote:
CCP is, at least, consistent about this, in that their explanation about what provokes a criminal flag is the use of a module. Of course, that wouldn't be the case with bumping - no modules are involved.


If bumping caused a criminal flag then a lot of npc hilarity would happen at most high sec gates. I've had npc bump into me. I've seen npc bump into each other.

Faction NPC bumps into a player at a gate and concord swoops in for the kill and then Faction NPC engages the Concord ship and the whole thing spirals out of control.
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#124 - 2013-09-15 21:00:35 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The good news is that EVE never catered to that part of the industry to begin with, and didn't need to chase to get on the whole “difficult game” bandwagon — it was already sitting way up front.

...as it was never thinkable that WoW will go f2p one day. Things change.

@ Tardbar: That's why low hanging fruit "PvP" with maximised risk/reward is so fervently defended by the players. Blink

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#125 - 2013-09-15 21:41:39 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Tippia wrote:
The good news is that EVE never catered to that part of the industry to begin with, and didn't need to chase to get on the whole “difficult game” bandwagon — it was already sitting way up front.

...as it was never thinkable that WoW will go f2p one day. Things change.

@ Tardbar: That's why low hanging fruit "PvP" with maximised risk/reward is so fervently defended by the players. Blink


WoW might end up going F2P for the same reason EVE might fail. That being, listening to the whiners to the point where you have stopped making your game the very thing that attracted people to it in the first place.

I'd think that the screaming deaths of the last few MMOs to pursue the flash in the pan themepark players would be evidence enough to show that portion of the industry is not worth it. Not worth it for ArenaNet, not for Bioware, not for Mythic, and the list continues.

That kind of casual bullshit has worked only for one company. Blizzard. And we should all face the truth at this point. After close to a decade, Blizzard just got lucky, right place at the right time. Companies that keep thinking "Why not Zoidberg?" get buried.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2013-09-16 02:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Renault T'Bonin wrote:

That's fine by me. I don't relish tears from griefing people.

I do admit to enjoying tears shed by the willfully ignorant. Freighter ganking is completely appropriate in this game because there are ways of avoiding it.


I've never gotten why victims will so willfully fuel the tear machine with whinging and crying after a gank.

I've been gotten on my industrial alt a few times. Rather than sending pages full of "OMG U SUX GO DIAF", I just say "Hey, good gank, caught me napping. Next time you won't be so lucky!"


Some people just invest entirely too much emotional clutter into a video game.

If you had worked for months to get a top of the line capital ship to fly, even if you could afford to lose it, and then it was killed by a group of newb alts in newb 2 million isk dessies with newb t1 weapons in under 30 seconds you would probably wonder why you were even playing the game too.

I'm not anti-suiciding, I suicided a random in Jita the other day, pod included. I'm anti-imbalance. I used a battleship, it has a loss value that is somewhat painful.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#127 - 2013-09-16 02:48:07 UTC
Thread delivers.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#128 - 2013-09-16 04:12:45 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Hm... ok, it seams I stand corrected then... on the other hand, given CCP's recents changes in management...

...let's just say, I get a different message. Blink Times are a changing, that's especially true for game companies... just don't be too suprised if "your" way of playing the game is suddenly deemed undesirable one day.



CCP Solomon wrote:
The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (in fact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP).


So basically, you're wrong about pretty much everything. That's actually pretty impressive.

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Angeal MacNova
Holefood Inc.
Warriors of the Blood God
#129 - 2013-09-16 04:31:38 UTC
You can't allow bumping to flag people. It would be abused way too much.

The "solution" (if it's even a problem) would be to script it so ships that initiate warp can't be bumped. However, miners would constantly activate and deactivate to prevent bumping while mining. The solution to that would be to change so that high slot modules stop upon initiation of warp rather than upon warping. This also goes for any other high slot module that would shut off up warping.

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/goodnight-sweet-prince/

http://www.projectvaulderie.com/the-untold-story/

CCP's true, butthurt, colors.

Because those who can't do themselves keep others from doing too.
PopplerRo
#130 - 2013-09-16 04:31:49 UTC
Sounds like the equivalent of trying to prevent someone from moving by breaking their legs or just standing in their way, sure while one is illegal the other is not illegal just frowned upon
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#131 - 2013-09-16 05:10:36 UTC
Galen Darksmith wrote:
So basically, you're wrong about pretty much everything. That's actually pretty impressive.

I know, right!? RollBlink

Seriously though... throwing around random quotes as a way to give yourself a sense of security, and to be "right" of course, is... adorable... but doesn't nullify the possibility that CCP might change the whole bumping mechanics on a whim, if they should deem it necessary...

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#132 - 2013-09-16 06:11:39 UTC
Shalua Rui wrote:
Galen Darksmith wrote:
So basically, you're wrong about pretty much everything. That's actually pretty impressive.

I know, right!? RollBlink

Seriously though... throwing around random quotes as a way to give yourself a sense of security, and to be "right" of course, is... adorable... but doesn't nullify the possibility that CCP might change the whole bumping mechanics on a whim, if they should deem it necessary...


Of course it doesn't nullify the possibility, very few events (Iceland sinking into the ocean and becoming a second Atlantis, EMP pulse from covert Icelandic nuclear test wipes the servers, bog standard end-of-the-world scenarios) would actually fully nullify it. However, given the quote, it's pretty obvious that CCP views EVE as a place where interactions are not always consensual. In this light, there is very little reason to change bumping mechanics to please a small minority of players (transport pilots too stupid to take precautions).

"EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for." -CCP Wrangler
Alavaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2013-09-16 06:19:35 UTC
Maybe the entire premise of eve onine player generated content is wrong

Loyalty is a virtue, participation brings reward.
Diablo Ex
Nocturne Holdings
#134 - 2013-09-16 07:08:57 UTC
The simple solution would be that once a warp drive is activated and begins spooling up the ship is surrounded by a warp bubble and no longer a "collidable" object. The physics of the game has ships in warp passing through planets, stations, asteroids, all kinds of stuff because while in Warp you are not "physically" in the universe. At that point the only way to prevent the ship from warping away is to use a warp disruptor. If the ship doesn't have it's warp drive active then it can interact with the objects around it and be bumped.

Diablo Ex Machina - "I'm not here to fix your problem"
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#135 - 2013-09-16 08:01:45 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Um, ships are moving at maximum speed when they undock.


Faster than in a lot of cases.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#136 - 2013-09-16 08:13:23 UTC
Diablo Ex wrote:
The simple solution would be that once a warp drive is activated and begins spooling up the ship is surrounded by a warp bubble and no longer a "collidable" object. The physics of the game has ships in warp passing through planets, stations, asteroids, all kinds of stuff because while in Warp you are not "physically" in the universe. At that point the only way to prevent the ship from warping away is to use a warp disruptor. If the ship doesn't have it's warp drive active then it can interact with the objects around it and be bumped.


You just killed bumping as a thing to fix something that isnt broken.
Pippgirl
Samvirkelaget
#137 - 2013-09-16 08:24:02 UTC
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but:

wouldn't it be more realistic if it was harder to bump a ship with more mass than the one you are flying? So for example if ship a) with a mass of 10kk kg woulb be able to bump a ship with 5kk kg, but not a ship with 20kk kg?
Seems logical that a bumping frigate would just be crushed against the hull of a freighter, and therefore be the one that is bumped if it tries.

culo duro
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2013-09-16 08:51:07 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:

top of the line capital ship to fly


Infinity Ziona wrote:

killed by a group of newb alts in newb 2 million isk dessies with newb t1 weapons in under 30 seconds


I think something was misunderstood here.

I've starting blogging http://www.epvpc.blogspot.com 
Klandi
Consortium of stella Technologies
#139 - 2013-09-16 09:09:25 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


You just killed bumping as a thing to fix something that isnt broken.


Baltec - the adage "if it ain't broke then don't fix it" is what you are applying to this situation, then I have to say, that thinking is flawed. A design or concept when created is not perfect - never has been. Change of time, uses and people require modification of everything so the adage should be "If it don't change, don't fix it" and you apply that, will find that everything must evolve as everything changes.

Applying that concept to this game - everything will change because it can - and you know it can. There is no law to say it can't and as CCP has given the players a voice and an input into game evolution, then we say it will be changed and they will bow to player pressure - or not, as it is their decision at the end of the day.

This thread is about that singular concept and addressing the perceived "lifelike" physics of mass in space, based on several limitations. It needs to change because it is not "lifelike" enough.

Endof

I am aware of my own ignorance and have checked my emotional quotient - thanks for asking
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
#140 - 2013-09-16 10:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Shalua Rui
Klandi wrote:
This thread is about that singular concept and addressing the perceived "lifelike" physics of mass in space, based on several limitations. It needs to change because it is not "lifelike" enough.

Exactly... my favorite example for "emergent gameplay that was not intended" will always be jet can mining... CCP didn't intend for the mechanic to be used in that way, but they did not object, no, actually they where impressed with how crafty their players are... after the first shock, that was. Blink Then they changed mining ships and made it obsolete... things change, sometimes sooner, sometimes later.

"ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)