Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I've read some threads about this and am yet to see a response to this question: How is it logical that using a warp disruptor raises a criminal flag but preventing someone from warping by bumping into their ship endlessly does not?

I understand bumping is not in itself an exploit, and it would be tough to place flags as how does one determine when it is appropriate to do so?

None the less this issue needs to be looked at. I don't fly freighters or do much that requires such transportation so I don't think I'm (too) biased when it comes to this. Can't ignore the faulty logic.
RRing criminals flags you. Why? You are helping criminals. So... what's the bumper doing?

CCP should sit down and come up with a solution. There should be something "between" a yellow and orange flag for this and they need to find an effective way for it to exist within the game.

CCP is, at least, consistent about this, in that their explanation about what provokes a criminal flag is the use of a module. Of course, that wouldn't be the case with bumping - no modules are involved.

What exactly is supposed to be "between a yellow and orange flag"? Is that where I can only sort of shoot someone?

Plus, as you went over yourself there isn't a terribly clear way to tell when someone is bumping you maliciously and when there's just a queue to get into Jita.

CCP's policy for a long time now has been that you can not repeatedly bump a freighter to stop it from warping if you're not ganking it. If someone does this then file a GM ticket. Otherwise it's game mechanics working as intended.

If you're referring to other cases of bumping then it comes under the Harassment policy where you should first attempt to move systems and if the person follows you then you can report them.

I do wish they'd add criminal flags for repeated bumping.

That way I could repeatedly bump a freighter into a friend's ship until the freighter flags. No need for these messy ten-man ganks.

Prop mod?

SCNR

Its very easy for the server to tell the difference between deliberate bumping and accidental bumping.

Deliberate -

Ship is moving at great speed.
Ship is repeatedly colliding with the bumped ship while moving at great speed in a forward direction.
Ship is moving away at high speed to get range for next bump.
Ship is using MWD.

vs

Undocking

Ship is moving at slow speed
Ship is bumping another ship at slow speed while moving up down, sideways.
Ship is not moving away at high speed to get range for next bump.
Ship is not using MWD.

Simple.

I agree that it should be possible to code a proper "bumper detection method" if the devs want that ... but checking for the usuage of a MWD is not a good idea as anyone could legally activate that mod on undock.

Great idea! Making EVE even less harsh as it is.

Lets say two soccer balls are rolling down the street, and hit each other head on. Absent any other information, can you determine which one hit the other?

That's how the server sees you, as a bunch of different sized balls bouncing around a grid. If you can derive "intent to bump" out of just that, more power to you.

Don't forget, a computer cannot judge intent. Anything you get to protect yourself, I get to use too. Lets say CCP makes "Faster moving ship=bumper". Well, I'll just take a speedy interceptor, park it at a dead stop in front of your barge/freighter/orca, and wait for CONCORD to do the killing work for me, when you trigger the bumping flag.


CCP has an excellent system in place, that protects both sides. Bumpers can bump, till it's shown they are going out of their way to target one person. To invoke that rule, the bumpee has to make an effort to escape being bumped (the current definition we use for escape is "Move far enough away that the bumpers must use locator agents to find you."

i think it would be easy.
if a prop mod is ON, and you are set to green. you pass or have no effect and you bounce off.
If a prop mod is ON and you are set to yellow/red you get a suspect flag for causing a ship to go out of alignment if it was in warp spool up.
If a prop mod is ON, you are set to yellow/red, have a suspect flag active due to bumping a ship out of alignment during a warp spool up, and the ship you bumped gets attacked, you get a criminal flag.

Ships now gain a stackable buff that is transferred to other ships that has a 60 second cooldown. If a ship bumps into the ship with the buff, the ship doing the bumping will receive a 60 second bump timer that refreshes for each bump. Once a certain limit is reached, that ship will have no further bump effect on other ships for the duration of the buff. Once the limit has been reached, the buff no longer refreshes. The duration of the lock out can be reduced by green, yellow or red status.

Buff on the main target only increases by 1 stack each time it is it knocked out of alignment. Bumps that push the ship towards alignment do not increase the stack.

If a prop mod is OFF, and you are set to green, lock out will be 60 seconds.
If a prop mod is OFF, and you are set to yellow/red, lock out will be 10 seconds, and will receive suspect flag once the limit has been reached.
If the target ship gets attacked while having the buff on, you will receive a criminal flag.


The stacks timers are based on the host ship. If the host ships bump timers go away and the ship gets attacked, the bumpers will not receive the criminal flag.

What this means for stations: If a bump party happens, and everybody is set to green, the bump fiasco will resolve itself. In doing so, it will mean that a bump from an outside will have a larger effect due to the target ship not losing energy due to bouncing off the other ships. It also means bump locks get taken care of automatically.


This has no effect in low/null sec, since concord isn't there to enforce this new policy.