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Problem with material numbers?
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Frederick Rommel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2013-09-14 03:06:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Frederick Rommel
I am making a spread sheet and was doing some math with the Production efficiency and the cost of materials of frigates. At perfect material efficiency on a Crucifier for example is 12,760 tritanium. when you add 25% to this you get 15,950. I got on a new character with no skills effecting materials efficiency and the blueprint information says 15,660. This is 290 less than the expected outcome.

Is there a hidden reduction in material efficiency that I am not aware of? am I really bad at math? or is the blueprint system flawed?

also something new that i haven't seen on blueprints before is "extra materials". these numbers don't make sense if they are applied to the missing numbers above but would still like to know what they are.

EDIT: Upon further investigation the supposed 25% reduction in material efficiency at level 5 production efficiency is actually 18.51819%. i still don't understand where this figure comes from.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#2 - 2013-09-14 05:52:37 UTC
Last I checked, Blueprints with extra materials still do not provide accurate requirements when you use show info with a character without Prod Eff 5.

Looking at the bill of materials in the manufacturing dialogues will give you the right information.


It's a bug, might as well add another report to the queue.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2013-09-14 07:37:34 UTC
Production Efficiency waste applies to extra materials, if they also show up in the base materials.

It doesn't display right, in game, when you do a show info on the blueprint, or get a quote.

The numbers on the quote are right, they just cram all the waste onto the base materials, even if it comes from the extra materials.

If you look at the numbers on my site ( https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/ ) you'll get the same numbers when you total everything up, but they're properly divided up.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Frederick Rommel
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-09-14 14:50:07 UTC
So is the extra minerals already included in the base materials?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#5 - 2013-09-14 17:19:08 UTC
The /waste/ for the extra minerals are included with the base materials in the quote for manufacturing.

This is production efficiency waste only, and only if the materials also shows up in the base materials. ME waste doesn't apply.


Extra materials are added to adjust the price of a ship, without changing what you get back when you refine it. So people like me couldn't manufacture thousands before the change happened, then recycle them all afterwards to create minerals from nothing.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#6 - 2013-09-14 18:40:41 UTC
Frederick Rommel wrote:
I got on a new character with no skills effecting materials efficiency and the blueprint information says 15,660. This is 290 less than the expected outcome.

That could be your problem. I've not checked recently, but there was an issue with incorrect amounts without Production Efficiency 5 trained. I don't know if it has been fixed yet.

Is this normal? (Manufacturing)
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/TauCabalander/bug_report_v2.jpg
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
#7 - 2013-09-17 15:26:48 UTC
Of other one given than the skill contained in the DB are necessary to estimate the need in materials

Field Db for production item
- productivityModifier (PM)
- materialModifier (MM)
- wasteFactor (WF)

formula look like :

=ENT(DBbasemineral *CoefSkill*Coefwast+0,5)

CoefSkill-=1,2-(0,04*ProdEfficiency)
Coefwast=1+Bswaste/(1+FactorWaste)
Bswaste=(modulator/(1+FactorWaste))

ProdEfficiency (PE) :Production Efficiency Skill Level
FactorWaste ( ME) : Blueprint Mineral Efficiency Level


i think the modulator are calcula with de material modifier and the waste factor )

exemple for T1 vessel : modulator=0.1

extract data :
typeid 683
groupid 105
typename Bantam Blueprint
baseprice 235 000,00
marketgroupid 261,00
productTypeID 582
productionTime 6000
techLevel 1
researchProductivityTime 120000
researchMaterialTime 120000
researchCopyTime 120000
researchTechTime 90000
productivityModifier 1200
materialModifier 5
wasteFactor 10
chanceOfReverseEngineering 0
maxProductionLimit 30
Nyrak
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-09-17 17:30:05 UTC
Was there a recent change in the time efficiency for blue prints? Beforehand, I used the calculator here and it stated various ammunition prints had zero seconds of waste at sixty seconds. But now the magic number seems to be at 96 using either the above mentioned calculator or at 95 using the Fuzzwork calculator. Looking at various prints, it states my build time is three minutes (out of four minutes) with 60 being the time efficiency number. For this example, I used Carbonized Lead Large.

Industry, Metallurgy, and Research all level 5 and based out of a npc high sec space station.