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Crime & Punishment

 
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Ganking too easy?
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Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#181 - 2013-09-13 18:15:13 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Leto Thule wrote:
My, how this thread got off track. I smell a lockdown...


to be fair, based on the OP it should have been locked a long time ago for lack of content, really.

oh, and/or redundant thread.

and/or duplicate.

i mean, do we really need more threads that are "qq my freighter got ganked, ccp please patch stupid"?


No sir, we do not.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#182 - 2013-09-13 18:59:19 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Ok, I guess sitting there while you take Torpedos up the ass is what you enjoy.


and there was me thinking that was your favourite pass time since this is clearly where the thread originated from.



lol u mad bro.
Dave Stark
#183 - 2013-09-13 19:07:37 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Ok, I guess sitting there while you take Torpedos up the ass is what you enjoy.


and there was me thinking that was your favourite pass time since this is clearly where the thread originated from.



lol u mad bro.


not in the slightest. i'm not the one that made a whole thread about it :)
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#184 - 2013-09-13 19:09:47 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
BTW: I have seen Bomber Bar at work - Bombing the hell out of things is what they do, and they will absolutely Leeroy a sacrifical hull into a bubble to see what's there, and allow the setup of an attack run.
Bombers bombing campers camping gankers ganking snipers sniping bombers... It's the ciiiiiircle of life..! And it nukes us aaaaalll...


you mean, even in null sec people lose a trivial amount of isk (one bomber) to inflict a disproportionate amount of damage upon an enemy. just like in high sec?

say it ain't so!

It ain't so!

Oh, wait. I lied. It is so. Lol

Didja see the results of the BB's Sunday Special last week..? 344 kills, 14+bn ISK destroyed... Trivial losses. Some folks out there still don't know what hit 'em.


Edit:
Though I *will* stipulate it wasn't just pure gankage - Brave Newbies knew they were coming, and lived up to their names. GF.


Well that is precisely the point, isn't it?

Bomber Bar could be shot at flying around in low/null lining up their next target. THAT is what is broken. A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.

Gankers are protected by Concord in high sec while they line up their next kill. This thread is about a mechanism to make that a little less easy for the gankers.
Dave Stark
#185 - 2013-09-13 19:11:06 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.


wrong. again.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#186 - 2013-09-13 19:11:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Ok, I guess sitting there while you take Torpedos up the ass is what you enjoy.


and there was me thinking that was your favourite pass time since this is clearly where the thread originated from.



lol u mad bro.


not in the slightest. i'm not the one that made a whole thread about it :)


You're the one who keeps coming back in a fail attempt to dispute my points. I'd say you were pretty upset about me being right. Ouch, that Torpedo post must've really hurt.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#187 - 2013-09-13 19:12:46 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.


wrong. again.


Prove me wrong. Empty statements remain empty.
Dave Stark
#188 - 2013-09-13 19:13:46 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Ok, I guess sitting there while you take Torpedos up the ass is what you enjoy.


and there was me thinking that was your favourite pass time since this is clearly where the thread originated from.



lol u mad bro.


not in the slightest. i'm not the one that made a whole thread about it :)


You're the one who keeps coming back in a fail attempt to dispute my points. I'd say you were pretty upset about me being right. Ouch, that Torpedo post must've really hurt.


you've yet to be right.
Dave Stark
#189 - 2013-09-13 19:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.


wrong. again.


Prove me wrong. Empty statements remain empty.


what do you mean prove you wrong?
by virtue of combat ships being used to gank ships clearly combat ships haven't been removed from the game. shoot the gankers, or jam them, or any of the myriad of other suggestions that have been suggested....

repeating incorrect statements doesn't make you correct, just so you're aware.
Dave Stark
#190 - 2013-09-13 19:19:42 UTC
i mean, a rail naga can take 3 catalysts off the field before concord arrives in a 0.5 system. possibly 4.
pretty sure jamming ships, even things like griffins, can equip more than one jammer; spread your jams.

it's not even like you need equal numbers to prevent a gank.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#191 - 2013-09-13 19:27:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
This has now become a Dave Stark troll thread, where he is trying to get the thread closed.

The OP raised a question and a very valid one too about whether the kill rights should be adjusted so that the victims of a gank had a monetary value to their kill rights so they could actually have the possibility to get back at the ganker in a meaningful way, this is a perfectly good suggestion and should not be ignored due to a severe amount of trolling. I suggest that the OP takes this to a more appropriate forum, like Features and ideas or speakers corner.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dave Stark
#192 - 2013-09-13 19:30:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
i'm not even trying to get the thread closed.

i'm just pointing out saying that it's impossible to stop high sec ganks is an outright lie.
besides, if i was trolling CCP would have removed my posts and banned me. however i'm still here so it looks like you're wrong, too.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#193 - 2013-09-13 19:49:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
BTW: I have seen Bomber Bar at work - Bombing the hell out of things is what they do, and they will absolutely Leeroy a sacrifical hull into a bubble to see what's there, and allow the setup of an attack run.
Bombers bombing campers camping gankers ganking snipers sniping bombers... It's the ciiiiiircle of life..! And it nukes us aaaaalll...


you mean, even in null sec people lose a trivial amount of isk (one bomber) to inflict a disproportionate amount of damage upon an enemy. just like in high sec?

say it ain't so!

It ain't so!

Oh, wait. I lied. It is so. Lol

Didja see the results of the BB's Sunday Special last week..? 344 kills, 14+bn ISK destroyed... Trivial losses. Some folks out there still don't know what hit 'em.


Edit:
Though I *will* stipulate it wasn't just pure gankage - Brave Newbies knew they were coming, and lived up to their names. GF.


Well that is precisely the point, isn't it?

Bomber Bar could be shot at flying around in low/null lining up their next target. THAT is what is broken. A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.

Gankers are protected by Concord in high sec while they line up their next kill. This thread is about a mechanism to make that a little less easy for the gankers.

You *are* aware that Bombers Bar is just excatly that - a Gank Squad? The only difference is tha they go to Nul so that they can be allowed to use their bombs. Not because they *have* to go, but because they get the most hilarity from the mechanic. That bombs not withstanding, they sometimes set up in Lo-Sec? That also, they line up cloaked so generally *can't* be shot at - until it's far, far too late? IOW, your point is in fact pointless.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#194 - 2013-09-13 19:59:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
BTW: I have seen Bomber Bar at work - Bombing the hell out of things is what they do, and they will absolutely Leeroy a sacrifical hull into a bubble to see what's there, and allow the setup of an attack run.
Bombers bombing campers camping gankers ganking snipers sniping bombers... It's the ciiiiiircle of life..! And it nukes us aaaaalll...


you mean, even in null sec people lose a trivial amount of isk (one bomber) to inflict a disproportionate amount of damage upon an enemy. just like in high sec?

say it ain't so!

It ain't so!

Oh, wait. I lied. It is so. Lol

Didja see the results of the BB's Sunday Special last week..? 344 kills, 14+bn ISK destroyed... Trivial losses. Some folks out there still don't know what hit 'em.


Edit:
Though I *will* stipulate it wasn't just pure gankage - Brave Newbies knew they were coming, and lived up to their names. GF.


Well that is precisely the point, isn't it?

Bomber Bar could be shot at flying around in low/null lining up their next target. THAT is what is broken. A Gank Squad lining up their next victim in High Sec cannot be stopped by anyone or anything unless you are willing to create ganking alts as well.

Gankers are protected by Concord in high sec while they line up their next kill. This thread is about a mechanism to make that a little less easy for the gankers.

You *are* aware that Bombers Bar is just excatly that - a Gank Squad? The only difference is tha they go to Nul so that they can be allowed to use their bombs. Not because they *have* to go, but because they get the most hilarity from the mechanic. That bombs not withstanding, they sometimes set up in Lo-Sec? That also, they line up cloaked so generally *can't* be shot at - until it's far, far too late? IOW, your point is in fact pointless.


Yes, BB is a "gank" squad but they are operating in a Gank Free For All Zone where their victims have precisely the same ability to shoot back after uncloaking as BB does. Or, they can form their own Bomber squads and with due diligence engage BB *at will*.

They cannot fly about a system uncloaked with high percentage of Local aware that they are present yet have local be unable to do anything about it. They cannot uncloak and sit at gates scanning or loading their guns while everyone with their eyes open knows what comes next. That makes ganking too easy.

This above is one reason why Gankers cannot be stopped in hi sec: 99% of the people may be completely aware they are present, but Concord protects them while they line up their next kill. Can they be stopped in one individual's case? No they cannot, simply because they can always bring more dps to the table than any ability to stop them can cut short and they always get the first shot. Jamming? Sure, next time, 8 Catalysts instead of one. Nothing can be made invulnerable when the gankers always get the opener.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#195 - 2013-09-13 20:07:42 UTC
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
[Yes, BB is a "gank" squad but they are operating in a Gank Free For All Zone where their victims have precisely the same ability to shoot back after uncloaking as BB does.

They cannot fly about a system uncloaked with high percentage of Local aware that they are present yet be unable to do anything about it.

This is one reason why Gankers cannot be stopped in low sec. 99% of the people may be completely aware they are present, but even if they are past victims of the gankers they are helpless to engage the gankers more than once. After that, Concord protects them while they line up their next kill.

The point of this original post is that the Kill Rights mechanism put in place to provide some compensation for the victims does nothing.

Ideas to improve the kill rights mechanism would be useful.

Again, you are mistaken. They ALSO do fly about uncloaked. I was with them on their last Sunday Special... No cloakies at all. No one so much as sneezed at us as we sailed from Hi to Lo to Nul. We even crossed other fleets as we moved. Every last mother of us flying T1 Cruisers. Your belief abuot what happens in non-Hi-Sec is lacking.

OTOH, I have absolutely suffered losses whilst moving about in Hi-Sec. Usually at the behest of a former victim, who correctly and accurately got their vengance on me by means of the current KR system. Usually by means of opening them up to all, but not always. My KB will show the truth of this, if you're interested in looking it up.

Which tells me that the system, as is, works just fine.

You just need to learn how to play, is all.
Dave Stark
#196 - 2013-09-13 20:09:09 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
You just need to learn how to play, is all.

oh god, what have you done?!?
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#197 - 2013-09-13 20:15:40 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
You just need to learn how to play, is all.

oh god, what have you done?!?

Hit the reset button on the thread..? Ooops! Oops
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#198 - 2013-09-13 20:16:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
This has now become a Dave Stark troll thread, where he is trying to get the thread closed.

The OP raised a question and a very valid one too about whether the kill rights should be adjusted so that the victims of a gank had a monetary value to their kill rights so they could actually have the possibility to get back at the ganker in a meaningful way, this is a perfectly good suggestion and should not be ignored due to a severe amount of trolling. I suggest that the OP takes this to a more appropriate forum, like Features and ideas or speakers corner.


No worries Drac.

The point of posting here was to get the Gankers to respond and respond they did with the usual defenses of a status quo that benefits them.

They alternatively say things are fine, L2Play and then concede when they are in a bragging mood that nothing can be done to stop them apparently unaware that this is a program that they are running whose code determines what can and cannot be done.

The point of this original post is that the Kill Rights mechanism put in place to provide some compensation for the victims does nothing. I don't want to stop the ganking of bot miners running a harvest macro and I made a post supportive of Spine Rippers pogrom against AFK Miners. What I came here to do is get the *gankers* to make how clear it is they cannot be stopped, and they have done nothing other than confirm it.

Thanks for your support.
Aldus Dumbledore
The Covenant of Blood
#199 - 2013-09-13 20:21:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aldus Dumbledore
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
[Yes, BB is a "gank" squad but they are operating in a Gank Free For All Zone where their victims have precisely the same ability to shoot back after uncloaking as BB does.

They cannot fly about a system uncloaked with high percentage of Local aware that they are present yet be unable to do anything about it.

This is one reason why Gankers cannot be stopped in low sec. 99% of the people may be completely aware they are present, but even if they are past victims of the gankers they are helpless to engage the gankers more than once. After that, Concord protects them while they line up their next kill.

The point of this original post is that the Kill Rights mechanism put in place to provide some compensation for the victims does nothing.

Ideas to improve the kill rights mechanism would be useful.

Again, you are mistaken. They ALSO do fly about uncloaked. I was with them on their last Sunday Special... No cloakies at all. No one so much as sneezed at us as we sailed from Hi to Lo to Nul. We even crossed other fleets as we moved. Every last mother of us flying T1 Cruisers. Your belief abuot what happens in non-Hi-Sec is lacking.

OTOH, I have absolutely suffered losses whilst moving about in Hi-Sec. Usually at the behest of a former victim, who correctly and accurately got their vengance on me by means of the current KR system. Usually by means of opening them up to all, but not always. My KB will show the truth of this, if you're interested in looking it up.

Which tells me that the system, as is, works just fine.

You just need to learn how to play, is all.


Please re-read my post. I did not say that they do not fly about uncloaked. I said that they cannot fly around uncloaked *with a high percentage of local aware and for local to be unable to attack them as they are protected by Concord, OR that if they are cloaked that their targets cannot shoot at them until BB gets the first shot*.

There's an important difference there.

In High Sec gankers are protected by Concord while they line up their next kill. If the Kill Rights mechanism was increased a tad in severity that protection would be *less* not *removed*.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#200 - 2013-09-13 20:25:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Aldus Dumbledore wrote:
[Yes, BB is a "gank" squad but they are operating in a Gank Free For All Zone where their victims have precisely the same ability to shoot back after uncloaking as BB does.

They cannot fly about a system uncloaked with high percentage of Local aware that they are present yet be unable to do anything about it.

This is one reason why Gankers cannot be stopped in low sec. 99% of the people may be completely aware they are present, but even if they are past victims of the gankers they are helpless to engage the gankers more than once. After that, Concord protects them while they line up their next kill.

The point of this original post is that the Kill Rights mechanism put in place to provide some compensation for the victims does nothing.

Ideas to improve the kill rights mechanism would be useful.

Again, you are mistaken. They ALSO do fly about uncloaked. I was with them on their last Sunday Special... No cloakies at all. No one so much as sneezed at us as we sailed from Hi to Lo to Nul. We even crossed other fleets as we moved. Every last mother of us flying T1 Cruisers. Your belief abuot what happens in non-Hi-Sec is lacking.

OTOH, I have absolutely suffered losses whilst moving about in Hi-Sec. Usually at the behest of a former victim, who correctly and accurately got their vengance on me by means of the current KR system. Usually by means of opening them up to all, but not always. My KB will show the truth of this, if you're interested in looking it up.

Which tells me that the system, as is, works just fine.

You just need to learn how to play, is all.


Please re-read my post. I did not say that they do not fly about uncloaked. I said that they cannot fly around uncloaked *with a high percentage of local aware and for local to be unable to attack them as they are protected by Concord*.

There's an important difference there.
Hand wavium does't make you any closer to understanding how things work. OF COURSE a high percentage of local knew we were there. Dur! In Lo and Nul, you have NO CHOICE but to pay attention to Local. Did you also fail to read the bit where I mention '...crossing other fleets'..? Not only did they know we were present, but they were already fleeted up. Concord's presence or absence is kinda beside the point. Despite the technical ability to fire on us, they did not.